Why do you lie to us?

Overheal

Going unregistered seems moot: I talk about myself enough in my responses anyway.

My room mate came to be after me and her hooked up for a couple days. But after that she made it clear she was on the rebound and she needed the single life. We became good friends and she even moved into my place.

So anyway after about 6 weeks she starts bringing this long standing guy friend of hers down to visit every week or so: which for a lot of reasons bothered the hell out of me. But I asked her about it given our own relationship and I trusted her when she told me nothing was going on. I trusted her but the evidence was in my face nearly.

Anyway all year I've heard her talk about her past relationships and her history, and I decided after a long time I'd be happy for her if she did find a bit of happiness instead of lamenting to me about her past breakups: not because I didnt choose to hear it but because it was leaving her in a bad place and its depressing to see someone you care about getting depressed.

So tonight we all went out and through all the loud music and crap - and 4 months - she tells me 'me and him are going to try the dating thing - ill talk about it tomorrow'

Now, I Am Happy For Her. I like the guy; we get along; etc. But what really gets me is why did you not have the balls to put me out of my misery sooner? Between the trust and the evidence I've been a confused, hurt wreck. I don't understand why when given the choice between 'letting us down easy' and putting us out of our misery, the hurter chooses the former.

I recall a thread back in October where someone needed to choose between the two and my argument then is what it is now: put me out of my misery and im hurt for a little while: let me down easy and I can easily be confused for months. Being confused this long has been no ****ing picnic.

I asked her a few times to put me out of my misery too; but she chose the soft approach every time. Why the hell. I could ****ing hate you for the that if I didn't care about you and enjoy seeing you happy. Better to shoot down my early stage puppy love than wait till it actually means something to me. I can't ****ing wait for the gravity of it all to sink in tomorrow.

I needed to get that off my chest or I wasn't going to be able to sleep. I guess I'll talk to her tomorrow then.

Carrigart Exile

Lets her play her options, if new guy didn't pan out you were there to fall back on. Also, you provide a roof over her head, makes hurting you slightly more awkward

dresden8

Yep, you were first sub.

Very unkind thing to do. She was either into you or not. Or maybe you read too much into things in a wishful thinking kind of way.

You know now, stop mooning over her, go get laid. Loudly, with the headboard banging against the wall.

Overheal

I wasn't even a sub - I was the damned rebound guy. Sub implies that I actually had a shot at a meaningful relationship. A lot of it was wishful thinking yes but still ... you just dont do this to people. Its not nice.

You're right though I spent a lot of time over the last couple months dwelling on this and coming out of the New Year I resolved to move on and its been a healthy week but then she slips it in under the radar last night. It's like, "You're telling me this Now?" her timing sucks.

togster

Overheal i feel for you but you have 2 choices; 1: you let this get you down or 2: You get on with it and be positive. don't let someone elses problems become yours.

Overheal

Oh I'm more positive than anything else - they work well together and he's hardly scum or anything. And it makes her happy so who am I to crash the feelgood party? I just need to vent and gather my thoughts before I go talk to her on impulse and shoot myself in the foot. She is still my friend after all.

Wibbs

Overheal wrote: »

I wasn't even a sub - I was the damned rebound guy. Sub implies that I actually had a shot at a meaningful relationship. A lot of it was wishful thinking yes but still ... you just dont do this to people. Its not nice.

Yep as others have said, you were the safety net, or the temporary fix(what a rebound is). Both men and women do this, but I have to say in my experience more women do it, especially younger women.

My advice? Stop being overly nice to her. Do not engage her with her emotional rantings. Do not lend her an ear or give her advice. Otherwise she will subconsciously bring you along with the new bloke, until he takes root.

Overheal

Oh if only it seemed that easy. At the end of the day its nice to have someone else that I've cared about/have care for me. It's been a pretty grey time of life for me since I moved to college. She gave it color, you know?

togster

Overheal wrote: »

Oh I'm more positive than anything else - they work well together and he's hardly scum or anything. And it makes her happy so who am I to crash the feelgood party? I just need to vent and gather my thoughts before I go talk to her on impulse and shoot myself in the foot. She is still my friend after all.

Nothing wrong with venting.

K_P

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your original post, but...

You and your room mate hooked up, she ended it, you stayed friends and months later she's told you she and a friend are going to give things a go.

What exactly did she do wrong? You may have been harbouring feelings for her but that doesn't make her wrong if she wasn't feeling the same about you. She's been upfront with you, telling you about the new guy before it even starts with him.

I realise you're hurting and the need to vent. And as I said, maybe I misunderstood your first post. But I don't honestly see anything terrible in what she did. You were friends, still are and you shouldn't let the hurt you're feeling now sour that friendship.

Overheal

K_P wrote: »

What exactly did she do wrong? You may have been harbouring feelings for her but that doesn't make her wrong if she wasn't feeling the same about you. She's been upfront with you, telling you about the new guy before it even starts with him.

I realise you're hurting and the need to vent. And as I said, maybe I misunderstood your first post. But I don't honestly see anything terrible in what she did. You were friends, still are and you shouldn't let the hurt you're feeling now sour that friendship.

It wont hurt the friendship much to be honest but let me clear this up. I asked her about it many a time. I've asked specific questions, this that and the other, etc. and from that I saw it coming in my own head even if she outright denied it. I hate being right, but without being too modest my intuition is killer.

I can understand maybe she didn't intend to hurt my feelings (though she has) so thats forgivable at the end of the day. Her timing is not: instead of finding this out affirmatively weeks ago she waited to tell me last night, when me him and her and a few others were out drinking. Basically around 1100 he went to the bathroom, she brought up almost passingly "We're trying the dating thing..."

You'd figure with a menstrual cycle women would have a better sense of timing.

So you have to understand in her own head she thought and knew that i was 'finding out about this' right then, and there.

So yes: today is a good day to vent.

How Strange

Overheal, I suppose she was either a) hedging her bets or b) liked you as a friend and therefore didn't want to hurt you by telling you the full truth.

I've been in situation b) before and its not nice for the girl either. Well not in my case anyway - I tried softly softly and he just didn't get it and I knew that it would hurt him alot (not me being big headed but more to do with him having low self esteem around women - he was a particularly shy chap) if I said it out straight and bluntly.

Having said that I've also been on the other side and been strung along for months and months on end on more than one occasion.

Sometimes people (not me!) get a kick out of knowing someone fancies them even if they have no intention of reciprocating. It's an ego boost. It's not right but affairs of the heart are cruel.

Your situation is compounded as you were living together.

All I would say is be the bigger person (as you seem to be) and wish them well. Then make sure if things don't work out or aren't going well that she doesn't start cosying up to you again and dangling you on a string all over again. Define the new boundaries for her and stick to them.

biko

Overheal, Why do you lie to us?
That's the title of this thread but I cannot see anywhere that she lied to you.

K_P

Overheal wrote: »

You'd figure with a menstrual cycle women would have a better sense of timing.

I like that!

I understand you a bit better now I think and see why you feel hurt. Sorry.

celt262

Best thing to do is follow the pic's from 1-3

Beruthiel

celt262 wrote: »

Best thing to do is follow the pic's from 1-3

Well aren't you the great comedian. :rolleyes:

I see any more crap like that from you and I'll ban you from this forum.
B

Overheal

How Strange wrote: »

Overheal, I suppose she was either a) hedging her bets or b) liked you as a friend and therefore didn't want to hurt you by telling you the full truth.

I've been in situation b) before and its not nice for the girl either. Well not in my case anyway - I tried softly softly and he just didn't get it and I knew that it would hurt him alot (not me being big headed but more to do with him having low self esteem around women - he was a particularly shy chap) if I said it out straight and bluntly.

Having said that I've also been on the other side and been strung along for months and months on end on more than one occasion.

Sometimes people (not me!) get a kick out of knowing someone fancies them even if they have no intention of reciprocating. It's an ego boost. It's not right but affairs of the heart are cruel.

Your situation is compounded as you were living together.

All I would say is be the bigger person (as you seem to be) and wish them well. Then make sure if things don't work out or aren't going well that she doesn't start cosying up to you again and dangling you on a string all over again. Define the new boundaries for her and stick to them.

Thats some good advice. I understand you wouldn't want to hurt your friend's feelings but to be fair - the soft approach in my opinion just drags the whole thing out and leaves more opportunities for relapses between wishful thinking, self pity, and depression.
I guess in my situation with the living arrangement it would have been awkward as hell if putting me out of my misery had gone south: because then we'd still be living together and they'd still be sleeping together in the next room. Last night was delightful by the way: I'm learning to sleep with music on all over again.

Its more the fact that, we were all sitting down after the club last night, having an unwind, and there they were being all couply, her head in his lap. It wasn't awkward; we were all getting along like a house on fire.

But I couldn't help but think how close I was to finding 'that' - the physical closeness. A Significant Other. You know that feeling you sometimes get when you see the happy couple sitting on the couch and you wish that could be you? Its not even about Her: its about 'that'. And it seemed so close, even when it probably was not. The couple days we were 'together' it felt like I finally found it and then it turns out to be a faux pas.

It's just a big reminder that I'm just another lonely guy - ironically: its a big club.

So I know what happens now and it will probably involve the two of us growing apart and talking a lot less. Its a damn shame: she was good for me as much as she was bad for me. Still, I'm happy for her. It's nice to see a happy turnout every once in a while.

biko wrote:

Overheal, Why do you lie to us?
That's the title of this thread but I cannot see anywhere that she lied to you.

I felt lied to last night when I was sad not entirely sobre and tired. My thinking was that it has been going on for a while and even though I asked her about she was still telling me i was imagining things. So yeah I feel lied to. I'll concede that it couldve only happened recently but hes been having sleepovers for ages now. I know thats not really my business but still: thats how i felt about it.

Celt, you are the height of class and I wish you all the best when you drop the soap in Mountjoy :cool:

How Strange

Overheal Quote:..But I couldn't help but think how close I was to finding 'that' - the physical closeness. A Significant Other. You know that feeling you sometimes get when you see the happy couple sitting on the couch and you wish that could be you? Its not even about Her: its about 'that'. And it seemed so close, even when it probably was not. The couple days we were 'together' it felt like I finally found it and then it turns out to be a faux pas.

It's just a big reminder that I'm just another lonely guy - ironically: its a big club.

Overheal, you've just put your finger on the problem right there and I can 100% relate to what you're saying. I was that person for years and years and who knows could be again.

It's that awful sinking feeling of 'not me' and 'why not me' when you see couples getting together. As you said it has less to do with that particular girl and more to do with your desire/need (call it whatever you want) to be loved by someone and to be in a relationship. And not for needy reasons either but simply because being the 'just for one' person gets a bit lonely sometimes.

It's not nice and the only thing to do is get on with it. Life goes on blah, blah, blah which of course it does. There really isn't anything else to do. I think most people identify with that feeling.

You need a bit of a laugh and some fun because you know yourself that you can't wallow in it; catch up with some friends that you alway enjoy meeting or whatever it is that will give you the kick you need.

Overheal

Yeah you're quite right: when this started happening back in september my time spent answering calls from friends went to ............. I've forgotten how to call over to people - I'm more an im not invited so im not dropping in guy.

Craps, I wonder if I should even bother her with any of this now: would I be a bastard to rain on her parade with my poor-me's? She has been in good spirits and all.

j0e

yeah i really hate it man i know where ur coming from the being kind to be cruel ****e

How Strange

Overheal ...Craps, I wonder if I should even bother her with any of this now: would I be a bastard to rain on her parade with my poor-me's? She has been in good spirits and all.

I'd say let it go, you said yourself its more about you than her specifically. Let her enjoy what she has and concentrate on yourself.

Give yourself a metaphorical kick in the ar*e and give some of your friends a call.

monkey tennis

I must be missing something here, because I can't see what this girl did wrong. You had a fling, she ended it and made it clear it was finished, and now you're jealous of her new boyfriend.

Overheal wrote: »

I felt lied to last night when I was sad not entirely sobre and tired. My thinking was that it has been going on for a while and even though I asked her about she was still telling me i was imagining things.

Unless I've missed something else and you're actually her mother, she doesn't need to explain her life to you. Maybe we'll see a thread in PI from her called 'my prying flatmate'?

I'm betting you're pretty young/naive.

Morlar

Overheal wrote: »

I asked her a few times to put me out of my misery too; but she chose the soft approach every time.

Dont mean to sound cynical but to me that sounds like 'covering your options' ie string one person along/keep em sweet while pursuing other options. Its more of a practical way of doing things than a nice way of doing things. If thats the case your better off rid of her.

Overheal

How Strange wrote: »

I'd say let it go, you said yourself its more about you than her specifically. Let her enjoy what she has and concentrate on yourself.

Give yourself a metaphorical kick in the ar*e and give some of your friends a call.

Thats the plan then ^_^ you're a star.

monkey_tetnis_shot wrote:

Unless I've missed something else and you're actually her mother, she doesn't need to explain her life to you. Maybe we'll see a thread in PI from her called 'my prying flatmate'?

I'm betting you're pretty young/naive.

like I said - its probably none of my business. Had this convo with my brother weeks back - mind your own business: she doesn't have to run **** past me. Don't mean it doesnt still feel like a kick in the gee.

I'm betting you're a ________ . But you didn't hear it from me. Snide remarks shall be met in kind for the sake of my own gratification.

Morlar wrote:

Dont mean to sound cynical but to me that sounds like 'covering your options' ie string one person along/keep em sweet while pursuing other options. Its more of a practical way of doing things than a nice way of doing things. If thats the case your better off rid of her.

I'm definitely better off not seeing her as a prospective partner, most definitely.

monkey tennis

monkey tennis wrote: »

I must be missing something here, because I can't see what this girl did wrong. You had a fling, she ended it and made it clear it was finished, and now you're jealous of her new boyfriend.

I'm also confused. The first post clearly states she told you it was over and not going anywhere. Then you got jealous of the new guy.

What's the problem again...?

Overheal

Im not getting into details of the 'its not over/its not happening' talk and I dont find it relevant 4 months later. Needless to say I was strung along somewhat.

Anyway some friends of mine have been left with 2 house mates that moved out this week with zero notice so they're looking to fill the spot(s). Cheaper than what im on too. Happy as I am for the 2 of them it just feels awkward, like I cant even talk to her; it even feels too weird to so much as wish them well to be honest. Like a spare prick and a third wheel.

And some other 3rd party issue in the house has flared up (not going there thanks) so right now feels like a great time to vacate... I just want to put the whole thing out of sight and out of mind.

Overheal

woke up at 810 today. Its a saturday. my alarms not set. I was having a dream about using an atm to open a door to some subway or something but the damn thing was out of order.

I wouldnt mind waking up this early, but i was out drinking with my prospective new housemates till 330 last night id say i only got to bed at 4 and i was comfortably filled with JD and smokey bacon burger. Of course the first thought to cross my mind when i wake is im still here... I shouldve crashed at the other's place ...

seeing them together is one thing but the thought of sleeping in the next room has become a living hell. Imagining those two sharing repeated kodak moments in bed is overpowering. And i appear to be sober! i cant even get some good hangover sleep ffs. And the house is freezing to boot ...

I have to worry that i might not be able to get into that new place however: theres 2 rooms; myself; then a group of 3 looking at the place on sunday. How the **** am I going to stay here, if need be?

I mentioned moving out to her in conversation: she sounds so full of herself, "you're not leaving: because you'll miss me too much."

Off to college this morning anyway; for the heat and the distance.

Wibbs

Overheal wrote: »

seeing them together is one thing but the thought of sleeping in the next room has become a living hell. Imagining those two sharing repeated kodak moments in bed is overpowering.

Understandable. If you have balls in your sack and a heart in your chest that will affect you and no mistake.

I have to worry that i might not be able to get into that new place however: theres 2 rooms; myself; then a group of 3 looking at the place on sunday. How the **** am I going to stay here, if need be?

Where there's a will there's a way, but you have to offset that with how much of a strain that's going to be financially and with college. Hard one. Do you have mates you can crash with.

I mentioned moving out to her in conversation: she sounds so full of herself, "you're not leaving: because you'll miss me too much."

OK clearly you can't extrapolate the situation from just one sentence in isolation, but this sounds like little girly games. "Oh look at me, I have two men who are into me". This is a very common one in young wans. She knows you like her, she knows this will freak you out. Now she's got the horn for this new guy and that's cool, but any action on her part that deliberately increases your discomfort is takin the píss. Watch for it and don't let her away with it.

Gordon

Overheal wrote: »

I mentioned moving out to her in conversation: she sounds so full of herself, "you're not leaving: because you'll miss me too much."

It sounds to me like she isn't aware of how exactly you feel about this, I get the impression that you could have been seeing things that didn't exist and maybe you didn't voice these properly with her, so you saw signs when there were none.

Therefore, if this is true, it seems that she likes you as a friend; I wouldn't call that being full of yourself, she was trying to cheer you up by making a light hearted comment that has relevance to you both. If she said it angrily then maybe it was intended as a stab, but I reckon she said it quickly with a smile on her face and a bubbly voice.

I don't think she knows how you're feeling here. She broke up with you, you accepted but hoped to change it, you said "what if?" and she said "maybe"?

It sounds like this is a good learning experience for you. If someone isn't sure then take it as a no, if someone says "friend" then that's what it means. If you have a friend then be prepared for the friend to have a relationship with another man, this means that the friend will bring them round to your flat. Letting her stay in your flat when you were still into her was a bad move, it's like dating a work colleague, it'll only end in tears.

Try and move on, be happy for her, she is your friend right? Let her have fun as I'm sure you would like a woman that is infatuated with you not to be a dark cloud around you when you have found the love of your life. But it does sound like you should get out of the flat and get this experience over with.

If she truly was your friend, though, then she still is your friend right?

Overheal

Jedi Master Wibbs wrote:

OK clearly you can't extrapolate the situation from just one sentence in isolation, but this sounds like little girly games. "Oh look at me, I have two men who are into me". This is a very common one in young wans. She knows you like her, she knows this will freak you out. Now she's got the horn for this new guy and that's cool, but any action on her part that deliberately increases your discomfort is takin the píss. Watch for it and don't let her away with it.

Yeah. She definitely receives an ego boost from my time and caring; likes to fish for compliments a lot and tease for the feel good. A lot of the jokes she uses like "You're going to die holding a female anatomy chart and a fleshlight" and "I get more pussy than you do" (shes bi)

...............

I've tried many times to get across that I don't appreciate these kind of comments at all because they are very insensitive but she'll just defend herself because she jokes with everyone like this. Well, I'm not everyone. Im her room mate and she's my friend and she knows enough about me (or should at this stage) to know that comments like that get to me. she can be as bubbly as she likes when she says them but that doesn't make it ok. Lets take an example:

":D Omg I wish someone would kill that ****ing n***erstain rofl !!!!1!!!one! "

Theres just some things that aren't nice to say in any tone. I apologize for any offense caused with my example.

Gordon wrote: »

It sounds to me like she isn't aware of how exactly you feel about this, I get the impression that you could have been seeing things that didn't exist and maybe you didn't voice these properly with her, so you saw signs when there were none.

Therefore, if this is true, it seems that she likes you as a friend; I wouldn't call that being full of yourself, she was trying to cheer you up by making a light hearted comment that has relevance to you both. If she said it angrily then maybe it was intended as a stab, but I reckon she said it quickly with a smile on her face and a bubbly voice.

I don't think she knows how you're feeling here. She broke up with you, you accepted but hoped to change it, you said "what if?" and she said "maybe"?

I'll admit its possible, that she doesn't grasp how weird I feel about recent developments. Thats because I havent had a chance to ****ing talk to her! She's always attached to your one now. The last time I had a one on one moment with her was when she told me they were decided on going out. There wasn't time to get into it.

Its that kind of carry on that has me the most upset: I get on great with her; I get on well with him; and I'm happy for them both as lonely as I am. But I can see already my opportunities for continuing our friendship as it was is now going to shoot down to sweet **** all because they'll be attached, realistically, 5 out of 7 days of the week. And I don't feel comfortable talking to them as a couple.

I wouldn't mind, but I know she only sees me as a friend and I've come to see her as a friend with that in mind. But I'm confused: when I say I'm moving out (and its mostly for the cost, ever increasingly to save the awkwardness) she says I'll miss her too much to leave?

If she was trying to make me feel better she could just admit she values my friendship enough to miss me but she seems incapable of admitting that. Either because she's embarrassed, afraid she'll send off the wrong message (to me, and the new bf as well) or a bit of both. With comments like that and the above ^ its pretty easy to make yourself come off as self-important and thats what shes doing even if shes oblivious to it.

The Gordon Freeman wrote:

It sounds like this is a good learning experience for you. If someone isn't sure then take it as a no, if someone says "friend" then that's what it means. If you have a friend then be prepared for the friend to have a relationship with another man, this means that the friend will bring them round to your flat. Letting her stay in your flat when you were still into her was a bad move, it's like dating a work colleague, it'll only end in tears.

The decision to get her moved in had a lot to do with the 3rd party issue. I needed to find people to fill in spots in my flat and the year had already started and everyone was situated. She happened to live in a sh*thole and after a few hundred euro of ESB dispute she was looking for a new place.

I knew the potential mess I might be making for myself. If I didn't I imagine this would be worse for everyone - I can only imagine warring with the new guy and getting territorial and pissing urine in the hallway so he knows whos domain hes in (rawr!) but I knew after one or two day visits by her other friends that the situation would likely pop up eventually ... a bit of emotional farsight I suppose :rolleyes:

Gordon wrote:

Try and move on, be happy for her, she is your friend right? Let her have fun as I'm sure you would like a woman that is infatuated with you not to be a dark cloud around you when you have found the love of your life. But it does sound like you should get out of the flat and get this experience over with.

If she truly was your friend, though, then she still is your friend right?

Yeah of course, I'd like for her to be my friend still but we'll see what happens. Like I said I haven't even had a proper chance to speak with her. She may still resent me a bit for a convo we had over christmas: I told her my life was going to sh*t because talking with her and pining on her was even keeping me up at night (I'd wake up on my head nearly) and my grades and attendance were going to hell, etc. and that I needed some space and that I needed away from my feelings for her and her issues. She didn't respond well at the time... told me I was being selfish and pathetic etc. etc. but again, I have since had no chance to speak with her.

So from that and everything else I of course understand I can't be the dark cloud that rains on her happiness and I need to stop thinking about her and all of this. I'm thinking she doesn't want me to move out but for ****s sake woman grow some bi-balls and tell me that :mad: These stupid power plays she makes - I'm ****ing sick of it.

No I don't want to be upset with her but I am and I need to do something about that so I'm trying to find the space I so very badly require.

sillo

Get out as soon as possible.
Sever all ties as soon as possible.
Move on with your life.

I've been where you are now. It's not good. It's not cool. It's not healthy. It can stay with you. Don't let it. Run.

EDIT: Don't worry about what she does or doesn't know. Classic mistake, once you get into that you will inevitably find yourself thinking it's you who are responsible. Hell, maybe you are - all I can say is IT DOESN'T MATTER. It doesn't matter what she knows consciously or otherwise, it doesn't matter what signals you or she did or didn't send.

What matters is this will just drive you slowly mad and distort your view on..well, pretty much everything. Nobody can win in the situation as it stands and you need to leave.

Wibbs

Gordon wrote: »

It sounds to me like she isn't aware of how exactly you feel about this, I get the impression that you could have been seeing things that didn't exist and maybe you didn't voice these properly with her, so you saw signs when there were none.

Therefore, if this is true, it seems that she likes you as a friend; I wouldn't call that being full of yourself, she was trying to cheer you up by making a light hearted comment that has relevance to you both. If she said it angrily then maybe it was intended as a stab, but I reckon she said it quickly with a smile on her face and a bubbly voice.

I don't think she knows how you're feeling here. She broke up with you, you accepted but hoped to change it, you said "what if?" and she said "maybe"?

I would put money on it that she knows exactly what's what. Well I would be 80% sure anyhoo.

Try and move on, be happy for her, she is your friend right? Let her have fun as I'm sure you would like a woman that is infatuated with you not to be a dark cloud around you when you have found the love of your life. But it does sound like you should get out of the flat and get this experience over with.

If she truly was your friend, though, then she still is your friend right?

I agree mostly, but this is where we would have some divergence of opinion. The second one person gets the horn for the other, it's not a friendship, until that passes. It can't be, simply because it's not an equal relationship. There is discomfort on the part of one or both over this and where there is discomfort friendship, by definition can't exist..

I will say there does seem to be a gender difference about this. Women will often say "why can't we be friends" either right after a relationship ends or when a guy makes a play and it falls flat. Certainly more than men. They're more likely to surround themselves with male "friends" they know fancy them. Look even in this forum, there are many more guys in this situation than women. So much so that it could even be described as a male problem.

I would go so far as to advise younger guys, to avoid being friends with women you are actually attracted to. Until such times as you get a bit of a harder shell and know what's what. If you get dumped and she asks for friendship, refuse as it's either a way of leaving you with scraps, or it's her selfishly looking for a safety net while she's boning someone else. Do not think that being her "friend" means you're going to get back with her. It doesn't and usually has the opposite effect. If after time has passed and you've truly moved on, then fine, you can be mates again. Until then walk away politely.

I have to add I have 3 very good friends that just happen to be women. I can see why others find them attractive, but I never have. That's why they're still my friends. I have also seen them string guys along for emotional support, fully aware that the guy was looking for more than friendhip (when they were younger, in fairness).

Wibbs

sillo wrote: »

Get out as soon as possible.
Sever all ties as soon as possible.
Move on with your life.

I've been where you are now. It's not good. It's not cool. It's not healthy. It can stay with you. Don't let it. Run.

EDIT: Don't worry about what she does or doesn't know. Classic mistake, once you get into that you will inevitably find yourself thinking it's you who are responsible. Hell, maybe you are - all I can say is IT DOESN'T MATTER. It doesn't matter what she knows consciously or otherwise, it doesn't matter what signals you or she did or didn't send.

What matters is this will just drive you slowly mad and distort your view on..well, pretty much everything. Nobody can win in the situation as it stands and you need to leave.

I would agree with this 100%

Overheal

Jedi Master Wibbs wrote: »

I would put money on it that she knows exactly what's what. Well I would be 80% sure anyhoo.

I agree mostly, but this is where we would have some divergence of opinion. The second one person gets the horn for the other, it's not a friendship, until that passes. It can't be, simply because it's not an equal relationship. There is discomfort on the part of one or both over this and where there is discomfort friendship, by definition can't exist..

At times she's comfortable making me hot and bothered and being overly flirtatious - then takes a different tone when we decide to make a move.

Master Wibbs wrote:

I will say there does seem to be a gender difference about this. Women will often say "why can't we be friends" either right after a relationship ends or when a guy makes a play and it falls flat. Certainly more than men. They're more likely to surround themselves with male "friends" they know fancy them. Look even in this forum, there are many more guys in this situation than women. So much so that it could even be described as a male problem.

I would go so far as to advise younger guys, to avoid being friends with women you are actually attracted to. Until such times as you get a bit of a harder shell and know what's what. If you get dumped and she asks for friendship, refuse as it's either a way of leaving you with scraps, or it's her selfishly looking for a safety net while she's boning someone else. Do not think that being her "friend" means you're going to get back with her. It doesn't and usually has the opposite effect. If after time has passed and you've truly moved on, then fine, you can be mates again. Until then walk away politely.

I have to add I have 3 very good friends that just happen to be women. I can see why others find them attractive, but I never have. That's why they're still my friends. I have also seen them string guys along for emotional support, fully aware that the guy was looking for more than friendhip (when they were younger, in fairness).

Someone get this man a lightsabre - he gets it.

All of her guy friends (yes, even me as much as I tried to deny it) have feelings for her - some have pretty strong ones too. The odd declaration of love here; 'I left my girlfriend for you' there...

It's something they complain about - "Why can't I just have guy friends that don't want me?"

But SERIOUSLY. Cop on woman. She even has a pet-name-category for the friends she has that are like that. Kitties. If you're going to give it a name: thats pretty ****ed up. She tried to declare me a kitty early on and I wanted none of that joo joo juice. As you put it, Master Wibbs, its like eating the scraps off the floor. I like to think I had enough sense to realize that doing that to myself would probably set me back about 5 years emotionally.

Either way the fact that this is bothering me this much is a clear indication I need out of this house. Fingers crossed the place I'm looking at clears me in but I remain hopelessly braced for disappointment

sillo

Wibbs wrote: »

I have also seen them string guys along for emotional support, fully aware that the guy was looking for more than friendhip (when they were younger, in fairness).

This is really the heart of the issue. I've seen it a few times over the years, you could write a thesis as to the reasons for it, or how much of a conscious thing it is -- but the theory isn't relevant. It happens, usually in younger women (teens) but sometimes in the 20's or beyond I'm sure.

Good luck with the house hunting OP, try to stay focused, you will on occasion be tempted to stay, it is important that you do not do this.

Overheal

Thank you all.

The situation isn't fixed and I still havent had my chance to talk to her. Last night i snapped at her after x y and z and crashed at a friends.

Anyway Im about to talk to her shortly here - the bf is gone back to dublin today and shes getting off work so thatll be a relief... finally get this off my chest good and proper.

10 mins ago I also got the go ahead from my new location and I'll probably be moving in friday. Sound people; good friends. If I need to talk to them about this I can (and have, a little)

So unless this conversation goes completely and utterly south I want to thank all of you for taking the time, and giving your advice. Its much appreciated; its why I post here.

- Over.

Wibbs

Good luck with that. One thing I would advise is not to get emotional at all about it. Do not tell you're all hurt etc. Do not snap at her. Girls may snap, boys may snap, men state their case and leave it at that. Snapping or going any way emo will just play into her idea that she's the mutts nuts. Just calmly state that you were thrown a little by this and find it a bit uncomfortable so you're looking for pastures new.

Overheal

Yay! It went south! Oh what a world...

First off: she says they aren't actually a couple this that the other, etc. That surprised me. Couldn't refute it either I suppose under the evidence.

Still, it doesn't take from the fact that if I stay little instances like this will continue to pop up as they have done so I'm still going.

Now, she's a bat out of hell: as the conversations we just had and the conversations we had over christmas came to a melding point - I told her I have to cut her out. Its that simple. I'm sure given all the time and space in the world I would eventually see her as purely a friend but real life doesn't work like that and I need to address the real life thing. So naturally, I'm now considered a self-obsessed !@#$%;^&*&^%$#@#$%^&*()(*&^%$#@#$%^&*(&^%$

I find it a little extreme to be honest .... But I've just spent 3 hours trying to get my head around it again, and its not happening. I'm going to quit speculating.

From my view, she's spoiled in love: she has men to do everything for her (her words), and I think she lives off the care and attention. Who wouldn't?

But I feel severely short changed. I never really expected to be paid in full so to speak but we've just fallen off the same page and I feel really short-changed. So, I still resolve to cut my losses because if I continue to invest my feelings in this girl I'll only hit rock bottom. Been there, done that, not planning a return visit.

Elated

Wibbs

Overheal wrote: »

Yay! It went south!

These things will

First off: she says they aren't actually a couple this that the other, etc. That surprised me. Couldn't refute it either I suppose under the evidence.

Direct translation, "I'm hedging my bets and keep you guessing as I need your validation and to do that I have to keep you hooked". Standard operational procedure.

So, I still resolve to cut my losses because if I continue to invest my feelings in this girl I'll only hit rock bottom. Been there, done that, not planning a return visit.

Nail on the head. Kudos