Yet another roundabout situation!!!

j1979p

OK, what happens when you want to take the 3rd exit and you are in the right hand lane? You would think that it would be ok to indicate left and leave the roundabout (as it says in the book). But what happens if somebody is coming up on your left (at speed)? Should you wait for him to pass and look for a gap?

Check the picture attached with my route shown in red and another car shown in blue. Area of danger marked by the yellow circle.


I can imagine that, for all they're worth, roundabouts could be a cause for major accidents with people trying to change lanes all the time, cutting across people and all without traffic lights (in most cases)!

Have I missed something?

Tails142

Blue car must yield to traffic coming from his right, i.e. red car.

Lots of people approach roundabouts quickly and just look as though they're not going to stop. I would continue on if I was the blue car irregardless of whether he looks like he's going to stop or not. I would probably put the boot down too to avoid a collision.

j1979p

No, what if you have passed the blue car (I can't do animations!) but he is now behind you on your left. How do you cross over? You are going to have to slow slightly when coming off the roundabout too. Very dangerous if you ask me!

Leeby

The way I see it, the second you get past the turn that the blue car is coming from, you should immediately indicate and get in the left hand lane, so you're in the left hand lane when you get to the turn off you want to take. That way the blue car would never be on your left, Does that make sense?

j1979p

Leeby wrote: »

Does that make sense?

Unfortunately not, check out the updated attachment. There are so many situations that could arise on a roundabout. Now there is a car (brown line) on your left exiting into the same lane as you. If he is coming up fast on your left, who is to be first into the lane? Who should slow down? How can this mess be organised so that there is no honking of horns going to happen?
No wonder many learners fear roundabouts!!!

Mad_Max

There are sooo many situations that can occur on a roundabout that you will never IMO know all of them and what to do in each case.

The advice above about when you pass the exit before your's to indicate your intentions and move over if possible is how i negotiate roundabouts.

I would say situations like your last animation would be rare, as you would be far enough ahead of the brown car as he has to wait on you because you are on the roundabout.. or he gets ahead of you in which case there wouldnt be a problem.

Wishbone Ash

As others have said, these situations shouldn't occur if you are making proper progress (unless the others are in Formula 1 cars ).

j1979p

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

As others have said, these situations shouldn't occur if you are making proper progress (unless the others are in Formula 1 cars ).

All good and true in theory. But, since I rarely use roundabouts and am a learner of only 3 months, I would like to ask you this:

Have you never had a situation where you were blocked temporarily from exiting out of a roundabout in the right hand lane? Or are roundabouts so well designed that you have yet to encounter this?

Wishbone Ash

j1979p wrote: »

Have you never had a situation where you were blocked temporarily from exiting out of a roundabout in the right hand lane? Or are roundabouts so well designed that you have yet to encounter this?

No - I would generally be exiting in the left lane.

EDIT: BTW - your attachment in post #5 won't work for me so I can't really comment on it.

subway

all the scenarios you have lsited, the other car should yield to you as you are alraedy on the roundabout, that puts you ahead of them.
unless they accelrate violently (roundabouts are too small to get up to speed usually) they wont ever undertake you.
so as long as you indicate there will be room for you to turn off.

if they are undertaking you, they are going too fast and driving dangerously, unless you are going abnormally slow (<10 kph)

Michael Collins

Also the car in the left lane shouldn't overtake you if they were sticking to the rules precisely, as you're not supposed to overtake on the left. (Except when the car on the right is turning right, or in slow moving lanes of traffic.)

tolosenc

Shouldn't all traffic in the outside lane be taking the next exit? Thus allowing all drivers on the inside lane to turn left without being hit into. And if the guy does hit you, it's his fault.

Wishbone Ash

obl wrote: »

Shouldn't all traffic in the outside lane be taking the next exit? Thus allowing all drivers on the inside lane to turn left without being hit into. And if the guy does hit you, it's his fault.

'Outside' and 'inside' are inappropriate terms to describe roundabout lanes. It could be rightly argued that the right lane is the 'inside' lane as it's nearer the centre and the 'outside' lane is the left lane as it on the outside of the roundabout.

Why not use 'left', 'centre' and 'right'? No chance of misinterpretation!

flogen

obl wrote: »

Shouldn't all traffic in the outside lane be taking the next exit? Thus allowing all drivers on the inside lane to turn left without being hit into. And if the guy does hit you, it's his fault.

AFAIK it's perfectly fine to be in the left lane if you're exiting on the 1st or 2nd exit, so not necessarily.

As for the OP's concerns they seem very unlikely. For a start in the second image, if the Brown car came onto the roundabout then Blue car wouldn't - or at least shouldn't.

Secondly it assumes that there is no car in the left lane where the Red car "enters" the roundabout (Which would stop the Brown car from entering) and thirdly it's unlikely that the Brown car would come onto the roundabout at the same time as the Red car was passing it and then remain level with it al the way around.

bonkey

I think the OP is asking the following question...

You enter a roundabout, correctly taking the right (i.e. closest to center) lane, as you are taking the third exit (assuming a classic 4-exit, as diagrammed).

At some point during your traversal of teh roundabout, you should change from the right to the left lane. Even if this is not the case, you must still cross the left lane to get off the roundabout.

At the point where you wish to enter or cross the left lane, there is a car, also already on the roundabout, in said left lane.

Who has right of way?

The point of contention here, as I understand it, is that both cars are on the roundabout, so its not a case of "the person entering yields".

No matter which way you look at it, if you're in the right lane, there will come a point where your car must enter the left lane...and there is nothing which prevents a car legally and correctly being exactly in that spot, or dangerously close to same.

j1979p

Exactly Bonkey. Not only nothing which prevents the car legally, but nothing in the design of the roundabout or its rules that prevents this scenario. On a busy roundabout a car going past 2 exits in the left lane will easily catch up with the car in the right lane slowing down to take the exit. No?

Wishbone Ash

j1979p wrote: »

On a busy roundabout a car going past 2 exits in the left lane will easily catch up with the car in the right lane slowing down to take the exit. No?

A car shouldn't legally be in the left lane if it has just passed two exits. It should have been in the right lane (except in exceptional circumstances).

j1979p

Yeah, u really need to see the attachment alright Wishbone!

Basically, I'm thinking of the situation where both cars are taking the same exit onto a one lane road but one car is in the left and one in the right. I guess there aren't that many roundabouts where 2 lanes converge into one anyway are there?

Michael Collins

j1979p wrote: »

I guess there aren't that many roundabouts where 2 lanes converge into one anyway are there?

Good few around Dublin anyway, where one lane off is a bus lane.

J_R

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

A car shouldn't legally be in the left lane if it has just passed two exits. It should have been in the right lane (except in exceptional circumstances).

Attached photo is taken from the old British Highway Code.

If the blue car marked "X" wishes to go straight ahead, 3rd exit to him, he stays in the left lane and exits, after legally passing 2 exits.

Back to original query,

j1979p wrote: »

OK, what happens when you want to take the 3rd exit and you are in the right hand lane? You would think that it would be ok to indicate left and leave the roundabout (as it says in the book). But what happens if somebody is coming up on your left (at speed)? Should you wait for him to pass and look for a gap?

If someone is coming up at speed what can you do but let him go, by either slowing down, cancelling the indicator, indicate right and going around again.

No sane person would argue who has a right of way with a speeding car.

seamus

Provided that the red car was indicating correctly, the blue car failed to yield to traffic on the roundabout - he shouldn't have entered at all. Just go, bull on and take your exit. If he strikes you, he is at fault for failing to yield. Use a bit of sense though. If he's definitely going to collide with you if you turn, obviously just brake and beep.

I've encountered this a couple of times at Liffey Valley. I'm taking the third exit, some idiot enters the roundabout at the first exit in the left-hand to take the fourth exit (from my perspective) and screeches and beeps when I correctly pull across him to take my exit.

Yes, using the left-hand lane to go right is OK at this particular roundabout, but all traffic is still required to yield to traffic already on the roundabout.

j1979p

J_R wrote: »

Attached photo is taken from the old British Highway Code.

If the blue car marked "X" wishes to go straight ahead, 3rd exit to him, he stays in the left lane and exits, after legally passing 2 exits.

Well I guess this answers a question posed a while back about the Swrods roundabout and taking the third exit to the Pavillions shopping center.
For get the middle lane, just stay left!!!

Or is does this rule only apply for roundabouts with 2 lanes

j1979p

seamus wrote: »

I've encountered this a couple of times at Liffey Valley. I'm taking the third exit, some idiot enters the roundabout at the first exit in the left-hand to take the fourth exit (from my perspective) and screeches and beeps when I correctly pull across him to take my exit.

Thanks for providing a real life instance of this happening! Like I said, no wonder learners fear roundabouts!!!

Wishbone Ash

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

A car shouldn't legally be in the left lane if it has just passed two exits. It should have been in the right lane (except in exceptional circumstances).

J_R wrote: »

Attached photo is taken from the old British Highway Code.

If the blue car marked "X" wishes to go straight ahead, 3rd exit to him, he stays in the left lane and exits, after legally passing 2 exits

I did say "except in exceptional circumstances" in my original post to cover such situations.

Just to clarify - j1979p's link won't work for me despite trying it several times. If it features a similar roundabout as the one in the old British Highway code then my remarks may be disregarded. I presumed he may have been referring to a standard four exit NSEW roundabout.

J_R

j1979p wrote: »

Well I guess this answers a question posed a while back about the Swrods roundabout and taking the third exit to the Pavillions shopping center.
For get the middle lane, just stay left!!!

Or is does this rule only apply for roundabouts with 2 lanes

Have not a clue about the Swords roundabout, did not see the post.

That diagram refers to that specific situation. A nice standard 2 lane roundabout. It can not be taken and superimposed on some crazy convoluted roundabout designed by Dublin road engineers.

If the Swords roundabout has different number of lanes on the road entering/exiting, lanes merging/splitting then the road markings must be used to guide. Different rules may well apply - rule book even says so.

The new Rules of the Road are quite clear.Irish Roundabouts and very similar British Roundabouts

Wishbone Ash

J_R wrote: »

Have not a clue about the Swords roundabout, did not see the post.

That diagram refers to that specific situation. A nice standard 2 lane roundabout. It can not be taken and superimposed on some crazy convoluted roundabout designed by Dublin road engineers.

If the Swords roundabout has different number of lanes on the road entering/exiting, lanes merging/splitting then the road markings must be used to guide. Different rules may well apply - rule book even says so.

The new Rules of the Road are quite clear.Irish Roundabouts and very similar British Roundabouts

In fairness J R, the roundabout referred to in Swords is a poor example as the road markings differ from the standard. For example, while travelling south on the R132 and wishing to take the 3rd exit, the signage indicates that one may use the left lane even though the 3rd exit is past "12 O'Clock".