Advice RE: Gas Bill

senordingdong

Whilst digging up the garden awhile ago, I accidentally hit the gas pipe with the pitch fork. I called the folk out to turn it off yada yada yada but something got me thinhking.
I didn't strike particularly deep with my pitch fork, we're talking four or five inches here, and I punctured the pipe. Am I alone in thinking that a gas line should be alot deeper then that?
I've asked around and everyone tells me that by law it is supposed to be too deep for conventiel garden tools to be able to hit it, but no-on can get me any 'hard' proof.

Eventually the bill arrived and they are trying to charge a 'flat rate' of about €700 for two men to come to my home, cut out the punctured piece of the pipe, and insert a new piece in it's place. I argued this on the phone and the lady tried to tell me that it's a flat rate charge. I intend to fight this.

But more importantly, I also recieved a bill for €200 for all the gas that pissed out when I punctured the pipe. I argued that I should not have to pay it because the pipe was too shallow and therefor, their fault.

I'm just wondering, am I correct with this or do I not have a leg to stand on?

dudara

From Sustainable Energy Ireland

Gas pipework is installed in a dwelling in order to convey gas in a safe manner from the meter to the various appliances, which may be installed both inside and outside the dwelling. When installing gas pipework the following guidelines should be adhered to.
• All gas mains are to be installed by the gas company or their appointed contractor.
• All gas main trenches shall be excavated to a depth to allow a minimum cover for the gas main of at least 750 mm.
• All gas main trenches shall be excavated to the width of the outside diameter of the gas pipe plus 300 mm.
• Where it is necessary to cross or run close to any other service, a minimum clearance of 250 mm is recommended.
• Marker tape should be placed over all gas mains and services.

So it looks like the pipe should be 300 mm (30 cm) or a foot underground.

This is from the Health and Safety Executive in the UK

A gas main should normally be laid with a minimum depth of cover of 750 mm in a road or verge and 600 mm in a footpath.

A gas service pipe should normally be laid with a minimum depth of cover of 375 mm in private ground and 450 mm in footpaths and highways.

Padraig Mor

dudara wrote: »

From Sustainable Energy Ireland




So it looks like the pipe should be 300 mm (30 cm) or a foot underground.

This is from the Health and Safety Executive in the UK

"All gas main trenches shall be excavated to a depth to allow a minimum cover for the gas main of at least 750 mm"

Looks like it's 750mm (2.5 feet).

Sam Vimes

Padraig Mor wrote: »

"All gas main trenches shall be excavated to a depth to allow a minimum cover for the gas main of at least 750 mm"

Looks like it's 750mm (2.5 feet).

it is. the figure dudara mentioned was the width of the trench, not the depth

senordingdong

So roughly two and a half feet..thanks folks.

dudara

Commander Vimes wrote: »

it is. the figure dudara mentioned was the width of the trench, not the depth

You're right - well spotted. Sorry for the mistake. I was thinking that a foot seemed shallow, but I presumed that I had read it correctly. 2.5 feet makes much more sense

_feedback_

Not sure about the charges for the repair, but can't understand how they are billing you for the gas that escaped. The only gas they can bill you for is what passes through the meter. How do they come up with a figure of €200 for what escaped??!

johnny_adidas

elviscostello wrote: »

Not sure about the charges for the repair, but can't understand how they are billing you for the gas that escaped. The only gas they can bill you for is what passes through the meter. How do they come up with a figure of €200 for what escaped??!

meter is probably at the front garden and this is the line from the meter into the house i would assume


OP, would there be any way you could get a suitably qualified plumber to do the work instead? i dont know if they would they have the means to turn off the gas at the meter before the leak, but im assuming its off now or is it still leaking out. as you've mentioned its only a matter of removing the old pipe and replacing with 2 fittings and new pipe.


edit:sorry just re-read the original post and i deduce the work is already done

senordingdong

Haha, yeah.
You got the nail on the head though, with the meter thing.

The really sick part is that when I called the emergency number...they said they were sending someone out immediatly.
An hour later a guy arrives, he walks to the end of the garden, opens up the box with the meter in it, then turns a handle. Turning this handle, turned off the gas.


Then he left.

I mean ffs, I could have done that, so that when they do send someone ou, the problem would actually get fixed.

Guy:Incognito

Well if the meter is at the front of the garden this is not Bord gais's issue. Whoever put in the heating put the pipe along the garden.

Bord gais install up to and including the meter, after that the plumber conects to the meter and runs it to the boiler/appliances.

senordingdong wrote: »

The really sick part is that when I called the emergency number...they said they were sending someone out immediatly.
An hour later a guy arrives, he walks to the end of the garden, opens up the box with the meter in it, then turns a handle. Turning this handle, turned off the gas.

.

Yeah thats all that will even happen when you ring the emergency number. They hear "leak" and just send someone out to knock it off.

2 stroke

senordingdong wrote: »

I mean ffs, I could have done that, so that when they do send someone ou, the problem would actually get fixed.

You should have done that. Everybody should know how to turn off their gas and water. Electricty has its own failsafe and you shouldn't interfere unless suitably qualified.
I'm shocked that they repaired the pipe instead of insisting you get a new pipe installed at the propper depth.

senordingdong

2 stroke wrote: »

You should have done that.

2 stroke wrote:

you shouldn't interfere unless suitably qualified.

Okaaaaaay.

Anyway, I imagine they didn't insist on re-laying the pipes as they would probably then have to do the entire street and god knows how many other places they did a half assed job like this.

parsi

If shutting off at the meter stopped the leak then your beef is with whoever lay the pipes on from the meter. As mentioned before BG are not responsible for the piping from the meter to your home (same with ESB) and a relevant installer would have certified that the work was done correctly etc etc.

Beta Ray Bill

this story really is quite shocking, you could have been seriously hurt had hitting the pipe created a spark.

if it is as you say only a couple of inches below the ground and they are looking for money off you I would first find out who laid the pipe. IE was it Bord Gas or was it some contractor or plumber etc. Second I would be on to my solicitor straight away. explain what happened and see if you have a case I'm assuming you would seen as the danger you had been put it (what if it had have been a child messing in the garden that could have done that). Get your solicitor to send the party at fault a letter telling them you intend taking them to court over it.

Then they'll get the message. If they are truly at fault they will back up straight away and most likly pay you off not to take them to court. I know of similar situations my co workers and friends have been in and once they had a solicitor threatening to take them to court they cough up and say sorry. Nice talking with them and trying to make an agreement will never work, you could be on the phone all day with these large companies and get no where. if you really want justice you will have to take them to or threaten to them to court.

Graham

senordingdong

parsi wrote: »

If shutting off at the meter stopped the leak then your beef is with whoever lay the pipes on from the meter. As mentioned before BG are not responsible for the piping from the meter to your home (same with ESB) and a relevant installer would have certified that the work was done correctly etc etc.

Really?
I would have assumed BG would be directly involved with it.
Oh well.

In fairness Graham, it was only a domestic pipe, putting a lighter to it was no worse then putting a lighter to a can of deoderant.

Cabaal

senordingdong wrote: »

In fairness Graham, it was only a domestic pipe, putting a lighter to it was no worse then putting a lighter to a can of deoderant.

which isn';t at all recommended, its possible for a can of deodorant to explode if the flame goes into the can

Beta Ray Bill

senordingdong wrote: »

In fairness Graham, it was only a domestic pipe, putting a lighter to it was no worse then putting a lighter to a can of deoderant.

Gas in a confined space IE a pipe would be extremely hazardous, (very Explosive)

and Deodorant burns because of the alcohol content. gas would burn a lot hotter and quicker its far more combustible.

I'd be exceptionally annoyed if I were you.

senordingdong

Er....

2 stroke

senordingdong wrote: »

In fairness Graham, it was only a domestic pipe, putting a lighter to it was no worse then putting a lighter to a can of deoderant.

Well maybe a bloody big can of deodorant.

Well if the meter is at the front of the garden this is not Bord gais's issue. Whoever put in the heating put the pipe along the garden.

This is more than likely true, but it is possible that bordgas did the instalation.
When gas was extended to the blanchardstown area 1992/1993, bord gas were offering deals to convert existing heating systems to gas. This may have happened in other areas. Bordgas probably subcontracted the work but they were the one that charged for the instalation (could be paid off on gas bill if I remember correctly.