My amp is not as loud as it should be.

Patricide

OK folks, i have myself a 575 watt ashdown klystron and a 1X15 abm cab(300 watts). I noticed for a while that my bass amp was always barley able to keep up with my guitarists spider 2(120 watt, 2X10 iirc).

I just thought it was the way that the 15 inch speakers need to be elevated to throw out there sound and cause it was on the ground that was the problem. However at a recent gig i was playing a fender rumble 100 watt with a 1X15 and it wasa about as twice as loud as the guitar.

Am i doing somthing wrong here, im pluging the head straight into the cab using a patch cable(there are 2 outs , and you can use either speakon or regular cables) If i use speakon would it be louder or some kind of cable that goes from both outs or somthing? I have a 4X10 on order so il have all the volume i need soon but i have a few gigs coming up and i want to get enough volume to keep up with my guitarist in the mean time.

Any ideas thoughts, anything?

Dord

Patricide wrote: »

OK folks, i have myself a 575 watt ashdown klystron and a 1X15 abm cab(300 watts). I noticed for a while that my bass amp was always barley able to keep up with my guitarists spider 2(120 watt, 2X10 iirc).

I just thought it was the way that the 15 inch speakers need to be elevated to throw out there sound and cause it was on the ground that was the problem. However at a recent gig i was playing a fender rumble 100 watt with a 1X15 and it wasa about as twice as loud as the guitar.

Am i doing somthing wrong here, im pluging the head straight into the cab using a patch cable(there are 2 outs , and you can use either speakon or regular cables) If i use speakon would it be louder or some kind of cable that goes from both outs or somthing? I have a 4X10 on order so il have all the volume i need soon but i have a few gigs coming up and i want to get enough volume to keep up with my guitarist in the mean time.

Any ideas thoughts, anything?

You should be using a speaker cable for a start. There is a difference between regular instrument cables and speaker cables, you can actually damage the amp by using an instrument cable to connect the head and cab(s).

bat boy

Joe Robot wrote: »

You should be using a speaker cable for a start. There is a difference between regular instrument cables and speaker cables, you can actually damage the amp by using an instrument cable to connect the head and cab(s).

You wont damage the amp but the patch cable might burnout on you. Get speakon cables seeing as you have speakon connections. Theres no real difference between speakon and normal speaker cable but speakon are more secure because they clip into the connections, so less chance of stuff accidentally coming loose when yer playin

feylya

What impedance is the cab and what's the impedance on the amp output? And is it just getting drowned out in the band or is it quiet when you play it on it's own?

-=al=-

whats the difference in sepaker cables to instrument cables,

i use a speaker cable to conect my head and cab alright, they jsut seem a little thicker, are they just insulated better cause there the same TRS jack

Patricide

The cab is 8 ohms the head is 4 ohms. Correct me if im wrong here but the way the cab is 8 ohms its only running at 150 of its 300 watts?

Before you ask, its not the way its eq'd, The problem is just volume, it cuts through fine at low volumes but my drummer is a heavy hitter so its just a problem with volume.

feylya

Yup, looks like it's only pushing 150W although, I always get confused with impedences on bass amps

Patricide

yup,next question is there any way to make it push more than the 150?

Doctor J

First things first, get a good speaker cable as suggested.

Second, pay attention to where you place your amp and where you stand in context to it. You're better off standing a few metres away from your amp, in my experience, and not in the line of fire of the guitar amp. If you're standing on top of your amp you're just not going to hear it and every bass player does it, huddled politely to the side of their amp. The frequencies your guitar playing friend puts out are largely directional, so most of the volume will be wherever the the speaker is pointing. Is that where you're standing? A lot of the frequencies you're putting out travel through walls, through children, through cars, etc but the frequencies you'll be able to hear clearly are also directional, so if the speaker isn't pointing in your direction then you're not going to hear anything but low end fog and placement of a bass amp makes a huge difference to how it sounds in a room. The ABm 1x15 is well capable of putting it out clearly. As you're playing, move around, you'll see how the low frequencies are loudest in corners. Experiment with where your amp goes and where you go, you'll find you probably need to turn down.

IIRC, with an 8ohm 300W cab and a 4ohm head, you get about 240W into the cab and that should be ****ing loads. I've got an ABM 300w head and a 1x15 300W ABM cab and I've happily been able to hear myself against a Mesa Dual Rec, a pair of Ashdown Fallen Angels, anything. I've done countless gigs with it without ever needing to go through the PA. Someday I'll get a 2x10 to go with it but that's purely a vanity thing, I can't justify it for volume reasons cos I don't actually need it. What you have is putting out a seriously damaging amount of volume as it is.

Beecher

-=al=- wrote: »

whats the difference in sepaker cables to instrument cables,

Guitar cables are 'signal cables' and only have to handle very tiny currents, and must be shielded to prevent noise getting into the system. All the cables between the guitar and the amp, including any between effects and any in the amp's effects loop, need to be this type.

Speaker cables are 'power cables' and need to handle large currents, but don't need shielding.

You can't safely use a guitar cable for a speaker cable, because the fine conductors in this type of cable won't be able to stand the high currents and may simply melt - or damage the insulation and short out. There is also a risk to the amp even if the cable survives - because a shielded cable has quite a lot of internal capacitance, it can interfere with the correct loading of the amp.

You can safely use a speaker cable as guitar cable, but you will get a terrible hum and buzz problem because there is no shielding.

Parsley

You won't be getting the full 575 watts until you add another 8 Ohm cab. Currently the head's only running at 8 Ohms, so it isn't putting out the full 575 watts. Get another 8 Ohm cab, connect it in parallel, and that's give a resistance of 4 Ohms, and it's run at 575 watts. Also, a proper speaker cable would REALLY help!

Patricide

Ok folks, after a few minutes searching i see lots and lots of cables on thomann and musicstore but i dont have a clue what the hell is the one i want, anyone give me a hand here?

Also J im iv just about eq'd this thing every way and moved it to god knows how many different spots, i dont stand in front of it when im playing and its facing out to the crowd. Besides this the places im playing are cramped enough by the time the full band is on the stage so i dont have a lot of options available to me. The thing i dont understand is when a 100 fender rumble can be physicly louder when placed anywhere in a room, it just boggles my mind.

Also iv ordered the abm 4x10 at 8 ohms from guitarbargains, i was just told there it wont be arriving till the end of febuary....worst delivery time every seeing as i ordered at the start of december .

Beecher

Patricide wrote: »

Ok folks, after a few minutes searching i see lots and lots of cables on thomann and musicstore but i dont have a clue what the hell is the one i want, anyone give me a hand here?

You'd want something like this.

Patricide

K, would it be better to get a speakon cable?

unclebill98

A speakon cable...

Here https://www.musicstore.de/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/MusicStore-MusicStoreShop-Site/en_EN/-/EUR/ViewProductDetail-Start;pgid=hfiS6SfaObm00000000000000000087sGK3a?ProductRef=ACC0000917-006%40MusicStore-MusicStoreShop&JumpTo=OfferList


your head can give out over 300w. Not using the correct lead is just plain dangerous.

The stupid thing about Ashdown cabs are there lack of thru speakon connections on the back of the cabs.

So even when you get the 4x10 and 1x15 together you can only run the speakon into one cab then you must get the correct speaker cable to run from the 4x10 to the 1x15. Like the one mentioned by beecher.

Patricide

Eh? a bit over my head there, i have 2 speakon outs going from my head, why wouldnt i just be able to use a speakon cable? (sorry bout having to be spoonfed here lads, but better to get this right so i dont have to ask again 12 months down the line)

unclebill98

Ok,

Is this the exact model you have?

http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.asp?section=classic&ID=179

If so, its a mono bass amp kicking out 575w @ 4ohms.

Your running it into this,

http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.asp?ID=15 or
http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.asp?section=abm&ID=12

both cabs are listed as 300w @ 8ohms.

So, Ashdown as usual are **** at there specs on the site. But i have the AMB EvoII. Its the same unit as yours less the triode tubes and some other little functions. My head kicks out 280w @ 8ohms.

So your head into your cab = 280w max...thats only achieved when the volume is at ten and your never going to do that.

Sooo, to get the full 575w from your head you need to add another 8ohm cab. Or a high wattage 4ohm cab on its own.

If you got this 4x10,

http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.asp?section=abm&ID=14

rated at 600w @ 8ohms and used the 1x15,

Now, you run one speackon into 1x15 and then patch the 1x15 into the 4x10.

Now your running your rig at 4ohms, your head gives out 575 @ this stage into to cabs that are rated at 900w together.

But your never going to achieve the 575w, due to your not going to push your rig that hard. But you'll have alot of nice head room and you'll not need to push that rig too hard to get to a high volume/tone.

Also, a 1x15 cab is meant to be on the ground, so you can feel that sound. 4x10 need to be more facing you to get the high end tone. So, try out a few differant places to stand to get the sweet spot for you.

Dear god I hope I ain't wrong about all that....Savman????

Patricide

Yup that all sounds correct, the question is, why not just run 2 speakon cables out into the 2 different cabs, does this kill the wattage or somthing, if so how?

unclebill98

Its only a mono head. Not designed to do that. Only way to get the full 575 is to link the cabs as i've said above. Or run it into one 4ohm cab.

-=al=-

is there any particular way to hook up a tsl100?

im pretty sure i chcked before a few times and it was aok, theres 2 ways to hook it up but thats the way i do it, its aok yes?

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j235/alsfotos/cabinput.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j235/alsfotos/DSCF1738.jpg

theres the pics

Patricide

unclebill98 wrote: »

Its only a mono head. Not designed to do that. Only way to get the full 575 is to link the cabs as i've said above. Or run it into one 4ohm cab.

ahh i get it now, yup. Why do they even put 2 speakon outs at the back though, seems like a waste.

Parsley

Patricide wrote: »

ahh i get it now, yup. Why do they even put 2 speakon outs at the back though, seems like a waste.

I would've thought you'd run one from each of the speakon outs... I know it's mono, but then why are there two outs? Connecting one cab to the other cab like yer man (can't remember his name) is describing, AS FAR AS I KNOW would be connecting them in SERIES, which isn't what you want. They need to be connected in parallel. But, I could be wrong about that.

Doctor J

Just ask Ashdown how they recommend you run your cabs

http://www.ashdownmusic.com/contact/index.asp

Either way, they'll tell you that running your cabs in serial (ie - one cab hangs the another cab which is connected to the amp) will double the load, meaning a 16 ohm load and even less volume for you. Running them parallel (ie both plugged into a seperate output of the amp individually) will halve the load, meaning a four ohm load and a four ohm amp, which is what you're looking for.

There's a good explanation of this in the resources sticky, folks.

unclebill98

Doctor J wrote: »

Just ask Ashdown how they recommend you run your cabs

http://www.ashdownmusic.com/contact/index.asp

Either way, they'll tell you that running your cabs in serial (ie - one cab hangs the another cab which is connected to the amp) will double the load, meaning a 16 ohm load and even less volume for you. Running them parallel (ie both plugged into a seperate output of the amp individually) will halve the load, meaning a four ohm load and a four ohm amp, which is what you're looking for.

There's a good explanation of this in the resources sticky, folks.

Just some feedback on contacting Ashdown....don't bother.

I've a stack for almost 18months and I am still waiting for them to get back to me about what exactly are the inputs called on the back of the cabs, cause its a great idea not say it on the cab :rolleyes:

I've email Ampeg and I get a answer in less than 24hrs. Ashdowns customer service is shockingly ****e. Even ordered covers for my rig....5 months before the arrived. Which is still better than MusicMaker, for whom I am still waiting on a phone call to tell me they have them

As mentioned above, linking to have it running at 4ohms.

Doctor J

I found Ashdown very prompt with their responses, they've been fine to deal with.

unclebill98

Doctor J wrote: »

I found Ashdown very prompt with their responses, they've been fine to deal with.

Darn you

The Boarder Man

Patricide wrote: »

OK folks, i have myself a 575 watt ashdown klystron and a 1X15 abm cab(300 watts). I noticed for a while that my bass amp was always barley able to keep up with my guitarists spider 2(120 watt, 2X10 iirc).

Another consideration here is that you have to take into account the different frequency responses of bass amps and guitar amps when comparing them.
AFAIK bass amps have a much flatter response than guitar amps. The human ear is much more sensitive to frequencies around the middle of the audible range then those at the extremeties. Hence a guitar amp emitting mostly in this centre range will sound far louder for a given power than a bass amp would at the same power. I guess that's why bass amps generally have higher power ratings.

This is also worth a read:
http://www.guitarnuts.com/amps/myths.php

Patricide

got my 4X10, mwahahaha LOUDNESS!!!

Parsley

Did you say.... LOUDNESS?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRJ4Re8jKWU