Average Speed Cameras for M1?

ballooba

Users of the M1 may be familiar with the gantry signs currently under test which display current journey times between fixed points on the motorway.

Irish Times 10.01.2008 wrote:

The system uses automatic number-plate recognition technology to recognise vehicles as they pass traffic cameras and calculate journey times. Such systems are routinely used in the UK to detect speeding motorists. The NRA said the system would not be used for detecting speeding vehicles during the test process.

The NRA says the cameras will not be used for average speed detection for the moment but doesn't rule out the possibility in the future. I think average speed cameras would be a positive step. There is the temptation to speed on that road because it is so good. This will make overtaking easier and hopefully will be combined with efforts to keep people in the driving lane.

godtabh

I wish they would use them

eringobragh

I'd prefer if they policed roads that have a higher accident rate rather then the usual shooting fish in a barrell / guaranteed revenue :rolleyes:

Cool. I can fly by the first camera at the top of final gear, pull over have a nap for 10 minutes on the hard shoulder then continue my high speed run past the next camera;)

L1011

Yay, I love having random mathematical distractions figuring out how fast I can go past the second SPECS camera outside Newry (where it starts measuring in a 60 zone that you rarely get above 40 on; and has at least a mile of 70 zone in it)

blackbox

There should be no speed limits on this excellent road.

However I would not object to the cameras being used to monitor for dangerous or inconsiderate driving such as driving in the overtaking lane when not overtaking, or driving too fast for the weather conditions.

Unfortunately nobody seems to care about safety - they only want to be seen to care about it - hence the emphasis on speed limits and cameras.

UK road deaths are lower than in Ireland, but they were not reduced further by the extensive use of speed cameras over the last number of years.

The Gambler 101

completely agree black box! the m1 is an excellent road and i think it should be made a 140-150kmph limit!

unless your overtaking it should the law to drive in the left lane.

just the other day i was headin north bound on the m1 in very heavy rain and the lot of cars in the fast lane were overtaking a lorry and some impatient clown in a van who thinks hes michael schumacher flew up the inside of about 5 cars and dived across to get out, this muppet could have caused a massive pile up!

lucky for him, he dived across a ww reg volvo which happened to be an unmarked squad car!

ballooba

blackbox wrote: »

There should be no speed limits on this excellent road.

blackbox wrote: »

Unfortunately nobody seems to care about safety - they only want to be seen to care about it - hence the emphasis on speed limits and cameras.

The problem is with the range of speeds. It's safer if everyone is travelling within a certain small range of speeds. It's unsafe to overtake when going much faster than the car being overtaken.

blackbox

ballooba wrote: »

The problem is with the range of speeds. It's safer if everyone is travelling within a certain small range of speeds. It's unsafe to overtake when going much faster than the car being overtaken.

Bearing in mind that if you really want to be safe you'll never go out, it's not unsafe if both cars are in their correct lanes (and all other normal precautions such as visibilty, road conditions, etc. have been taken into account).

Overtaking with a speed difference of 50 km/hr on a motorway is safer than driving at 30km/hr on a single carriageway with oncoming traffic also doing 30 km/hr.

ballooba

blackbox wrote: »

Bearing in mind that if you really want to be safe you'll never go out, it's not unsafe if both cars are in their correct lanes (and all other normal precautions such as visibilty, road conditions, etc. have been taken into account).

Overtaking with a speed difference of 50 km/hr on a motorway is safer than driving at 30km/hr on a single carriageway with oncoming traffic also doing 30 km/hr.

Forgetting the 'safer than X' argument. A speed difference of 50km/h is not ideal. It's difficult for you to predict the other drivers behaviour and likewise them yours.

P.s. The bolded segment is unecessary and unhelpful for sensible debate.

E92

blackbox wrote: »

There should be no speed limits on this excellent road.

Much and all as I'd love ther to be no speed limits on Motorways, it's never going to happen because of enviornmental pressures and because of our fantastic driving ability. No speed limits would not work here because we can't drive properly. In Germany where they can drive properly, they work extremely well and are very useful for getting from A to B a lot faster.

I think Motorways should have a speed limit of 140 km/h here though, but I'd much rather they reclassified all those Dual Carriageways that are built to Motorway standard to Motorways and gave them speed limits of 120 instead.

If they're serious about road safety, they wouldn't bother enforcing speed limits on Motorways and Dual Carriageways, and go on all the back roads instead, and accident black spots, and enforce speed limits there instead.

If our Motorways are built to the same standard as UK Motorways, then the design speed of them is 160 km/h, so clearly speeds as high as 160 km/h are perfectly safe there then.

starn

Id like to see the police use the average speed cameras, but no nessacerially on the motorway. It would make a lot more sence to deploy them on more dangerous back roads that the cops bever seem to patrol. They would beutterly pointless on the M1. Which is argueablly the safest road in the country

MrPudding

starn wrote: »

It would make a lot more sence to deploy them on more dangerous back roads that the cops bever seem to patrol. They would beutterly pointless on the M1. Which is argueablly the safest road in the country

I have to disagree with you here. It would, in fact, be utterly pointless to have them on the back roads. Very very few people will exceed the speed limits on the back roads, in most cases it is simply not possible. The problem on the back roads, like most roads, is not illegal speeding but inappropriate speeding. You could have a corner on a back road that you are perfectly entitled to negotiate at 80kph but it might not physically be possible to get round at anything approaching that speed.

If you stretch this out over a 5 mile section covered by a SPECS system you could easily find a section of road you can’t get down in anywhere near an average speed of 80kph.

This is my main problem with speed cameras and where I come into conflict with a number of posters in this board. I do not believe that breaking the speed limit is automatically dangerous and I further believe that not every instance of breaking a speed limit should be punished (except in urban areas where I think speed limits should be viciously enforced.)

I am more concerned with inappropriate speed. I strongly believe that the majority of problems on the road which are allegedly caused by speed are actually caused by inappropriate speed or other factors. As speed cameras cannot detect inappropriate speed, though in some cases they could if the method of operation was changed, I believe they are of limited value in improving road safety.

I also happen to be against removing speed limits on motorways, even if they do have the highest safety records of any road type.

MrP

Ginny

The Gambler 101 wrote: »

unless your overtaking it should the law to drive in the left lane.

You're taught this as part of the rules of the road, so since it's included is it not law?

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/motorway.html

ZygOte

MYOB wrote: »

Yay, I love having random mathematical distractions figuring out how fast I can go past the second SPECS camera outside Newry (where it starts measuring in a 60 zone that you rarely get above 40 on; and has at least a mile of 70 zone in it)

are they the big yellow ones over the road? i thought they were just used by police for surveillance not speed detection of any kind? how do they work? explain a little please

Stark

ZygOte wrote: »

are they the big yellow ones over the road? i thought they were just used by police for surveillance not speed detection of any kind?

They've like a zillion signs saying "average speed cameras ahead" coming up to them...

ZygOte wrote: »

how do they work? explain a little please

They record your reg and time at the first set, reg and time at the second set, calculate the difference, then divide length of the road between the cameras by the time. Distance/time = speed.

blackbox

MrPudding wrote: »

I also happen to be against removing speed limits on motorways, even if they do have the highest safety records of any road type.

Why?

The rest of your post seems to contradict this.

MrPudding

blackbox wrote: »

Why?

Mostly because the level of driving skill shown in Ireland is atrocious. Lane discipline is a phrase that means nothing to the vast majority of drivers. The combination of drivers that do not have any comprehension of the limits of their abilities, drivers that drive slowly with no lane discipline, drivers with crap cars and little ability trying to max out their car and driver with good cars trying to max them out is a recipe for disaster.

blackbox wrote: »

The rest of your post seems to contradict this.

I don’t think so, well, maybe a little. I genuinely do think that limits are important. There are a lot of driver that do stick to them. Some of these drivers probably should not be on the road as they are a danger to themselves, and more importantly, others. If speed limits keep these people travelling at sensible speed them that is a good thing ™.

I am against speed detection dressed as road safety. I am also against excessive speed detection on safe roads where prosecuting driver for breaking a limit does little or nothing for road safety. That does not mean I think people should be able to travel at whatever speed they want.

MrP

ZygOte

Stark wrote: »

They've like a zillion signs saying "average speed cameras ahead" coming up to them...

i have been meaning to get my eyes tested! :rolleyes:

Sandwich

Apparantly they are going to be used to display travel times to a few destinations and trafiic jam warnings.

murphaph

Sandwich wrote: »

Apparantly they are going to be used to display travel times to a few destinations and trafiic jam warnings.

http://www.nratraffic.ie/vms/default.asp

geoseeker

Its useful to prevent drivers slowing down when they know they are coming up to a speed camera - this gets them if they speed between cameras, any where for 3 - 5 mile stretch at a time. Now installed along the N4..............

dingding

Where are they installed on the N4

P.C.

geoseeker wrote: »

Its useful to prevent drivers slowing down when they know they are coming up to a speed camera - this gets them if they speed between cameras, any where for 3 - 5 mile stretch at a time. Now installed along the N4..............

You dug up a four and half year old thread to say that?????