A story for ye

eoin5

There once was a person who truely believed the Earth was flat, and this person went around telling everyone that the world was round. He would not hear of anything different and stonewalled everyone who tried to debate it with him. Science told everyone that the world was flat at the time, so the guy was considered a lunatic. When he finally realised what he truely believed to be true they had locked him up and forgotten about him.

In his solitude he desperately tried to understand why he went around telling everyone the world was round when he really believed it was flat.

Was it that he needed something to be different?

Was it that his form of logic only concluded the world was round and logic is better than belief?

Was it that he didnt want to believe that the world was flat and tried to convince himself by convincing others that the world was round? Was he too weak to change his true beliefs without involving everyone else in the process?

Was it that his mind had been imprisoned by years of someone ritually trying to convince him that the world was round?

Was it that aliens/ghosts/the darkside made him do it?

Was it because he...

Eventually he really did go mad as he just couldnt figure it out. What do you think his problem was?

biko

eoin5 wrote: »

There once was a person who truly believed the Earth was flat, and this person went around telling everyone that the world was round.
...
Eventually he really did go mad as he just couldn't figure it out. What do you think his problem was?

That he didn't follow his true belief that the Earth was flat? Why would this person go around telling everyone that the world was round?

eoin5

biko wrote: »

That he didn't follow his true belief that the Earth was flat? Why would this person go around telling everyone that the world was round?

True, but he was self-delusional and he only became aware of it when he had built it up so far as to get him put away. Something made him self-delusional and messed up his beliefs, anyone guess what it might be?

Nature Boy

Drugs?

Dades

eoin5 wrote: »

Eventually he really did go mad as he just couldnt figure it out. What do you think his problem was?

He was a spanner?

This better have a point.

growler

I blame the parents.

eoin5

Dades wrote: »

He was a spanner?

This better have a point.

Yes he was a total spanner.

I made it up on a suspicion I have. I wonder how many supposed theists who go around trying to convert atheists are really just atheists who want to believe or feel they must make themselves believe for some reason (theres heaps of possible reasons). I'm especially suspicious of those guys who wont enter into a proper discussion on the topic and just quote scriptures and fortell scary stuff. For someone like that the isolation must be extreme, on the one hand you have the theists who he/she would play along with without really being a part of it and on the other side theres the atheists that they cant have a real discussion with. I think this is one of the ways that religion can drive people crazy.

I dont really know why I made that stupid story up, seemed like a good idea at the time :S

Bottle_of_Smoke

heh, i actually thought you were going for the polar opposite in some sort of estebancambias momemt of genius, that there's loads of Athiests going around trying to get people to stop people being religious because they themselves unconsciously believe in God but really don't want to.

DinoBot

Personally I think there are loads of reasons why someone would want to believe in religion and likewise why some people don't. But I think if you break it down the answer is the same for both.
They think it will make them happy.

At the end of the day we are all pretty much the same. We want the same things out of life, to be happy and for our family to be happy ( end of hippie rant )

As long as a belief in god is making someone happy they will not question it too much, as soon as it becomes an unhappy situation for them then they will take action (or ignore it). In my experience this applies for people coming from belief to non-belief and the other way round as well.

Dades

DinoBot wrote: »

As long as a belief in god is making someone happy they will not question it too much, as soon as it becomes an unhappy situation for them then they will take action (or ignore it). In my experience this applies for people coming from belief to non-belief and the other way round as well.

Nicely put (I concur)!

Dave!

I'm not sure I buy that DinoBot... Personally I don't, and never had, any strong emotional feelings relating to religion. I believed by default, because I was brought up in that manner. I prayed a few times... when my nana died... when I took communion I would try make sure she was okay... when I had to stand up in front of the class and give a presentation (funnily enough, god got me out of that one! and for that I am eternally thankful ¬_¬). But once I was old enough to give it some serious thought (and I did give it serious thought! I grew totally distracted in school!), it just didn't make any sense. There was no happiness or unhappiness about it -- I just realised how silly it was.

eoin5

DinoBot wrote: »

Personally I think there are loads of reasons why someone would want to believe in religion and likewise why some people don't. But I think if you break it down the answer is the same for both.
They think it will make them happy.

At the end of the day we are all pretty much the same. We want the same things out of life, to be happy and for our family to be happy ( end of hippie rant )

As long as a belief in god is making someone happy they will not question it too much, as soon as it becomes an unhappy situation for them then they will take action (or ignore it). In my experience this applies for people coming from belief to non-belief and the other way round as well.

Yea its the action that they take when they are unhappy thats the complicated bit. Its not like everyone can just stop believing in something because it doesnt make them happy anymore, its dependant on so many factors. For one many religions are designed so that unhappy people throw themselves further into it to try and find happiness, and sometimes they do, but its sortof a formula for religious nuts who are overdependant on it.

DinoBot

DaveMcG wrote: »

I'm not sure I buy that DinoBot... Personally I don't, and never had, any strong emotional feelings relating to religion. I believed by default, because I was brought up in that manner. I prayed a few times... when my nana died... when I took communion I would try make sure she was okay... when I had to stand up in front of the class and give a presentation (funnily enough, god got me out of that one! and for that I am eternally thankful ¬_¬). But once I was old enough to give it some serious thought (and I did give it serious thought! I grew totally distracted in school!), it just didn't make any sense. There was no happiness or unhappiness about it -- I just realised how silly it was.

I think the main point there is that there was no happiness in it for you.
Im not saying people need to be unhappy with it to want to leave it, just not find happiness in it.
In your case it seems you saw your life to not need religion and therefore your happiness didn't depend upon it, so you stopped.

eoin5 wrote:

Yea its the action that they take when they are unhappy thats the complicated bit. Its not like everyone can just stop believing in something because it doesnt make them happy anymore, its dependant on so many factors. For one many religions are designed so that unhappy people throw themselves further into it to try and find happiness, and sometimes they do, but its sortof a formula for religious nuts who are overdependant on it.

Again the only reason people do throw themselves into religion is because they think it will make them happy. The reality is of course that it may not.

eoin5

DinoBot wrote: »

Again the only reason people do throw themselves into religion is because they think it will make them happy. The reality is of course that it may not.

I agree with you. Another possible action for an unhappy religious person might be to blame another religion for his/her problems and try to wipe them out. This goes for the other side too, an atheist blaming religion for all the problems in the world and trying to wipe religion out.

The more individual a persons notions are and the more isolated a person is the more drastic his/her ideas about being happy become, and if he/she gets a following the danger increases. Our new society of I is a good breeding ground for this.

In the story the reason he went totally mad was because he tried to figure out how to be happy all by himself and stonewalled everyone elses views. He should have had open discussions with other people.

jtsuited

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

in some sort of estebancambias momemt of genius,

my favourite type of genius.

here comes my second infraction:D

karen3212

eoin5 wrote: »

The more individual a persons notions are and the more isolated a person is the more drastic his/her ideas about being happy become, and if he/she gets a following the danger increases. Our new society of I is a good breeding ground for this.

.

Hey did you see the post in another thread, by AD18, basically saying that a tight knit community is more likely to be able to dehumanize an outgroup etc... so a bit of isolation may be a good thing for people, every now and then like...

eoin5

karen3212 wrote: »

Hey did you see the post in another thread, by AD18, basically saying that a tight knit community is more likely to be able to dehumanize an outgroup etc... so a bit of isolation may be a good thing for people, every now and then like...

Close knit communities with power are a big problem for all involved. Everyone needs some time by themselves. The type of isolation I'm talking about though is someone who goes around society without really interacting with it.