Ashton names the Vainikolo in 6N squad

mc23

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/english/7174905.stm

EdgarAllenPoo

In all fairness if I was coaching France or Ireland I don't think I'd be losing much sleep over Aston's selections.

Stev_o

GDM wrote: »

In all fairness if I was coaching France or Ireland I don't think I'd be losing much sleep over Aston's selections.

I dunno overall its a decent squad that has the potential two win i think he's right not using too many young players and blooding them all together in the 6N this squad looks like a squad that wants to win. On the other hand some people he's picked such as Joe Worsley Tom Rees and Mark Cueto havent been impressive in a long while so why they are there is beyond me.

With Lesley well im presuming he's the guy they are going to put on at 50 minutes to win the match for them and he possibly can do that he'll have defenses having a nightmares all day long. Should be very interesting

toomevara

Vainikolo will be a huge threat. As a Leeds Rhinos fan, the guys been the bane of my life but I have had the pleasure/pain of seeing him up close on a number of occasions for the Bradford bulls. Immense talent, brilliant ball handling skill and lomu-esque power. He'll terrorise any team he plays against.

LeeroyJones

ye this got me thinking can Mafi play for Ireland in a few years-this is his 3rd season in Ireland. I wouldn't throw him into the starting 15 but if he could qualify then its an extra option at 12 come 2011. He's played for New Zealand at U-19/21 so is that him out of the question?

as for the England squad, I wouldnt call it their best ever but it's decent-looking forward to seeing Cipriani though

Podge_irl

LeeroyJones wrote: »

ye this got me thinking can Mafi play for Ireland in a few years-this is his 3rd season in Ireland.

I think so but I hope he never does. Ignoring the fact that I don't think he's good enough, I dislike the residency qualification rule - at the very least 3 years is too short a time for it.

Worrytahs

toomevara wrote: »

Vainikolo will be a huge threat. As a Leeds Rhinos fan, the guys been the bane of my life but I have had the pleasure/pain of seeing him up close on a number of occasions for the Bradford bulls. Immense talent, brilliant ball handling skill and lomu-esque power. He'll terrorise any team he plays against.

Oh dear..........;)*










*From a long-suffering Nth Sydney Bears fan (ah, them were the days)

toomevara

Worrytahs wrote: »

Oh dear..........;)*
*From a long-suffering Nth Sydney Bears fan (ah, them were the days)

More of a Rabbitohs man meself...don't hold it against me....Come on Leeds!...only 3 weeks to the new season...sweeett....

dc69

i think the only plus is if horgan and carney are the two wingers we play,i would have confidence in either of them stopping him.other teams might not have the luxury of big wingers

zAbbo

I watched him a few times this season, undoubted talent, but seriously suspect defence.

We could pop balls over his head into their 22 all day long from what I've seen, and if RoG is back to form - there is no better man.

I also dislike the residency rule.

JWAD

zabbo wrote: »

We could pop balls over his head into their 22 all day long from what I've seen, and if RoG is back to form - there is no better man

I love these descripts (and how so far off the mark they are). "He might score loads of tries and be a powerhouse as well as creating a stir hence an increased interest in the sport and the team but he's slow on the turn" :rolleyes:
The fact that a team might deem the only way to beat him is by kicking away possession would already be a plus in my book.
People tend to forget that kicking the ball down his wing is nothing new to the guy. He's a winger who excelled in a sport where every set of six a kick would be sent his way.

toomevara

I agree with you re: his defence, think alot of that is down to the switch from League, would expect it to improve. The thing about the guy is that no matter how indifferently he plays, (and he can seem really nonchalant, like Lomu in his heyday) he always scores tries, its almost uncanny, so yeah he may cost you one, but he'll score you two..

This guy scored 5 tries on his Union debut against Leeds Carnegie and I watched him in action against the Rhinos last year before the switch, one of the meanest defences in the super league, and he skittled the leeds defence like ten pins. Always takes at least two to put him down and stands up and off loads in the tackle beautifully...think as an impact player in the 6N he'll do well...

And I'd echo JWAD's comments, while he can be slow to turn, he is comfortable under high balls..well used to it....just needs to acclimatise himself more to the tactical requirements of Union.

Ulstermell0

seen enough of this guy to know he is a threat - not sure to what extent yet tho.

The residency rules are a farce - also bit of a snub to his native tonga or have they turned him down.

I know he played league for NZ but aren't tonga more of a union nation??

I see Gerraty isnt part of Ashton's plans - any chance he could get in Eddie's side d'you reckon? would you want him?

dub_skav

Ulstermell0 wrote: »

seen enough of this guy to know he is a threat - not sure to what extent yet tho.

The residency rules are a farce - also bit of a snub to his native tonga or have they turned him down.

I know he played league for NZ but aren't tonga more of a union nation??

I see Gerraty isnt part of Ashton's plans - any chance he could get in Eddie's side d'you reckon? would you want him?

Geraghty played for England last year, so no chance of him playing for Ireland unfortunately.

Ulstermell0

ahh i wasnt quite sure of the rules - once you've played you cant switch?

dc69

Ulstermell0 wrote: »

ahh i wasnt quite sure of the rules - once you've played you cant switch?

I think the rule is once you play for the senior team which geraghty played for last year you can switch,inciddently he played for ireland up until the age of 16 i think

Shan75

Ulstermell0 wrote: »

seen enough of this guy to know he is a threat - not sure to what extent yet tho.

The residency rules are a farce - also bit of a snub to his native tonga or have they turned him down.

I know he played league for NZ but aren't tonga more of a union nation??

I see Gerraty isnt part of Ashton's plans - any chance he could get in Eddie's side d'you reckon? would you want him?

I also think the residency rules are ridiculous.It makes a mockery of the pride people have in playing for their country but even worse is to choose to play for a country that you were not born in and never lived in so on that note I would not want Geraghty to play for Ireland.We had our time looking to foreigners to make up our team and we really should be trying to produce our own team.In this regard I think New Zealand in particular are a joke as they poach many players from Samoa, Fiji,Tonga etc.

Stev_o

Shan75 wrote: »

I also think the residency rules are ridiculous.It makes a mockery of the pride people have in playing for their country but even worse is to choose to play for a country that you were not born in and never lived in so on that note I would not want Geraghty to play for Ireland.We had our time looking to foreigners to make up our team and we really should be trying to produce our own team.In this regard I think New Zealand in particular are a joke as they poach many players from Samoa, Fiji,Tonga etc.

Jezz always with the New Zealand poaching anytime residency question comes up. Believe they dont poach 9/10 players who are pacfic born players moved to New Zealand when they were small and played their rugby there. Now they have a choice 1.Declare for the most professional team in the world earn a living support all your family 2. Declare for your native land with a Union that has no financial backing and not get a contract with a professional team therefore back your bags and move to France and England.
Those players CHOSE to play for New Zealand for those reasons no other reason if the pacific unions werent such a joke they would play for their birthplace

Shan75

Stev_o wrote: »

Jezz always with the New Zealand poaching anytime residency question comes up. Believe they dont poach 9/10 players who are pacfic born players moved to New Zealand when they were small and played their rugby there. Now they have a choice 1.Declare for the most professional team in the world earn a living support all your family 2. Declare for your native land with a Union that has no financial backing and not get a contract with a professional team therefore back your bags and move to France and England.
Those players CHOSE to play for New Zealand for those reasons no other reason if the pacific unions werent such a joke they would play for their birthplace

You are correct in a way of course but I'm just wondering if it is only financial satisfaction these players get from playing for NZ or is there national pride also.The reason of international sport is to represent your country and it's people and I don't like this great concept being watered down for the sake of money.

Stev_o

Shan75 wrote: »

You are correct in a way of course but I'm just wondering if it is only financial satisfaction these players get from playing for NZ or is there national pride also.The reason of international sport is to represent your country and it's people and I don't like this great concept being watered down for the sake of money.

Because alot of them grew up around poverty alot of their families dont have alot of money so what they do is send money back home to support them. But as iv said most of them would have grown up in Nzl

Worrytahs

Shan75 wrote: »

In this regard I think New Zealand in particular are a joke as they poach many players from Samoa, Fiji,Tonga etc.

Maybe take a little time to investigate where a huge percentage of the Fijian, Tongan and Samoan teams actually hail from.

Apart from Sivivatu I can't think off the top of my head many other All Blacks who weren't brought up in UnZid. If people go on the 'where you're born' premise then Ronan O'Gara for example should be lining out for the US Eagles.

Shan75

Worrytahs wrote: »

Maybe take a little time to investigate where a huge percentage of the Fijian, Tongan and Samoan teams actually hail from.

Apart from Sivivatu I can't think off the top of my head many other All Blacks who weren't brought up in UnZid. If people go on the 'where you're born' premise then Ronan O'Gara for example should be lining out for the US Eagles.

I said born or grew up in that country and O'Gara grew up here.As for New Zealand we all know they have had many non New Zealanders through the years although I agree they don't have too many at present.As I also said though our own record in this regard is not a proud one.In the nineties we had many English players in our team and also had Brian Smith who had already gained caps for the Australian National team.Even now with all the back-row players we have we still have an Englishman(Simon Easterby) in our team.What is the point of having a national team if all the players are not from that country?

Ireland,New Zealand,Italy,France and Japan are the worst as far as I can see over the years for having too many foreign players on the National teams.Australia also have had a few.

greatdeeds

Each year a step closer to full covergence to Rugby League

Reckon now is about the time they impose weight/size limits.....including schools rugger...

Bring a bit of flair and raw talent back into it

HUUUGGGEEEE:D

Ulstermell0

Stev_o wrote: »

Those players CHOSE to play for New Zealand for those reasons no other reason if the pacific unions werent such a joke they would play for their birthplace

Of course they CHOSE to play for NZ no ones suggesting they were forced into it. They are just glory hunters who are keeping the game the preserve of less than a dozen nations

Maybe if these superstar players played for their home countires then thier teams wouldn't be such a joke?

Worrytahs

Shan75 wrote: »

I said born or grew up in that country and O'Gara grew up here.As for New Zealand we all know they have had many non New Zealanders through the years although I agree they don't have too many at present

So who on the All Blacks of, and I'll give you a generous timeframe here, the last 20 years was not born or even brought up in New Zealand?
I look forward to this list.

Worrytahs

Ulstermell0 wrote: »

Of course they CHOSE to play for NZ no ones suggesting they were forced into it. They are just glory hunters who are keeping the game the preserve of less than a dozen nations

Maybe if these superstar players played for their home countires then thier teams wouldn't be such a joke?

The thing is this sport is their profession. Not a vocation. If someone is brought up in the likes of New Zealand and wants to play for them (and is good enough) then who the hell is anyone to tell him who he should and should not play for if he qualifies to do so?
The likes of Tiaan Strauss/Patricio Noriega 'repatriations' will be no more as you cannot switch countries anymore so players have to make a choice. Had the plethora of Kiwis who play for the Pac Islands teams never done so the teams would have been up the pooper and down the U-bend before you could say 'Kia Ora, Bruthah'

Shan75

Worrytahs wrote: »

So who on the All Blacks of, and I'll give you a generous timeframe here, the last 20 years was not born or even brought up in New Zealand?
I look forward to this list.

I am open to contradiction on these in relation to when they moved to NZ.I would also like to say that when you actually try to think of lots of players you can't so I am going to concede this one.


Va’aiga Tuigamala
Joeli vidiri
Olo brown
Alama ieremia
Isotolo maka
Saimone taumoepeau
Sione luaki
Jerry collins
Rodney so’oialo
Casey laulala
Jerome kaino
Sitiveni sivivatu
Sosene anesi
Isaia toeava

Worrytahs

Shan75 wrote: »

I am open to contradiction on these in relation to when they moved to NZ.I would also like to say that when you actually try to think of lots of players you can't so I am going to concede this one.


Va’aiga Tuigamala
Joeli vidiri
Olo brown
Alama ieremia
Isotolo maka
Saimone taumoepeau
Sione luaki
Jerry collins
Rodney so’oialo
Casey laulala
Jerome kaino
Sitiveni sivivatu
Sosene anesi
Isaia toeava

I'll tell you right away what I know as I work within rugby union myself.

Tuigamala, Vidiri, Brown, Ieremia, Maka (all of them), Lauaki, Collins, So'aialo (both of them), Kaino and Anesi all were brought up as kids in Noo Zulland.

What you've listed there is a group of players born outside NZ which is quite pointless if you dont bring into the equation when these people actually went to the country in question in the first place.
Spike Milligan was born in India. Was he Indian?
Andrew Symonds was born in the UK. Is he English?