combat

c-90

just question thats been on my mind for a while. i want to join the pdf and hopefully make a career out of it, but what are the chances of me actually seeing combat overseas. i wouldnt want to spend years trainning for something thats not going to happen.:o

Blazher

c-90 wrote: »

just question thats been on my mind for a while. i want to join the pdf and hopefully make a career out of it, but what are the chances of me actually seeing combat overseas. i wouldnt want to spend years trainning for something thats not going to happen.:o

Some would say you get more action in a nun's dress,

But the jokes aside, The IRISH are well trained, Well geared, and well Looked upon,

We don't see as much combat as some would like, But its the Job, if you want combat join the FFL or US Army

c-90

Blazher wrote: »

Some would say you get more action in a nun's dress,

But the jokes aside, The IRISH are well trained, Well geared, and well Looked upon,

We don't see as much combat as some would like, But its the Job, if you want combat join the FFL or US Army

its not that i want to see constant action, i want to join the IRISH army because im IRISH. just want to know that i would eventually use the training and not waste my life waiting for something thats not going to happen.

newby.204

Chances are no you wont but there are planty more things to do in the army than get shot at and shoot back!! I joined because its the only place to do the job im doing, and also my skin is awful sensitive to bullets, now having said that, I'll go where im told and if that happens to be a warzone then fine, however i wont be going looking for it either!!

ex_infantry man

well if your still alive after coming back from overseas then yes you have used your training and kept your wits about you while on a patrol expect the unexpected, like when the mission in liberia that was a peace enforcing mission and not a peace keeping, there was kids goin around high on drugs with ak47,s and that was successful and i,m sure there was a few fire fights that were,nt mentioned in the news, or for instants the peace keeping mission that was in east timor a few years back they got hit up during the night and a fire fight happened so yes you possibly could end up using your combat training

c-90

ex_infantry man wrote: »

well if your still alive after coming back from overseas then yes you have used your training and kept your wits about you while on a patrol expect the unexpected, like when the mission in liberia that was a peace enforcing mission and not a peace keeping, there was kids goin around high on drugs with ak47,s and that was successful and i,m sure there was a few fire fights that were,nt mentioned in the news, or for instants the peace keeping mission that was in east timor a few years back they got hit up during the night and a fire fight happened so yes you possibly could end up using your combat training

never heard of peace enforcing before. that gives me the confidence that i wont be wouldnt be wasting my time. whats your job newby?

ex_infantry man

yep it was a first for the irish army as its just usually peace keeping that we do!! if it was the yanks sent in they,d probably just blow the place up so i guess its the respect that the irish army give the locals was the main reason the role was given

Steyr

c-90 wrote: »

but what are the chances of me actually seeing combat overseas. i wouldnt want to spend years trainning for something thats not going to happen.:o

Well Chad is only around the corner and those terror groups in Chad have declared a war on all foreign Military assets going into Chad, but i dont know anybody who wants to come home in a box with the TriColour draped over it..

Manic Moran

c-90 wrote: »

never heard of peace enforcing before. that gives me the confidence that i wont be wouldnt be wasting my time. whats your job newby?

The UN distinguishes between Peackeeping and Peace Enforcing by the amount of support the local parties give to the UN Presence. If both combatant sides agree to the UN being there (eg Cyprus, Lebanon), then it's peace-keeping. If only one side (usually the legitimate government) agrees, then it becomes peace-enforcing as the intransigent side has to be beaten into submission (so to speak). (eg Congo, maybe Liberia)

if it was the yanks sent in they,d probably just blow the place up so i guess its the respect that the irish army give the locals was the main reason the role was give

The Yanks did go in first. They sent 2,300 Marines to Liberia, of which about a battalion all told actually got off the ships onto the ground. They withdrew when all the Nigerian forces of ECOMIL showed up. UNMIL (incl the Irish) took over from ECOMIL. The American departure was not too well received by the Liberians, but the Marines had other pressing engagements.

NTM

Lockstep

c-90 wrote: »

just question thats been on my mind for a while. i want to join the pdf and hopefully make a career out of it, but what are the chances of me actually seeing combat overseas. i wouldnt want to spend years trainning for something thats not going to happen.:o

I'm no expert here like most of the other people who frequent here, but the Irish army is mainly a peacekeeping one AFAIK.

A friend of mine's father was an officer for 30 years (mostly captain) and never had to fire on a person in his life.
He was fired on once in Lebanon while peacekeeping but that was it.

Company Sgt

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I'm no expert here like most of the other people who frequent here, but the Irish army is mainly a peacekeeping one AFAIK.

A friend of mine's father was an officer for 30 years (mostly captain) and never had to fire on a person in his life.
He was fired on once in Lebanon while peacekeeping but that was it.

kickoutthejams,youre right irish missions abroad are all mainly peacekeeping where you nearly have to get permission to fire back if you are fired at wheras there is a peace enforcement where you can fire

arybvtcw0eolkf

Oversea's missions for the Irish army have changed a lot since the old UNIFIL missions, pre- March 2000 when the IDF withdrew from South Lebanon and the South Lebanese Army (SLA/ Christian Defacto Foces) were disbanded.

Alot UNIFIL was a peace keeping mission, and the mandate operated under UN resolutions 425 & 426 was very restricted the Irish battlion seen almost daily combat in term's of engagements between various armed Lebanese elements (A.E.'s). in firings close to UN positions by anything from small armed, to tank rounds (H.E., solids, anti-pers) and motor rounds (120mm H.E. and illum's were a common occurance). And when the brown stuff hit the fan and the P.V. in Israel opened up then the villiages would be hit by 155mm M109 batteries. And finally occassionally air strikes, although personally I witnessed very few of these and only one up close.

When these incidents occured our SOP's were to fire two red flares to warn the people firing that they were firing on a UN position and then it was to get the troops into 'ground hog' (run for the bunkers and sit it out). UNless you were on duty, then you mantained a presence and reported all.

Fire fights in Lebanon involving the Irish battlion were not common place, but they did occure and would have been reported.

This brings me to the present situation.

Liberia, there were absolutely no exchanges of fire with the Irish army out there. Not one. Apart from liberating some hostiage (spelling?) from a village once there were no reported hostilities.

East Timor was deemed a successful mission and the Irish brought home a find reputation with them. Although alot of armed elements were captured most were done peacefully.

The Balkans has been a holiday camp.

Eritrea nothing happened.

Although UNISOM (Somalia seen some action). This was Ireland first peace enforcement mission.

Right to Chad.

We were talking about this in work the other day and one concern expressed is that most lads going out there have absolutely no combat experience what so ever as most are too young to have served in Lebanon (UNIFIL) during the busy 1980's and 90's. And that is a concern. Almost all the officer ranks from Captain down will NEVER have seen an aggressive action either by the Irish army or in the area of operations they've previously served, thats slightly worrying IMO as I served in missions since UNIFIL and have seen how naive their view's are on certain matter & I'll leave it at that.

And so although not lacking in training these days we are lacking in experienced lads who've experienced even low level combat.

cp251

I don't think it's very likely that you will see combat in the PDF. That's a good thing though. From what I've read and been told by people who were in combat, few want to repeat the experience although many are forced to almost every night in their dreams.

You are obviously very young to think you would like to be in combat, C-90. To be honest from what I've seen the army can be a satisfying career even if you never see action.

Manic Moran

Although UNISOM (Somalia seen some action). This was Ireland first peace enforcement mission.

I would argue that the Congo was, in practice if not actually in principle. However, given your point about low-level experience, you are correct as few Congo veterans are liable to be found in the Chad mission!

NTM

Blazher

Manic Moran wrote: »

I would argue that the Congo was, in practice if not actually in principle. However, given your point about low-level experience, you are correct as few Congo veterans are liable to be found in the Chad mission!

NTM

What was going around in work when chad came up was, they wanted to send them over to get exp. A few people from my rec platoon are going over and they are passed out less then six months,

c-90

cp251 wrote: »

I don't think it's very likely that you will see combat in the PDF. That's a good thing though. From what I've read and been told by people who were in combat, few want to repeat the experience although many are forced to almost every night in their dreams.

You are obviously very young to think you would like to be in combat, C-90. To be honest from what I've seen the army can be a satisfying career even if you never see action.

yes i am 17. nobody wants to get killed or hurt but im sure nobody wants to get top notch training to sit at some border with a gun when you know nothing will happen, which is clearly not the case. yes from what if read here the army seems to be exciting enough with out getting shot at:D

arybvtcw0eolkf

Guys I think there's some confusion about 'peace keeping' and 'peace enforcement'.

First off, regardless what mandate your operating under and Irish soldier can always fire in defence of his life, his comrades life etc (I don't need to list 'em do I?). And thats the same for 'peace enforcement' or 'peace keeping'.

For peace keeping there will normally be a semblence of peace in the area of operations before any troops go in, and usually they're in with the invitation of all warring parties. This differ's with peace enforcement as peace enforcement will always operate with a more robust mandate.

But just to re-enforce my point.

UNIFIL was a peace keeping mission, it didn't mean we spent our time swanning around the A.O. picking dasies & making love beads.

(visitor here, I'll follow this up later if anyone wants more info).

ex_infantry man

Mairt wrote: »

Right to Chad.

We were talking about this in work the other day and one concern expressed is that most lads going out there have absolutely no combat experience what so ever as most are too young to have served in Lebanon (UNIFIL) during the busy 1980's and 90's. And that is a concern. Almost all the officer ranks from Captain down will NEVER have seen an aggressive action either by the Irish army or in the area of operations they've previously served, thats slightly worrying IMO as I served in missions since UNIFIL and have seen how naive their view's are on certain matter & I'll leave it at that.

And so although not lacking in training these days we are lacking in experienced lads who've experienced even low level combat.

mairt your talking like you always had experience with combat well you had to start at the bottom when you first went to lebanon on your first mission with no experience in combat and as your probably well aware of that the training and equipment is 100 times better today than back twenty years ago the personnel are younger and fitter also and i,m sure are well up to the job required of them to do? well some of them anyway!!!!!

arybvtcw0eolkf

ex_infantry man wrote: »

mairt your talking like you always had experience with combat well you had to start at the bottom when you first went to lebanon on your first mission with no experience in combat and as your probably well aware of that the training and equipment is 100 times better today than back twenty years ago the personnel are younger and fitter also and i,m sure are well up to the job required of them to do? well some of them anyway!!!!!

I think your reading me wrong.

I first went to Lebanon in 1988, the mission had been established since 1978 (I think) so I went over with alot of experienced troops.

In the last eight year's our oversea's missions haven't been involved in awhole lot. Thats all I'm saying.

Equipt. levels are better now, the training certain is not and in some corp units its worse however thats nit-picking.

I'll just finish by saying that if I was going on an active tour now, somewhere I'd likely see combat I'd have preferred to have went with a more experienced army thats all.

We've had cushy trips lately and only time will tell if they've made lads soft.

ex_infantry man

Mairt wrote: »

I think your reading me wrong.

I first went to Lebanon in 1988, the mission had been established since 1978 (I think) so I went over with alot of experienced troops.

In the last eight year's our oversea's missions haven't been involved in awhole lot. Thats all I'm saying.

Equipt. levels are better now, the training certain is not and in some corp units its worse however thats nit-picking.

I'll just finish by saying that if I was going on an active tour now, somewhere I'd likely see combat I'd have preferred to have went with a more experienced army thats all.

We've had cushy trips lately and only time will tell if they've made lads soft.

sorry mairt i did pick you up wrongly i see where your coming from now!

Manic Moran

Mairt wrote: »

We've had cushy trips lately and only time will tell if they've made lads soft.

Honestly, I don't think I'd be too worried. There were similar concerns with the US Army given that the vast majority of troops in 1991 hadn't seen combat, and then again in 2003 only the mid-to-senior ranks had done any combat at all. (Plus concerns that Basic had gotten too soft). People were quite happy to note that the troops still followed their training, and as such were quite competent.

NTM

landylad

Mairt wrote: »

UNIFIL was a peace keeping mission, it didn't mean we spent our time swanning around the A.O. picking dasies & making love beads.

.

Well there was the disco in Atiri on a Saturday night and the fishing trips to Tibnin bridge so it wasn't all that bad......:D

cp251

I think it really all is in the training. With good training even the shock of combat can be overcome.

But the combat veterans I spoke to and indeed whose experiences I read about say pretty much the same thing. You really don't know how anyone is going to react to a combat situation. One ex Croat army NCO told me how an officer put a pistol to a man's head and told him to get up and fight now or he would kill him. He told me that many a firefight consisted of keeping the head down but sticking the AK over the top of the cover and firing blind. Another Vietnam vet told me he never saw a live NVA or VC and rarely a dead one and that he killed a lot of trees and bushes.

Like a lot of us I wonder how I would have reacted. Maybe it's just as well I never found out.

arybvtcw0eolkf

landylad wrote: »

Well there was the disco in Atiri on a Saturday night and the fishing trips to Tibnin bridge so it wasn't all that bad......:D

LOL, and to think a few of the lads fell for them!..

I'll let you in on one that I fell for (kinda, I thought it was a joke on me).

I was serving out in Tulin with B'Coy (early days) and in the comcen for the few week (covering the night shifts while the chalks changed over).

Every morning I'd to take the requirements from different posts, ie diesel for 6-14, Fresh water for someone else etc.. Well 6-14c (Qabrika, thats not the correct spelling) asked for ''the honey wagon'' every morning, which I thought was a joke so I never put it down for supply!!!... I had the new guy paranoid syndrome!.

At the end of about 10 days the CQ came and asked me if 6-14c had required the 'honey wagon', of course I didn't want to look foolish so said "nope, never"..

You can probably imagine where this is going... The poor ba$tards were over flowing in sh*t because no one had went to empty the septic tanks!.

minidazzler

Just on the main point of the thread here.

OP, Would you rather have the training and not need it, or, Need it and not have it?

Its that simple when it comes to the Irish Army. I don't really think we are big enough to be called an "Army" really we are a Defence Force. ergo my original point.

Peace.

arybvtcw0eolkf

minidazzler wrote: »

Just on the main point of the thread here.

OP, Would you rather have the training and not need it, or, Need it and not have it?

Its that simple when it comes to the Irish Army. I don't really think we are big enough to be called an "Army" really we are a Defence Force. ergo my original point.

Peace.

So you have to be small to be a 'Defence Force'?.

How about the Israeli Defence Forces too big to be called that?.

minidazzler

Mairt wrote: »

So you have to be small to be a 'Defence Force'?.

How about the Israeli Defence Forces too big to be called that?.

Well no thats not what I mean.

It is very hard for me to put this into words.

We are only a defence force. I don't believe that we have the ability to go to open war with anyone unless they came here for it.

I am really terrible at explaining things so I wont even try harder than this.

We are JUST a Defence Force because we are small. The Israeli's for example call themselves A DF even though they are big so that they dont seem hostile but to them it is just a name for us it is a description.

I know confusing but still in my mind it works.

Rew

The a few Irish saw combat in Liberia and East Timor. I'd be shocked if there wern't incidents in the upcoming Chad mission. If you really want to see combat in the DF your best bet would be the ARW once you get some time, experince, over seas missions and if your good enough.