Ten Reasons Why Blu-Ray is Already Doomed

IamBeowulf

1.Pricing

Retail Stores charge €30-50 per title.

Some stores do 3 for 2 or €20 Each but this is rare.

Websites are somewhere in between.

2.Range


Many films are still unavailable, due to its infancy and Universal and Dreamworks’ exclusivity contract with HD-DVD.

A substantial number of titles lack the extras of their standard-def DVD counterparts. Double-dip anyone?

3.Playability

PS3 or Blu-Ray player---either of which are at least €399.

4.Reliability

Many issues:

Long load-up times (except on PS3 admittedly)

Recalls over software/hardware incompatibility (Pirates of the Caribbean)

Version Incompatibilities (v1.0/1.1 etc...)

Alleged Disc Rot

Frame Rate Judder---24fps video playback on 25fps LCD/Plasma/CRT causes visual problems. 24fps-compatible sets are expensive.

5.Technology

Requires HDTV and Dolby TrueHD system to see/hear difference. Otherwise identical to DVD.

To afford the above, €800-1k minimum required.

6.Comparison

DVD and Blu-Ray look the same on an SD-CRT.

Upscaled DVD looks almost as good as Blu-Ray on HDTV. Why pay so much for so little extra?

7.Public Awareness

DVD hit like a storm, shaking the home video VHS scene asunder. People knew exactly what they were getting---non-degrading A/V on a lightweight portable disc. As for Blu? All they hear is HD. Do they really comprehend? And do they care?

8.Region-Lock

Sony despise open markets. A large amount of Blu-Rays are locked. Blu is apparently hard to hack.

World movie collectors would be dissuaded.

9.Intermediacy

VHS to DVD was a big jump from analog to digital storage. It was also a cool jump. It was fashionable to hold a shiny movie in your hand. It captured imagination.

Next true step is to download.

10.So what factor

Really, HD is relative. 575p DVDs aren’t that far off 720p Blu-Rays (most people use 720p TVs so calm down shouters!)

2k and 4k TV is only around the corner. As is Super Hi Vision. And Laser TV. And...

You get the picture?

aidan_walsh

The one thing that would be the killer for me with HD DVD is if they ever passed the change to the spec that would add the third standard definition layer to the disk. I like the idea of not having to buy my entire collection again when I upgrade the player.

yoyo

Unfortunately it looks like blu is on the way to winning the war, I'm saying unfortunately as I would prefare being able to buy cheapo HD DVD media for backing up stuff on my pc than paying the over the odds price sony WILL be charging for blu, DVD Forum (HD DVD) has itself to blame in this I think though, very little advertising done, not coming up with the 51gb spec as aidan_walsh said sooner and not battling in the war in fairness, were xtra vision and Chartbusters only going to be renting Blu before all this anyhow, Blu could loose, but atm I highly doubt it, at least hard disk prices are cheap enough now though

Nick

Ghost Train

while i get what youre saying,
a lot of those things were/are true of dvd and also hd dvd

region locked, relitively expensive, some disk rot stories, backing of some but not all studios, first hd-dvd players were very slow

a lot of people have hd tv and want to watch their movies in hd... it technically possible to build a player that will support all the current formats, so buying into one format isn't that big a risk long term. Future formats will hopefully offer backward compatibility with dvd and current hd media. Playstation 3 is high end gaming system plus blu ray player... competes strongly with xbox at all levels... price, performance etc. It's at a price point where it's relitively good value

i think the american market will probably be what decides or what happens to the hd formats, hdtv over there has been around longer and there has been a hude market waiting for hd dvds of some type

Slaphead07

I hear Warners have dropped their support for HD and are now backing Blu-ray. It looks like blu-ray is the soon to be the only game in town.

xanthor

Blu-Ray hasn't made the impact Sony expected... that doesn't mean it's doomed though.

Slaphead07 wrote: »

I hear Warners have dropped their support for HD and are now backing Blu-ray. It looks like blu-ray is the soon to be the only game in town.

...on top of which allegedly Paramount had a get out clause stating that they can drop HD-DVD support if Warner do.

As for pricing....... Blu Ray discs cost 40 euro or so becasue high street stores in this county pad prices. Most discs are region free and are easily imported. If you're patient you can get good deals locally too.


TVs with 24FPS support aren't cheap.... but unless it's a film which is very heavy on panning shots you'll have to look quite hard to spot judder.

Kintarō Hattori

IamBeowulf wrote: »

6.Comparison

DVD and Blu-Ray look the same on an SD-CRT.

Upscaled DVD looks almost as good as Blu-Ray on HDTV. Why pay so much for so little extra?

With that quote I have to ask you do you have a Blu-Ray player? I have a 32" 720p Panasonic LCD and a Playstation 3. There is a world of difference between how a well mastered Blu-Ray disc looks as opposed to an upscaled DVD.
Myself and the missus were watching Planet Earth the other day. She isn't remotely technical and even she was remarking on how sharp and clear the picture was.

I don't have an amp that's capable of processing HD Audio so for the moment I'm listening to my Blu-Ray's with Dolby Digital and I can certainly hear a world of difference. The audio is less compressed compared to a DVD and you can hear it.

stevenmu

To be fair it's not as if they could bring out a disc format that can magically transform your existing TV into a HD set and grow surround speakers around your room. Technology moves forward and if you want the best available sometimes you have to buy new equiptment to go with it. Not to mention that a lot of people have gone out and bought HDTVs anyway, admitedly many of them just want to get a flat panel, but why wouldn't they want HD media to go along with that?

HD discs may cost a lot in high street stores but:
A) High street stores here are complete rip-off merchants, I was looking around a game store recently and they were selling 2nd hand "next-gen" games for the same price as new ones, €70+ :eek: Much better deals are available online
It's still a new technology, disc prices will come down a lot over the next year or so. I think prices at the moment are similar to what DVDs would have been at first

Kev_ps3

rubbish.. blu-ray is the future. Ive got lots of blu-rays and they are much better then dvds. Excellent picture quality and uncompressed surround sound. I buy all mine on the net so the price isnt bad, usually 20 to 27 euro for each movie. dvd sales are dropping and people are buying HD ready tv's. They will want to make the most of it and watching HD movies is the answer.

As for pricing....... Blu Ray discs cost 40 euro or so becasue high street stores in this county pad prices.

You'd be a fool to pay 40 euro. Get it on the net for half that. Plus, I got a blu-ray in HMV over the xmas for 24 euro and they are know to be the most expensive so its not that bad.

big_moe

i agree with eo980.

i have a Panasonic 42" plasma with a very good Pioneer upscaling DVD player and a PS3. i bought the new Harry Potter film on DVD & Blu Ray and there is no comparison. the upscaled DVD does look good, but nothing compared to the Blu Ray version. i have seen some crap blu ray films though, Monster House, and the picture difference between that and an upscaled DVD might be negligible, but with a good blu ray its much better than DVD.

adam

xanthor

big_moe wrote: »

i have seen some crap blu ray films though,

Agreed. Some tranfers are better than others.

Kev_ps3

The picture is only 50% of what blu-ray actually it. Have a listen to uncompressed PCM, DTS-MA or DTHD. Ive got the lastest Onkyo 605 amp that can play these and they sound fantastic. Much better than dvd. Casino Royal is one of the best.

mathias

I think blu ray will win because it has the future capacity , its able to hold 3.5 hours of Digital 4K on a 4 layer disk and can do that now, something HD-DVD was lacking in , I would imagine the movie studios and the flat panel TV companies were looking ahead when making blu ray their favourite.

The 150 inch panasonic demo'd at CES shows what way TV's are going , that set is a 4K set , ( making rubbish of 1080p's " full hd" moniker) and Blu ray is the only HD disk format capable of expanding to multilayer high capacity formats which will be needed for such high resolution content.

HD audio is excellent if you have the amp and speakers for it. Theres no doubt about that , also if you have the right set HD looks amazing and its very hard to go back to watching SD after it.

As to its future , well its true people are or at least were happy enough with DVD's , however its also a fact that anyone buying a new TV now is going to be getting a HDTV , there simply arnt any other kind , and with the format war all but over , HD content will most likely be looked for and bought on Blu ray , I think the format will have a future , though downloading may take over as a distribution medium I think professional studios and the like will still use it.

shayser

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

The picture is only 50% of what blu-ray actually it. Have a listen to uncompressed PCM, DTS-MA or DTHD. Ive got the lastest Onkyo 605 amp that can play these and they sound fantastic. Much better than dvd. Casino Royal is one of the best.

What player have you got?

IamBeowulf

eolhc wrote: »

while i get what youre saying,
a lot of those things were/are true of dvd and also hd dvd

region locked, relitively expensive, some disk rot stories, backing of some but not all studios, first hd-dvd players were very slow

a lot of people have hd tv and want to watch their movies in hd... it technically possible to build a player that will support all the current formats, so buying into one format isn't that big a risk long term. Future formats will hopefully offer backward compatibility with dvd and current hd media. Playstation 3 is high end gaming system plus blu ray player... competes strongly with xbox at all levels... price, performance etc. It's at a price point where it's relitively good value

i think the american market will probably be what decides or what happens to the hd formats, hdtv over there has been around longer and there has been a hude market waiting for hd dvds of some type

I only berate Blu-Ray because I truly believe HD0DVD has fought the good fight and lost to a lesser foe.

Yes alot of people have HD becuse they were told HDTVs are the future. Now they're going to buy into Blu-Ray because it's the picture and sound of perfect, according to Sony. But they conveniently neglected to mention that in fact, 4k is the future. That disc movies are slowly becoming redundant. And that downloads are the cheaper, handier replacement on the way in.

Alot of bribery and deceitful propoganda has brought Sony to the top. DAMN1

mathias

Yes alot of people have HD becuse they were told HDTVs are the future. Now they're going to buy into Blu-Ray because it's the picture and sound of perfect, according to Sony. But they conveniently neglected to mention that in fact, 4k is the future. That disc movies are slowly becoming redundant. And that downloads are the cheaper, handier replacement on the way in.

Thats an interesting comment there , 4K I would personnally believe , is indeed the future , but blu ray was the only disc tech. Featured at CES this week of being able to actually hold 3.5 hours of 4K content on a single disk. ( demo'd with the 150 inch Plasma from panasonic.)

HD dvd was nowhere near that capacity , so I dont believe that blu ray lost to a better foe , technically , for now and future requirements , blu ray looks to have a very long life , HD DVD , given bandwidth an capacity requirements for the future , could only have ever been a stepping stone.

IamBeowulf

mathias wrote: »

Thats an interesting comment there , 4K I would personnally believe , is indeed the future , but blu ray was the only disc tech. Featured at CES this week of being able to actually hold 3.5 hours of 4K content on a single disk. ( demo'd with the 150 inch Plasma from panasonic.)

HD dvd was nowhere near that capacity , so I dont believe that blu ray lost to a better foe , technically , for now and future requirements , blu ray looks to have a very long life , HD DVD , given bandwidth an capacity requirements for the future , could only have ever been a stepping stone.

Sorry what I'm getting at is this: Sony are getting greedy. First they introduced a HD disc, then a TV format to match. Now 4k will need a 4k TV, disc or no disc. And we're the suckers letting it happen.

tman

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

You'd be a fool to pay 40 euro. Get it on the net for half that. Plus, I got a blu-ray in HMV over the xmas for 24 euro and they are know to be the most expensive so its not that bad.

Damn right!
I spotted the 2 disc version of Bladerunner for €40 in HMV, but ordered the region free 5 disc version for €23 (ish) from amazon.com. It pays to shop around for blu-ray movies, just as it does with dvds and games.

I love point 8. The reek of anti Sony fanboism is almost overpowering...

IamBeowulf

tman wrote: »

Damn right!
I spotted the 2 disc version of Bladerunner for €40 in HMV, but ordered the region free 5 disc version for €23 (ish) from amazon.com. It pays to shop around for blu-ray movies, just as it does with dvds and games.

I love point 8. The reek of anti Sony fanboism is almost overpowering...

I just speak my mind:)

IamBeowulf

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

The picture is only 50% of what blu-ray actually it. Have a listen to uncompressed PCM, DTS-MA or DTHD. Ive got the lastest Onkyo 605 amp that can play these and they sound fantastic. Much better than dvd. Casino Royal is one of the best.

Exactly the problem. When DVD came out you could see and hear the difference on a 14" telly, never mind a home cinema. This time round, you need a fully up to date and rather expensive kit to really reap the benefits. I doubt most users would even be aware of lossless codecs and what they mean.

IamBeowulf

xanthor wrote: »

TVs with 24FPS support aren't cheap.... but unless it's a film which is very heavy on panning shots you'll have to look quite hard to spot judder.

I'm not being awkward but I see it quite clearly. I do have very picky eyesight, but it was something I noticed before I heard of the 24fps issue, so I know it wasn't my imagination. I'm probably the minority.

My whole point with this was that Sony expected to replace DVD with this format, but it just isn't possible, and they're going to lose alot of money.

dc69

IamBeowulf wrote: »

1.Pricing

Retail Stores charge €30-50 per title.

Some stores do 3 for 2 or €20 Each but this is rare.

Websites are somewhere in between.

2.Range


Many films are still unavailable, due to its infancy and Universal and Dreamworks’ exclusivity contract with HD-DVD.

A substantial number of titles lack the extras of their standard-def DVD counterparts. Double-dip anyone?

3.Playability

PS3 or Blu-Ray player---either of which are at least €399.

4.Reliability

Many issues:

Long load-up times (except on PS3 admittedly)

Recalls over software/hardware incompatibility (Pirates of the Caribbean)

Version Incompatibilities (v1.0/1.1 etc...)

Alleged Disc Rot

Frame Rate Judder---24fps video playback on 25fps LCD/Plasma/CRT causes visual problems. 24fps-compatible sets are expensive.

5.Technology

Requires HDTV and Dolby TrueHD system to see/hear difference. Otherwise identical to DVD.

To afford the above, €800-1k minimum required.

6.Comparison

DVD and Blu-Ray look the same on an SD-CRT.

Upscaled DVD looks almost as good as Blu-Ray on HDTV. Why pay so much for so little extra?

7.Public Awareness

DVD hit like a storm, shaking the home video VHS scene asunder. People knew exactly what they were getting---non-degrading A/V on a lightweight portable disc. As for Blu? All they hear is HD. Do they really comprehend? And do they care?

8.Region-Lock

Sony despise open markets. A large amount of Blu-Rays are locked. Blu is apparently hard to hack.

World movie collectors would be dissuaded.

9.Intermediacy

VHS to DVD was a big jump from analog to digital storage. It was also a cool jump. It was fashionable to hold a shiny movie in your hand. It captured imagination.

Next true step is to download.

10.So what factor

Really, HD is relative. 575p DVDs aren’t that far off 720p Blu-Rays (most people use 720p TVs so calm down shouters!)

2k and 4k TV is only around the corner. As is Super Hi Vision. And Laser TV. And...

You get the picture?

thats all ****e,the average person buying a blu ray player and 1080p television is not gona be your average joe.they are film buffs who are prepared to spend big dosh on discs,player and tv's.2k and 4k point is only relevant apart from the fact that technology changes everyday,if we were to hold off for the latest technology no-one would buy anything as there is always something better around the corner.someone would be a bit of a tool if they bought a blu ray player to play on a sd-crt.your points are valid if its old granny getting conned but the reality is most people who buy into this stuff can afford it and at the moment its the best pic quality your gona get.All most people want is hd television,sky broadcast a maximum of 1080i,so i would like you to predict when they will make this 4k,2k jump,becuase i reckon it wont be for at least 10 years if it does happen.

xanthor

IamBeowulf wrote: »

Alot of bribery and deceitful propoganda has brought Sony to the top. DAMN1

IIRC, Paramount stood to get a fair chunk of change from Toshiba. I do commend you on the sharp eyesight though. As for Sony taking a financial loss on Blu-Ray.... it's too early to call it success or failure. There's no doubt it's had a shaky start though.

Kev_ps3

IamBeowulf wrote: »

My whole point with this was that Sony expected to replace DVD with this format, but it just isn't possible, and they're going to lose alot of money.

It just isnt possible?! Why isnt it possible?!
Its expensive, every new technology is!! Get over it.
They have just about won the format war and you say they are going to lose alot of money?! I think it is Toshiba that are going to lose alot of money!

Joe_Soap

What about that billion dollar industry that nobody buys anything from?? i.e. Porn. Isn't that all going to be HD-DVD as Sony are threatening Blu-ray manufacturers that they don't want porn released on blu-ray. VHS v Betamax battle was decided by this industry...

Kev_ps3

Joe_Soap wrote: »

What about that billion dollar industry that nobody buys anything from?? i.e. Porn. Isn't that all going to be HD-DVD as Sony are threatening Blu-ray manufacturers that they don't want porn released on blu-ray. VHS v Betamax battle was decided by this industry...

There is porn on bluray! And there is more coming! The porn industry is going to be bringing out more and more filth on bluray!

big_moe

i dont think the porn industry will swing the outcome of Blu ray vs HD-DVD.. as most people know now, porn is downloaded, not bought!

IamBeowulf

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

It just isnt possible?! Why isnt it possible?!
Its expensive, every new technology is!! Get over it.
They have just about won the format war and you say they are going to lose alot of money?! I think it is Toshiba that are going to lose alot of money!

Kev, first of all, I'm lucky enough to have a PS3, so there's nothing to "get over". Secondly, I believe that Sony dreamed of putting a Blu-Ray player into pretty much everyone's home (mostly via PS3) and reap nearly all the profits. This clearly won't happen as the HD revolution has been a bit of a stop-start. They have invested hundreds of millions into a product that only the tech-savvy are truly interested in.

Kev_ps3

IamBeowulf wrote: »

Kev, first of all, I'm lucky enough to have a PS3, so there's nothing to "get over". Secondly, I believe that Sony dreamed of putting a Blu-Ray player into pretty much everyone's home (mostly via PS3) and reap nearly all the profits. This clearly won't happen as the HD revolution has been a bit of a stop-start. They have invested hundreds of millions into a product that only the tech-savvy are truly interested in.

Why do you say "this clearly wont happen"? What about in a year or two when players come down to dvd player prices? Or when you see more and more blurays in the shops? Or when big releases like Star Wars come out on bluray, im sure more than the ''tech savvy'' will want to see it in hi-def on their hd tv's.

IamBeowulf

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Why do you say "this clearly wont happen"? What about in a year or two when players come down to dvd player prices? Or when you see more and more blurays in the shops? Or when big releases like Star Wars come out on bluray, im sure more than the ''tech savvy'' will want to see it in hi-def on their hd tv's.

It took a good 4 or 5 years for DVD players to approach VCR price. By the time Blu does the same, downloads and VOD will be everyone's main priority due to the serious decrease in cost of production.

po0k

And we'll still be starved of bandwidth.