Is it illegal to park on a speed ramp?

daymobrew

Recently the local developer painted double yellow lines on the road around our estate (near Coolmine train station in Dublin 15). The road is not taken in charge. This was done to eliminate commuter parking.

Signs were posted on the railings alongside this road with warnings of clamping (120 euro release fee) and "this estate is not a park and ride facility".

One driver has been parking on one of the speed ramps on this road. The double yellow lines are not on the speed ramps.
Yesterday this driver was clamped.

I mentioned this at my residents association and I believed that this parking location was not illegal but others said that parking on a traffic calming measure is illegal. I don't recall seeing this in the RoTR. Anyone know the statute or SI that covers this?

Aside: there was no sticker or other info left on the car to tell the driver how to get unclamped. That is really manky.

steveland?

In one of my first driving lessons I ended up stopped on a speed bump in traffic, asked the instructor if it's a "bad thing" driving-test wise to stop on a speed bump and he said there's no problem stopping on one.

On my road there's speed bumps every hundred yards or so and they stretch all the way to the path. They're outside people's houses so I can't imagine it's illegal for these people to park right outside their house on the speed bumps.

It does, however, sound like that part of the road was still under the double yellow lines they just hadn't painted them over the speed bump and yer man was being cheeky.

I doubt it's illegal to park on one but it sounds like this one should've had the double yellow lines painted over it.

markpb

If the road is a private road it's not covered by the RTAs and not enforced by the city clampers so it's up to the owners of the road to decide the reasons for clamping.

daymobrew

markpb wrote: »

If the road is a private road it's not covered by the RTAs and not enforced by the city clampers so it's up to the owners of the road to decide the reasons for clamping.

The road is open to the public. It's a through road (Riverwood Road between the roundabouts [Riverwood Ct is incorrectly marked]).

Yes, it is a private company doing the clamping (we are well outside Dublin City Council area - it's Fingal CC here).

markpb

I don't think being open to the public and public road are the same thing but I could be wrong.

Depends whether the road has been "adopted" by the local county council, Unadopted roads are (I believe) treated like private roads, speed restrictions etc technically not enforcible.

daymobrew

Deleted User wrote: »

Depends whether the road has been "adopted" by the local county council, Unadopted roads are (I believe) treated like private roads, speed restrictions etc technically not enforcible.

"not taken in charge" = "not adopted"
I think that we've had issues with RTA enforcement because of the private status of the road. Very frustrating. Darn Castlethorn Construction.

corktina

you can paint as many yellow lines as you like but they only have a legal basis if the Council approves them...(order in council is it?) so its a civil matter between the Estate owners and amnagers and the person parking....

Tipsy Mac

These clampers operating on private estates are not licensed and so a car owner is perfectly in their rights to cut off the clamp, nobody except those licensed by the state has a right to fit a clamp to a car. Nobody has ever went to court or will go to court for interfering with an illegally fitted clamp.

Del2005

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

These clampers operating on private estates are not licensed and so a car owner is perfectly in their rights to cut off the clamp, nobody except those licensed by the state has a right to fit a clamp to a car. Nobody has ever went to court or will go to court for interfering with an illegally fitted clamp.

I don't think you can cut them off, they are someones property and you can be sued for criminal damage. But if you can remove the clamp without damaging it them they can do nothing about it.

Victor

daymobrew wrote: »

I mentioned this at my residents association and I believed that this parking location was not illegal but others said that parking on a traffic calming measure is illegal. I don't recall seeing this in the RoTR.

Can they demonstate this? Its up to them to show its illegal. I somehow suspect ramps aren't mentioned in legislation.

However, its a private road. While the road traffic acts apply to the behaviour of traffic, they don't apply to the road itself. Any nuisance parking is a trespass, not a RTA offence. While double yellow line of a stop sign are well understood, what happens if I decide to draw, oh say, chevrons on the road? Do we suddenly import French law on the matter?

daymobrew

Victor wrote: »

Can they demonstate this? Its up to them to show its illegal. I somehow suspect ramps aren't mentioned in legislation.

None of them could confirm that they saw it mentioned in legislation or in the RoTR. I too suspect that it is not in legislation and therefore not illegal.

I'll see if someone in Blanchardstown Garda station knows.

Tipsy Mac

Del2005 wrote: »

I don't think you can cut them off, they are someones property and you can be sued for criminal damage.

I suppose but they are also interferring with your car which is also unlawful, for me anyways if would be a call to Sam Hire and an angle grinder that would be coming out for it, regardless of consequences

Some "professional companies" (very loose term here) just use clamps made from scrap as they almost expect them to be cut off!

Del2005

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

I suppose but they are also interferring with your car which is also unlawful, for me anyways if would be a call to Sam Hire and an angle grinder that would be coming out for it, regardless of consequences

Yes they are illegally refusing you the right to use your car, but again they own the clamp. So you can't damage their property same as they can't damage yours. If they clamp you and in doing so damage your car you can sue. On calling Sam Hire, would you do the same if a car was blocking you in, it's essentially the same thing?

Many years ago where my father worked, this car was frequently parked on a corner making it difficult to get the lorries in & out of the works.

The owner was frequently asked to park elsewhere (30m down the road - loads of space), My dad in the end got the fork lift and moved the car. He didn't park there again

Victor

Del2005 wrote: »

Yes they are illegally refusing you the right to use your car, but again they own the clamp.

The car is trespassing. Warnings of clamping are usually given.

Is there really a difference between clamping a car and locking a car park gate? Is locking the gate "illegally refusing you the right to use your car"?

That said, I would like the Oireachtas to regularise the situation, possibly through the Private Security Authority. www.psa.gov.ie

jjbrien

What I would say is speak to your local TD Leo Varadkar he lives right next to coolmine staions in Rosehaven thoese appartments across the road from where these clamps are been put on. He should be able to tell you the state of play with these clamps and the full legaliy and final coco's postion on them.

By any chance are they in Luttrell Park which the estate both sides of the road where you say these yellow lines are. I used to live in Lutrell Park and i can tell you this estate was never handed over to the council it is still run by the devloper. So if its in Luttrell Park the and the developer put them in there then they might be entitled to do this. Contact Leo he should be able to tell you it was him who told me this when we had some problems in Luttrell Park before.

daymobrew

jjbrien wrote: »

By any chance are they in Luttrell Park which the estate both sides of the road where you say these yellow lines are.

No, the double yellow lines are on Riverwood Road, west of the Riverwood pillars.

The car was parked on the ramp between Riverwood Park and Riverwood Court.

Wishbone Ash

daymobrew wrote: »

The road is open to the public

markpb wrote: »

I don't think being open to the public and public road are the same thing but I could be wrong.

Deleted User wrote: »

Depends whether the road has been "adopted" by the local county council, Unadopted roads are (I believe) treated like private roads, speed restrictions etc technically not enforcible.

A Public Road is a road, of which the maintenance of, is the responsibility of a Local or National Authority. Whether it is open to the public or not is irrelevant.

For example, the roads within Dublin Airport are open to the public but they are maintained by the DAA. Any speed checks there are conducted by the Airport Police, not the Gardai and if there is an RTA within the airport grounds, the Airport Police respond first and subsequently summon the Gardai if required.

jjbrien

daymobrew wrote: »

No, the double yellow lines are on Riverwood Road, west of the Riverwood pillars.

The car was parked on the ramp between Riverwood Park and Riverwood Court.

I know where it is and I think the road is still controlled by the developer. From what i learned a while back the roads in the area have not been handed gover to fingal coco as there is alot of problems with the area and the way the area built by the developer so I think what wishboneash said it correct they are perfectly entitled to clamp you as its not run by the council.

Victor

Oh, one thing. Some people like to drive around speed ramps. Especialy those with lowered car bodies.

daymobrew

Victor wrote: »

Oh, one thing. Some people like to drive around speed ramps. Especialy those with lowered car bodies.

When I heard about the ramps I asked Castlethorn to make speed cushions rather than full width ramps. I often do cycling training on the road (for short duathlons) and was concerned that speed ramps would damage my racing bike. They ignored me (FCC said that full width ramps were put in because Dublin Bus said that they would not be using that road).

Having said that, the Castlethorn ramps aren't so bad on the bike. They have a nice smooth entry angle. I cannot say the same for the two ramps recently installed by Fingal County Council. Harsh in a car and worse on a bike.
And I've never gone over 50kmph on my bike (or car).

murphaph

daymobrew wrote: »

I'll see if someone in Blanchardstown Garda station knows.

lol. As if they're going to know.