Getting Screwed?

LadyJ

Started working for these people in October. It's a courier company. We all had a couple of weeks off over Christmas and came back on the 2nd of January.
I had exams on the 7th,8th and 9th so had booked these days off well in advance. Now I'm told I won't be paid for them as this was "on my own time" and blah blah blah, something about the holiday period.

Will have to clarify exactly what it means but surely I'm entitle to this money. Any reason why I wouldn't be? I have booked no other days off since starting.
I'm really pissed off as this means I will only get anout 150euros next week which is really mad. Can this be right?

biko

Not everyone get hols paid, depends on your form of employment. Are you full time?
Check your contract. What does it say about hols?

LadyJ

Yeah full-time. I have always been paid for holidays by other companies in the past so
I assumed that everyone was entitled to 3 weeks holiday pay a year.



EDIT: College is at night so work 9-6 every day.

Electric

When I started my current job I was on a probationary contract which only allowed for something like 1.66 days annual leave for every month worked. Once I finished probation I got my 20 days annual leave.

You sure there isn't something like that in your contract?

ntlbell

LadyJ wrote: »

Yeah full-time. I have always been paid for holidays by other companies in the past so
I assumed that everyone was entitled to 3 weeks holiday pay a year.



EDIT: College is at night so work 9-6 every day.

What's in your contract?

LadyJ

They said I was on a trial run until Christmas but it's January now so it's not applicable anymore. At my last job I was on a probationary type contract for 6 months but they still gave me 1.5 weeks of holiday leave for that time.

LadyJ

ntlbell wrote: »

What's in your contract?

Not entirely sure....I was just told that because the company was so small (only 6 of us in office) that, as long as there is no inconvenience (which there wasn't) then we can book days off if we need them.

PauloMN

All covered in here:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/employment-rights-and-conditions/leave-and-holidays

And in plain English which is great. I'm pretty sure you are entitled to holiday leave (assuming you've earned enough of course) but a quick read of the link above should set you right.

ntlbell

LadyJ wrote: »

They said I was on a trial run until Christmas but it's January now so it's not applicable anymore. At my last job I was on a probationary type contract for 6 months but they still gave me 1.5 weeks of holiday leave for that time.

As far as I know and open to being corrected, you're not entitled to anything while you're on probation.

Even after this they're entitled to give you leave but as far as I know there is no law that states they must pay you for that leave.

But I always find it amusing when people start slating an employer when they're not familiar with their own working contract.

LadyJ

Cheers PauloMN. Looks like I'm entitled all right. However, now I have the task of confronting him about this.....I hate discussing money/problems with employers. I'm not very confident that way and I'm a bit nervous. What should I say?

LadyJ

ntlbell wrote: »

As far as I know and open to being corrected, you're not entitled to anything while you're on probation.

Even after this they're entitled to give you leave but as far as I know there is no law that states they must pay you for that leave.

But I always find it amusing when people start slating an employer when they're not familiar with their own working contract.

Not slating them, just assumed everyone was entitled to paid leave as I always have been. I never signed anything in this job. Was only ever a verbal thing but I've never had a problem with them. They're usually very fair.

ntlbell

LadyJ wrote: »

Cheers PauloMN. Looks like I'm entitled all right. However, now I have the task of confronting him about this.....I hate discussing money/problems with employers. I'm not very confident that way and I'm a bit nervous. What should I say?

I don't think it states you're entilted pay, it states you're entitled to take leave, be careful.

LadyJ

ntlbell wrote: »

I don't think it states you're entilted pay, it states you're entitled to take leave, be careful.

Hmm....God, I can't wait to go back to college and get a sh!t part time job. This full time stuff is very confusing.

PauloMN

LadyJ wrote: »

Cheers PauloMN. Looks like I'm entitled all right. However, now I have the task of confronting him about this.....I hate discussing money/problems with employers. I'm not very confident that way and I'm a bit nervous. What should I say?

My understanding is that anyone in full time employment is entitled to a minimum amount of paid holiday leave annually.

You definitely should take a close look at your contract though to see what it says around holidays, just to be clear before discussing it with your employer.

ntlbell

LadyJ wrote: »

Hmm....God, I can't wait to go back to college and get a sh!t part time job. This full time stuff is very confusing.

Ask one of the leagl guru's in the legal forum maybe to clarify the "law" on it.

I'm just not 100% on it for you to take it to a battle in the canteen

LadyJ

Right so. Thanks everyone. I'll ask my boss to clarify exactly why I'm not getting paid and see what he says because I'm really not sure what he meant. Then I'll see whether or not he's full of crap!

PauloMN

Actually this link is even better:
http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/informationforemployees/annualleave/

Click the PDF link for a detailled booklet on the matter. It states:

There is now no qualifying period for holidays and all
employees, regardless of status or service, qualify for paid
holidays. All time worked qualifies for paid holiday time.

I think it would be fair enough to discuss this with your manager (calmly of course) and show them that booklet if they try to refuse you paid holidays.

Edit: "regardless of status or service" to me would mean that you should have accrued holidays whilst on "probation" also.

ntlbell

daring question

is the job legit? do you pay tax etc?

LadyJ

Oh yeah it is and I do.

Nody

LadyJ wrote: »

Started working for these people in October. It's a courier company. We all had a couple of weeks off over Christmas and came back on the 2nd of January.
I had exams on the 7th,8th and 9th so had booked these days off well in advance. Now I'm told I won't be paid for them as this was "on my own time" and blah blah blah, something about the holiday period.

Will have to clarify exactly what it means but surely I'm entitle to this money. Any reason why I wouldn't be? I have booked no other days off since starting.
I'm really pissed off as this means I will only get anout 150euros next week which is really mad. Can this be right?

With 20/12 (i.e. 1.66 days a month) you're way over your holiday allowance due to Christmas and this is why it is unpaid, seems rather straight forward to me actually.

But lets presume that 2007 is clean slate, we're starting over at +/-0 for 2008. Since you're only entitled to the number of days you have worked in a year you have 4 days worked (1st to 4th of January). This equals 4 days out of 23 of the months worth of 1.67 days. This in turns gives us (4/23)*(20/12) or if you so prefer, the right to take 0.29 days off on the 7th of January. In short, you don't have enough holidays to get them paid.

Gary ITR

Nody wrote: »

With 20/12 (i.e. 1.66 days a month) you're way over your holiday allowance due to Christmas and this is why it is unpaid, seems rather straight forward to me actually.

But lets presume that 2007 is clean slate, we're starting over at +/-0 for 2008. Since you're only entitled to the number of days you have worked in a year you have 4 days worked (1st to 4th of January). This equals 4 days out of 23 of the months worth of 1.67 days. This in turns gives us (4/23)*(20/12) or if you so prefer, the right to take 0.29 days off on the 7th of January. In short, you don't have enough holidays to get them paid.

Yes thats spot on... you need to have earned the holiday days. Also you say that your employer says because the company is so small that anybody can book days off which is great but doesn't mean he is going to pay you for them

Beruthiel

Ladyj
You've been working with them since October.
If you are entitled to 21 days per year, that's 1.75 days per month. If you have had holidays at Christmas, then you have more then worked up the 1.75 per month. If your employer is looking at it that way, then they can say no to you, especially if they think you won't be there for all of 2008.

LadyJ

Ok, I get it now. However, the whole company closed over christmas so does that still cut into my personal days off? And also, when I asked for the days off he said it wouldn't be a problem so I assumed that I was getting paid.... It is only now that he is telling me that I won't be.

My own fault for not checking clearly but this seems to be a very different set-up to any full time job I've had in the past with regard to holidays.

Alun

LadyJ wrote: »

My own fault for not checking clearly but this seems to be a very different set-up to any full time job I've had in the past with regard to holidays.

I find it rather bizarre too, and it' something I've never come across in my entire working career (over 30 years).

Everywhere I've ever worked, the holiday allowance was for the calendar year, and assuming it was OK with the company you'd be perfectly entitled to take your entire yearly allowance off starting on 1st January if you wanted to.

Del2005

LadyJ wrote: »

Ok, I get it now. However, the whole company closed over christmas so does that still cut into my personal days off? And also, when I asked for the days off he said it wouldn't be a problem so I assumed that I was getting paid.... It is only now that he is telling me that I won't be.

My own fault for not checking clearly but this seems to be a very different set-up to any full time job I've had in the past with regard to holidays.

Yes it is part of your holiday allowance. Did you thing you'd get 2 weeks over Christmas plus your 21 days?

Courier companies are different, it's lucky your in the office. The couriers don't get paid for time off.

LadyJ

Del2005 wrote: »

Yes it is part of your holiday allowance. Did you thing you'd get 2 weeks over Christmas plus your 21 days?

No, I guess not but I did think that they would let me know if I wasn't going to be paid for pre-booked days in advance rather than let me know afterwards.

As I said, different set-up to previous jobs so that's why it threw me but it looks like you're right so that's ok. Just wish I'd known about this a month ago when I booked them.

So does this mean in another 3 months I can have a couple of days off then?

Stench Blossoms

Yes.

In my last job nobody got days off in January. Every holiday needed to be worked up before taken. It was to stop people taking paid holidays and then leaving the company.

Alun

orla wrote: »

In my last job nobody got days off in January. Every holiday needed to be worked up before taken. It was to stop people taking paid holidays and then leaving the company.

In all the companies I've worked for, they just worked out pro-rata how many holidays you were entitled to up until the point that you left, and just deducted any excess from your final salary (or indeed paid you for any you hadn't taken.)

ntlbell

Alun wrote: »

In all the companies I've worked for, they just worked out pro-rata how many holidays you were entitled to up until the point that you left, and just deducted any excess from your final salary (or indeed paid you for any you hadn't taken.)

This just leads to people waiting for pay day and jumping ship without warning

padser

Alun wrote: »

In all the companies I've worked for, they just worked out pro-rata how many holidays you were entitled to up until the point that you left, and just deducted any excess from your final salary (or indeed paid you for any you hadn't taken.)

Due to payment of wages act (http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1991/en/act/pub/0025/sec0005.html#zza25y1991s5this) practices like this are very problematic - thus its easier for companies to insist you work holidays before taking them.

SarahMc

I think it is common in industries where there is a high staff turnover (eg hospitality) that holidays days must be worked up before they are taken. I presume the courier industry is the same.