Sharing between 2 houses

cormie

Hi,
Would greatly appreciate some help on this:

Scenario:

• 2 friends, 2 houses, one with a phone line, one without.
• 1 Netgear wireless router connected to phone line
• A laptop in each house, both with wifi receivers.

Problem:

• Signal to weak in house without the router.
• Have tried the router in house without phone line with extended phone cable but then the signal is too weak for laptop 1.

Solution

• Please fill in

Also, the house with the phone line wants to get rid of the phone line as they have skype and just need broadband but the priority for now is sharing the connection there already.

jimmycrackcorm

You can try a router with 802.1N capability which would give much better signal strength but the downside is that you'd have to use a 802.1N usb adapter for the laptop in the second house.

Alternatively and a better solution is to buy a repeater and place it in the second house. This will boost the original signal.

cormie

Thanks for your input. I don't understand though, how would a repeater be able to pick up a better signal than the laptop can itself? Would the repeater not just get the same weak signal that the laptop would? I'm not too sure what a repeater is, would I need a netgear compatible one?

remus808

a repeater is a signal booster

hate to rain on your parade but what your doing is in breach of contract and possibly illegal...dont get caught!

cormie

Caught by who It's my friends phone line, my router, he knows I'm sharing his signal, wouldn't have thought there's anything wrong with that?

Could someone please link me to a repeater/signal booster that would do the job?

I wonder would it be possible to get a network cable that's about 60 ft that I could just connect to the router in the room with the socket and just run that down his stairs, and through his floor/my ceiling and if I could, could I then connect that to another router or would it have to go directly into my laptops network cable port? I'd prefer to connect wirelessly.

GBX

Caught be the net company. They supply to your address. Not 2 addresses.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

cormie wrote: »

I wonder would it be possible to get a network cable that's about 60 ft that I could just connect to the router in the room with the socket and just run that down his stairs, and through his floor/my ceiling and if I could, could I then connect that to another router or would it have to go directly into my laptops network cable port? I'd prefer to connect wirelessly.

You could run a cable and then buy your on wireless access point and plug it in to it.

cormie

They are only supplying to one house though. I've seen advertisements for broadband with people surfing the net in their back garden, since we share the same garden, if he was to do this and then walk into my place with his laptop, he'd then be breaching the contract? Sounds a bit ridiculous if any providers disallow this in their contract.

Anyway, nobody knows what's in his contract so it probably perfectly ok

cormie

Sean_K wrote: »

You could run a cable and then buy your on wireless access point and plug it in to it.

Thanks, is this the same as a router or is it something different? I don't suppose it's the same as a repeater/booster? Also, if I was to do this, would I then be able to connect a VOIP phone (which requires a network cable connected to it)

So I'd have the network cable from upstairs coming into my place and connected to the Wireless Access Point thingy, which will transmit a wirelss signal to my laptop and then I can also hook up my VOIP phone, connected with a network cable. If I could do that it would be great

Again, if anyone could link to a specific wireless access point/repeater/booster that would suit this situation I'd be grateful

cormie

If I'm to go with the option of connection network cable to the router in the room with the phone line, and bringing it downstairs and through the floor/ceiling, what cable should I get does anyone know? Cat5? Cat6? RJ45? or are they all the same? I ready Cat6 future proofs where as cat5 doesn't?

watty

RJ45 is a connection standard. Not a cable (strictly what we call an RJ45 connector isn't).

You'd rarely get less than Cat5e, which you can run 100m upto 1Gbps. Unless you are running a cluster of Super Computers or a Data Centre, you don't need haster than 1Gbps.

If the cable is exposed or near mains or Satellite cables, running Shielded cable rather than UTP is better. Only earth the screen to metal cover "RJ45" plug at one end.

OTH the phone cable to the Router can easily be extended up to 1km in some cases using Cat5e on an RJ11. Regular phone cable is often Cat 3.

deadl0ck

You could try a cantenna or something similar

I got one for a poor signal I had and it made a HUGE difference.

You can get them on eBay or you can build one yourself (I'm sure you'd get the bits and bobs in Maplin)

godskitchen

Dont get an extender, they are rubbish, trust me, (using a router as an access point is better) I have just completed the same thing you are trying to do between your friends house and yours.

My distance is around 70 meters, I had a directional wireless antenna on the roof of the house with the net connection, i could receive signal outside house 2, but as it an old house with 2ft walls made of stone, I could not get a signal inside, apart from a very low signal at one window.

So I then thought to get a wireless extender, the linksys one. Its a piece of crap! Just read some reviews on amazon, I would rather eat cat poop than use this thing. it halfs the bandwidth and doubles the pings, really not an issue if you dont have a clue about anything wireless related, and while 4ms pings to the router are not shocking, it was bugging me big time.

So as I always knew, wired was the best way to go, the only thing putting me off was crossing a public road.

Anyway it turned out not to be a problem and I now have around 70 Meters of External Cat5e running between the two houses. Its great, solid, and stable. Of course my pings are now below 1ms aswell.

So my advice is this, while wireless can and will do the job, no one on here can guarantee that any wireless product will work for you. Its a case of trying and seeing if it works.

I however can guarantee that Cat5e will work!

I am no network engineer, but I am sure the guys on here that are will agree, if you can wire.................DO!

MickyJoe

How about trying the adapters that do ethernet over the mains. e.g Zyzel or Devolo ?

cormie

Thanks for the feedback. I think the wired way may be the best way to go since it's guaranteed to work. Godskitchen, is there a special type of "external" cable or is it all the same? How did you go about getting it out of one house and into the other? Did you drill a hole through the wall or what? Don't suppose you have about 40m of the cable left over?

Where can I buy the right cable?

Thanks a lot everyone, hopefully get this sorted soon

godskitchen

Yes there is an external Cat5e, its solid core, which means each wire in the cable is solid, not a bunch of small wires like speaker cable (Bell wire). The only real other difference is that External Cat5e has a stronger outer layer, it is UV resistant and more robust.

Its about twice the price of normal Cat5e, but for me it was a must, its a long distance and 90% is outside, the last thing I wanted was for a bird or whatever to peck through it, they still could but the same is true of pone cable, and I have never heard Eircom use bird attacks as a reason for line failure.

You could get away with normal Cat5e, its dirt cheap if you buy it from an electrical supplier, now I dont mean maplins or other rip off men. I mean the place electricians get their stuff from. Maplins are around twice the price of electrical wholesalers. There is nothing fancy about Cat5, its just wire.

It all depends on how much cable you intended to run outside, I did a good bit of research on the subject, due to the fact I could only find Cat5e in 305meter rolls, they all sell Cat5e by the meter but External only seems to come in bulk. Anyway my research told me that there are many people using normal Cat5e over longish distances, some use hose pipe for the outside leg to protect the cable, some dont. I was told that it could last a year by some, and by others that a few years.

I didnt want to take the chance. Now if I was only going 10 meters outside, I would have used standard Cat5e, inside a hose pipe.

I drilled a hole in window frames at both ends, as easy listening to back street Spanish music on a sunny day. One tip I would give is, drill at an upwards angle, stops rain coming through, of course plug the hole with expanding foam/silicone for extra protection.

As for left over cable.........I have around 200 Meters of it...........

cormie

Thanks again for the details So the external stuff is just the same as the internal stuff pretty much? How much would you charge to send 50 metres up to Dublin?

So if I'm buying the cable, do I need to buy the male heads and attach them to the cable? Is it tricky?

I think I might just do it through his floor/my ceiling (over where my electricity box is handy enough so it wont be sticking out of the middle of my roof). So I'd need cable going from the router, down his stairs, then I might connect this to a female socket, and put the female socket through the ceiling and have another female socket at my end and then just get a male to male and plug that male into... (into what?) hehe, what do you have it connected to? A wireless access point? Any recommendations on which one to get for such use?

Thanks again

godskitchen

I paid €121 for 305meters which works out to about 40c per meter, I dont want to make money on it so you could have it for the same, the only thing is, its not light, postage could make the price silly! You might be best trying places around Dublin, there would have to be someone selling it by the meter....................................

As for connections on the end of it, you really need a RJ45 Crimper, its near impossible to do it without. There are other ways, like cutting a short 1 meter shop Ethernet cable in half, and joining all the coloured wires..............but that just messing and not ideal, it does work though. Spiffing!

What you could do is, the place you get the cable from, if not me, they will have a crimper, they will also have the RJ45 connectors, you could ask them nicely and they will do it for you..............The only problem with this is, the hole you drill will have to be bigger, Cat5e External is 6mm in diameter, thats the size of hold I have drilled, cable fits through good and tight. You wont be able to do the same when the RJ45 is on the end.

You can of course buy a crimper.......€35 from a shop (Anyone know if I am way off on this?) or €10 inc postage from ebay.

"I think I might just do it through his floor/my ceiling (over where my electricity box is handy enough so it wont be sticking out of the middle of my roof). So I'd need cable going from the router, down his stairs, then I might connect this to a female socket, and put the female socket through the ceiling and have another female socket at my end and then just get a male to male and plug that male into... (into what?) hehe, what do you have it connected to?"

NASA are still trying to figure out what you have just said there .........So in the mean time, all you need is two of these and the cable.

As for routers, yes I have one router set up where the internet connection is, this has the External Cat5e running from it to House2, where I have it connected directly to my Desktop...........However I am getting another router and connecting it to that, which will broadcast the signal throughout House2 wirelessly.

If you do the same, all you have to do is set the second router so that it knows its connected to a router and not directly to the internet, its easy to do, really it is, if you get stuck there is plenty of info on here and the rest of the net.

As for running your cable down by the electric box, that might be a problem, I was reading that if you run RJ45 with electric cable it can cause problems.............someone else on here might know if this is the case.

RangeR

Your understanding of the ISP contract is flawed. The contract will clearly state that you cannot share the internet connection with neighbours.

It doesn't matter which ISP you are with, I think they all state this in the contract.

This is an ethical dilemma as the ISP will more than likely may never find out, but what you are doing is still wrong and theft from the ISP. I'm surprised with the apparent help you are getting and that this thread hasn't been closed well before now.

godskitchen

I cant believe the ISP thing has been raised twice already, they will never find out, there is no way they can. If your friend is happy for you to do this then go for it............I assume you are going to be splitting the cost of the broadband with him, so you are still paying for it.

I do understand why ISPs dont like this, but its unpoliceable. They can tackle this problem once the fraudsters and pedophiles have been sorted out, not to mention torrent users, please dont use the old "I use it for Linux" poop.

To call it an ethical dilemma is taking the piss, I mean come on, choosing which child to feed in Sudan is a ethical dilemma.............sharing an internet connection with a friend/neighbour is a nice problem to have. Its a first world problem.

If there really is a problem with having this topic on the boards, change it to how to network between two houses, take out refs to the internet. Or is there some ethical dilemma in that too?

I, for one, welcome our new ISP overlords................

Boggles

IrishTLR wrote: »

Your understanding of the ISP contract is flawed. The contract will clearly state that you cannot share the internet connection with neighbours.

It doesn't matter which ISP you are with, I think they all state this in the contract.

This is an ethical dilemma as the ISP will more than likely may never find out, but what you are doing is still wrong and theft from the ISP. I'm surprised with the apparent help you are getting and that this thread hasn't been closed well before now.

Don't worry mate, I have sent the sketch of his house to the ISP overlords, won't be long now til they track him down.

RangeR

Boggles wrote: »

Don't worry mate, I have sent the sketch of his house to the ISP overlords, won't be long now til they track him down.

Deadly. Cheers. I was thinking I'd have to report it myself.

cormie

Godskitchen, thanks again, great info there. I think if the crimper is going to be €35 I'll just sweet talk them in the shop and get the cable there;)

What I meant to say about putting it through the ceiling, was that instead of having one cable, have 3: (the red is the cable)

Router <male>

---

<male><female>--ceiling--<female><male>

---

<male><downstairs laptop or 2nd router>

So if we ever need to remove the cable for whatever reason (I move house/he moves house), that we don't leave a big cable running from one house to another, so we can just disconnect it from the female at his skirting board/my roof if you get me. Is this possible and if so, will it effect speeds or anything?

I don't see this as an ethical issue at all. It's morally right to share.

godskitchen

I wouldnt use the female idea, they are always trouble and this might be no exception!

You dont want to break up the cable if at all possible, its just more things to go wrong, the greatness of Cat5 is in its simplicity. What I would do is if either of you move, cut the cable, much less hassle than adding a junction type box.

Again someone else might be able to advise you better on this, I can see why you want to put a junction box in, its just more work and as I said it could cause problems, but you wont know until you try.

cormie

Ok cool

Well some good news anyway, you see I had the router in my place for the past few weeks because it seemed to work for both of us better than when it was in his place (do waves travel up better than down? Who knows!) well one thing we never tried was to put it in the room just under his, and just above me, we just tried and we're both getting the signal fine

And now he's not breaking his contract, I just happen to be picking up a signal from my router that happens to connect me to the intranetationzone!

Hopefully it will remain good for us both anyway!

snaps

@cormie

Before spending money on cable, crimpers etc, try moving the wireless router to different places in room house. Also check both laptops and router are on full power (Some have power settings to reduce battery consumption) Also try different channels your wirelless router is broadcasting on. I share my wireless router connection with both my eldelry neighbours on both sides of my house. I moved my wireless router to different parts of an upstairs room (Middle upstairs room of my house on window sill) and got the signal just right for everywhere. Even to the back of my back garden its useable. If you need telephone extension cable to connect to phoneline, this is very cheap!

My linksys wireless routers antennas are pointing at 11am and 1pm, which i find gives better signal instead of them pointing straight up.

If you want cables, i use these to companies (google for SVP and Kenable). Both these companies are cheap, fair on postage and usually dispatch same day. I very rarely use anyone else for bits and bobs.

Good luck mate.

Ponster

Nothing to say but well done to Godskitchen to giving up their time and making such concise and constructive posts.

cormie

Yeah, great info and easy to follow.

Snaps, I did just that (read my post above yours ) and it worked, so now it's great for us both, no need to go drilling holes or anything now

If it does get bad again, I'll just go with the cable way.

Just one thing though, sometimes, the connection drops and it wont come back again until the router is unplugged for about a minute and then plugged back in. Can the same effect of whatever happens when it's plugged out, be achieved remotely using the router ip address, like just now for example I had to go up to his house (I have a key) and do the unplug thing and it's working fine now. If I could just go to the IP address and do it there it would be handy

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Is it the internet connection that drops and not the wifi connection?

If so, then you might be able to log into the managment console of the router (probably 192.168.1.1 or 192.18.1.254) using any html browser and reboot it from there. You wont be able to simulate the unplugging for a minute though;) but it might work.

The managment site is likely to be password protected btw.

cormie

Yep it is the internet connection, the wireless icon says the signal is excellent, but you open up Firefox and it gives a blank page, you unplug for a minute and then it comes back.

Will rebooting it lose any security info on it like the WPA keys and all that so they'd have to be re-entered each time? Could be easier to just unplug if that's the case

Ponster

Rebooting won't result in losing any info unless you manually reset it.

Depending on the firmware installed on the router you may be able to figure out why it's losing it's connection by taking a look at its logs.

Most routers also allow you to ping website addresses from the router enabling you to test if the problem is the PC -> router connection or the router -> ISP

cormie

That all sounds a bit complicated

I'll just check out rebooting from IP and if I can't, I'll just unplug it, no big issue really it doesn't happen too often

Red Alert

Presumably you're quite entitled to link two LAN's (i.e. for the purposes of file transfer or multiplayer gaming) assuming one doesn't access the other's internet?

godskitchen

No problem re the help, it has not helped here but someone searching in the future may benefit from what has been said.

I am glad you can now both get signal, I know what its like to be within a cats whisker of picking up a good signal, it can drive you mad...........its funny how we let silly things like that bother us! Its not a problem really, in the grand scheme of things.

I guess it could be the fact that 802.11a/b/g is a pretty poor standard, in my opinion, and we keep being promised faster/further only to be stopped by a window or wall or cow or sheep, depending on location.

Also you wont ever need to wire now, if you have good signal now not much will get in the way of that. Saying that, knowing Wifi, if your neighbor was to carpet his floor it could ruin everything!!!!! Ha poor Wifi, its not that bad really.

snaps

make sure the router is switched to "Always on" and not "Data activated" Is it a linksys? if so i had same problem but a firmware upgrade solved this problem. Also mate you could try right clicking on your wireless connection icon near the clock in bottom right corner and select repair the connection, sometimes this saves a reboot.

cormie

Cool thanks again folks