goretex jacket any good?

avalanche

hi. im pretty new to the world of outdoor gear so bear with me. ( i recently had a post about fleeces ) I am not a big climber although i do sometimes go for treks in the mountain. my question is this: are goretex jackets any good? i have seen a nike acg goretex which has been reduced from 350 to 200 and i was wondering if it would be a good investment to pick it up? or a waste of cash for an amateur like me. im thinking it could last for a lot of years or is this just wishful thinking.?? any advice( again ) much appreciated.

also has anyone ever picked up a goretex in asia etc i.e a fake one.? they only cost around 30 but im presuming they arent worth it??

thanks

Donny5

Gortex is amazing stuff, and really works. That said, 200 quid for an outdoor jacket is madness. Get some army surplus wetgear, and an M65 jacket for a lot less. M65 for warmth, throw the wetgear on when it rains.

fergalr

my question is this: are goretex jackets any good?

Yes, but it's a bit compliacated.
You generally need a shell layer when in the hills.
It's main purpose is keeping you fairly dry when it's very rainy, and stopping the wind from making you too cold when it's very windy.
Lots of fabrics will do this, that are drasticly cheaper than goretex. For example, a standard rain jacket.
These cheaper fabrics are non breathable.
What's nice about the goretex is that it's breathable as well as water/windproof.

This means that if you sweat, because you are exercising, the sweat can escape through the jacket, while the jacket still keeps the rain off you. With non-breathable fabrics, while they will keep the rain off you and stop the rain wetting you, your sweat will condense on the inside of the jacket and soak you just as much as the rain would.

That's the theory anyway. When you are moving at more than a certain intensity (eg running) even a goretex jacket isn't breathable enough to let all the sweat out, and your going to get wet (or have to open jacket to vent the sweat, and thus expose yourself to the rain). So, when doing high intensity exercise it doesn't really matter how breathable your fabric is (you are probably warm enough even when wet anyway).


But for hill walking, a well designed goretex jacket should allow you to stay fairly dry as you walk. This is because it'll keep the rain off you, and also allow enough sweat to pass through the jacket so that you don't get wet from the rain or your sweat. And that's what you pay for.

There are other breathable fabrics out there which are cheaper than goretex, and do a pretty good job too, but none of them are way cheaper, as far as I'm aware (in other words, you are not going to find a good waterproof/breathable jacket for 20euro. At 20 euro, you are in the region of non-breathable fabrics).

How much you value spending the extra money on the goretex, or other breathable fabric, depends on what you're going to use it for.

I've certainly had situations on hillwalks where if I had a non breathable jacket I'd have been wetter - and thus colder on subsequent stops - than with a breathable one.

i have seen a nike acg goretex which has been reduced from 350 to 200 and i was wondering if it would be a good investment to pick it up?

I have very little experience with Nike ACG gear.
I saw a few in the Nike outlet store in kerry a week ago that were very much reduced in price. I wasn't impressed though, they seemed to be very heavy and bulky, and just not well designed, but that's a subjective opinion based on seeing one particular jacket.

also has anyone ever picked up a goretex in asia etc i.e a fake one.? they only cost around 30 but im presuming they arent worth it??

I would guess that chances are this is not breathable gear, and isn't any better than a normal 30 euro rain jacket would be.
I guess it's possible that people are producing breathable jackets at that price in asia, I don't know enough about production - but I'd be very careful.

That said, 200 quid for an outdoor jacket is madness.

I dunno if I agree with that (having spent almost that before!) That's certainly the ballpark being charged in normal outdoor retailers for a decent jacket. Also depends on whether you are buying just a light shell, or a big jacket.

I got a very nice gortex lowe alpine shell jacket for 120e in a sale a week ago (sport corran tuathail), and you can find gear cheaper in the states, or on the internet (watch out for fakes on ebay), so shop around - some of the prices charged for gear (particularly goretex jackets) in the irish high street outdoors shops is certainly mental. (200% of what you can pay on the internet from reputable dealers).

M65 for warmth, throw the wetgear on when it rains.

That's another good point.
A lot of people when buying a jacket just get a very light shell layer (very thin, no insulation, just keeps the wind and rain off), and use fleeces, down etc for their insulation.
This is what I do, as it allows a lot of flexibility, and means the jacket dries faster, and you can switch to a different fleece.

But it depends on your uses, some hill walkers seem to get a lot of value out of a big outdoors jacket with shell and lots of insulation as one.


I would recommend buying a shell layer which just keeps the wind and rain off you. If you have lots of money, go for goretex, but shop around.
You can make do with a non breathable fabric too, just expect to be a little wetter/colder in certain situations.

avalanche

hi, thanks very much for the feedback. very helpful. yes it is very expensive for me but i do think that sometimes you have to pay a bit for quality. i know that sounds like a sucker but the fact that it is almost half price appeals to me a bit. again a sucker. im just looking for something that does the job and that i will have for sometime. it is a shell and i do have a fleece or two which i plan to wear under it should i need to. thanks again. im going to wait another week to see if it goes down some more but reckon i will pick it up.

Donny5

Fergal has some good points there. I wouldn't agree with everything, thought.
For one thing, I would never spend 200 quid on a jacket. It won't be good value, you'll be paying for a brand, and it won't last. I don't know your level of hill walking/mountaineering, but kit never lasts. Something always happens, it gets torn on rocks, or branches, or something.
Layering is best, some kind of wicking base layer. Then a fleece, weather dependent. On top of that, I use a wind shirt when it's dry, and a breatheable jacket when it's wet. Army surplus is always a good place to look. Brit, French and Yank wet gear is great value, 80 quid for an unworm breathable set, and it will last longer than any branded stuff. Worried about visibilty, stick some reflectors on the arms, or something.
Try ebay, or asmc.de.
The UK wet gear is goretex, and most milspec stuff has ripstop.

avalanche

some good points there donny.thanks

it does make me wonder how much money these guys make when you consider that they can sell a jack for 200 reduced from 350. the profit margin must be massive. as you say. paying for a brand.

peter-pantslez

well have to say i shelled out(no pun intended) 200 on a north face gortex jacket and ripped the sleeve while climbing 3 days later.

but you can buy goretex repair patches in most good out door shops and you can bearly notice the repair and its as good as new now.

but go for the fleece and the shell layer much better flexibility wise especially when its one of the horrible days when its hot out and raining, you can take the fleece off and still stay dry.

fergalr

For one thing, I would never spend 200 quid on a jacket. It won't be good value, you'll be paying for a brand, and it won't last. I don't know your level of hill walking/mountaineering, but kit never lasts. Something always happens, it gets torn on rocks, or branches, or something.

Yeah, fair point - have to say though, while I've been through countless rain trousers (last one last week), have never had a jacket rip - maybe because the time I'm usually wearing one is in exposed areas where theres little to rip it on, or maybe I've just been fortunate.

I didn't realise standard issue army wet ware was goretex/breathable.
Wouldn't usually buy army gear anyway, as it tends to be a bit on the heavy side, but I guess that's what your getting at, it's designed to last.

Brit, French and Yank wet gear is great value, 80 quid for an unworm breathable set, and it will last longer than any branded stuff.

Can't see anything on asmc.de that looks like it's goretex wet wear - am I missing it, or does their stock change? Got any other sites? How do you find the army surplus shops in town?
(found this: http://www.asmc.de/en/Clothing/Wet-weather-jackets/french-wet-weather-jacket-p.html can't tell if it's goretex though)

I bought a bivvy bag from ebay before that was supposed to be goretex, and from use, it seems to be, but I'm always hesitant as it's hard to be sure what your getting.

Layering is best, some kind of wicking base layer.

I always use a layering system.
Came across this buffalo stuff recently, was wondering if anyone has experience with it in the Irish hills and how it compares? http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/

Donny5

Yeah, fair point - have to say though, while I've been through countless rain trousers (last one last week), have never had a jacket rip - maybe because the time I'm usually wearing one is in exposed areas where theres little to rip it on, or maybe I've just been fortunate.

It's always the bloody trousers that go.

I didn't realise standard issue army wet ware was goretex/breathable.
Wouldn't usually buy army gear anyway, as it tends to be a bit on the heavy side, but I guess that's what your getting at, it's designed to last.

Most of the Western armies stuff is some kind of breathable, alright. Best not to get a set of Irish, though. It's scarce (read: expensive), and it's not legal to wear, I gather. English stuff is better, and they do Olive Green stuff from the 90s

Can't see anything on asmc.de that looks like it's goretex wet wear - am I missing it, or does their stock change? Got any other sites? How do you find the army surplus shops in town?
(found this: http://www.asmc.de/en/Clothing/Wet-weather-jackets/french-wet-weather-jacket-p.html can't tell if it's goretex though)

The stuff I use from ASMC isn't goretex, but it's fairly breathable. It's athttp://www.asmc.de/en/Clothing/Cold-weather-jackets/Cold-weather-jacket-Coupe-Vent-Polar-CCE-camo-p.html.
It is CCE though, and I gather for many people camo is a bad thing.

I bought a bivvy bag from ebay before that was supposed to be goretex, and from use, it seems to be, but I'm always hesitant as it's hard to be sure what your getting.

I got my bivvi bag on ebay, too. If it's the brit one, olive green and about 8 foot long with a draw-stringed opening wide enough for Mary Harney, then it is goretex.

bitemybanger

TK Maxx have loads of real good outdoor wear including Gore-tex.
some items are more than half the price you would pay in an specialist shop.

peter-pantslez

fergalr wrote: »

I always use a layering system.
Came across this buffalo stuff recently, was wondering if anyone has experience with it in the Irish hills and how it compares? http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/

i have a buffalo pertex half zip top and its comes everywhere with me i swear by it.

it has zips up the side so you can let air in and with all zips closed up its like having your duvet wrapped around you. its also shower proof.

a mate of mine got one when he was going to russia during their winter and he was delighted that he did get it it kept him warm in minus 10 weather.

BeardyGit

fergalr wrote: »

I always use a layering system.
Came across this buffalo stuff recently, was wondering if anyone has experience with it in the Irish hills and how it compares? http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/

They've been using it on the Dublin-Wicklow mountain rescue team for years - I've had mine for about a year now. It's superb kit and well worth the outlay. If you're going for something like that, you simply MUST follow the instructions though and use it as a single layer, relying on the various zipped openings and so on the regulate your temperature. Trust me - I've spend hour after hour getting pissed on wearing my Buffalo and nothing else on top. It works.

I've actually gone for a different brand for my personal kit as it's a bit heavier duty, and warmer, for those really cold winter days in Finland - when I break the rule and wear a base layer underneath it:

http://www.montane.co.uk - Look at the 'Extreme smock' in the mountain lite part of that catalogue.

The Great Outdoors carry stock on both brands, and will pretty much match any online price available if you can get the 10% MCI/Student/OAP etc discount from them.

Cheers,

Gil

bbbbb

I'm a fan of goretex. Would suggest you stay away from the big brands like North face, Berghaus etc. I bought a single layer Aigle jacket in Arnotts years back & it's lasted well. My father is still using the noname gortex jacket I passed on to him at the time.

Was in Vietnam & bought a "North Fake". Looked good, all the stitching, zips etc. were of good quality. Unfortunately the first heavy shower a few months later showed it wasn't goretex.

IPNA

Layering.

This is the real trick to staying warm. You can spend 500e on a nice system and still freeze.
Start with a light weight silk layer top and bottom. Then move to a light fleece. Then a heavy fleece or better a wool layer. Top it off with a wind breaker or Gortex if you must have it.

Over the years I have slowly switched to only wool. Even if it gets wet, it still keeps you warm. There are wool fabrics now that are so tightly woven that they repel water. www.kingofthemountain.com

Never ever ever wear cotton. A lot of the military kit is cotton. Many people have been found frozen to death wearing jeans. Don't be that guy!

Hope this helps.

pirelli

IPNA wrote: »

Layering.

www.kingofthemountain.com

Never ever ever wear cotton. A lot of the military kit is cotton. Many people have been found frozen to death wearing jeans. Don't be that guy!

Hope this helps.

I like the sport of hunting but what a dutch bastard. That sheep didnt deserve to be killed for its horns. Dont be that GUY!

IPNA

Pirelli,

I can't be held responsible for the hunting practices of the americans.

The point is to wear a good quality wool layering system.

pirelli

IPNA wrote: »

Pirelli,

I can't be held responsible for the hunting practices of the americans.

The point is to wear a good quality wool layering system.

You are responsible because that website is spefically for hunting and hunting with horses.

The pitch from the 'texas ranger '(with his foot on a dead deer ) end in this sentence,

And more importantly wool absorbs water and radiates the heat in the water back to you DRY! But doesn’t it itch

Wool is warmer per weight but other fabrics dry faster. Steve house used Pantogonia capilene a manmade fabric to summit the nanga parbat. Obviously The Texas Ranger is right because essentially when hunting the body produces burst's of running and periods of crouching and stalking where wool is ideal as the sweat generated in the exertion can freeze when stopping and crouching for long periods while hunting in cold temperatures. On the other hand Capilene (for example) means keeping dry at all costs and these fabrics dry quicker. In mountain climbing you control your exertions and modern fabrics can be more useful as a dry body is a warm body.


Interesting fact learned from King of the mountain
The 'texas ranger' states that only wool radiates heat back to the body opposed to the dozens of modern fabrics available that in his words require body heat to wick the sweat away and this deprives the body of that 100% vapour temperature i.e heat which the 'Texas ranger' implies doesnt radiate back to the body.!

Brilliant Hunting gear but lets talk Mountain gear.

Evil Phil

Try and stay on topic here folks: we're discussing outdoor wear not the ethics of hunting.

Evil Phil

pirelli banned for a week.