Racism and how to tackle it

Orion

This post stems from this post but I did actually meant to post it at the time - I forgot - sue me

I work on Townsend St and one day before xmas I was outside having a smoke. There was a black woman with her son (about 7 or 8 I'd guess) trying to flag down a taxi. While I was there I actually counted the number of empty taxis that drive by without stopping for her - 11 in 5 minutes. This was at about 2pm so while it's possible that 2 or 3 of them were heading for pickups there's no way all of them were.

Thinking about it afterwards what I probably should have done is walk 50 yards past her and flag down a cab that had just passed her. Then call her down to it and follow it up with reporting the driver. 20/20 hindsight is wonderful.

Anyone else witnessed anything like this and have any idea how it can be combatted?

AckwelFoley

I think what you are saying might be hard to proove.


Some taxis might have their lights off and be on a pick up, and on occasion i find it difficult t get a taxi in dublin.

i cant say ive ever wittnessed this, but of course it may happen. I would wonder why they wouldnt pick them up, its not as if their money is any different?

Orion

My point was that if the driver passed her then stopped for me 50yds on he was choosing his passenger which is a breach of his license. I find it hard to believe that all of them were on a pickup. I only counted the empty taxis - some other passed by with passengers - it's a busy road for taxis.

johnnyskeleton

Unfortunately, bad business sense is all too prevalent in our society. If taxi drivers don't want fares that's their problem.

But I have difficulty believing that all these taxi drivers are racists and so don't pick up black people because what's in it for them? They would really have to hate black people to do that, and I don't think Irish people have that much hate for them. Also, I would say odds are that at least 1 of those 11 taxi drivers was a non-national, maybe even black. Why would they have a problem?

It's all very confusing, and it seems to be mostly taxi drivers. I can't imagine bus drivers, shop assistants, barmen, hairdressers etc refusing service to someone.

I suppose it's not something I look out for so can't really say. There's also the danger of reading an element of racism where there was none there. The taxis could be returning to base, there might be a rank nearby (taxi drivers would rather wait at a rank than pick someone up 20m away - union rules), she could have been hidden behind a van which you didn't see.

What can be done? You could report the taxi drivers to the Equality Tribunal. You could make sure that you don't discriminate in your workplace and hope everyone else will do the same.

Orion

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Also, I would say odds are that at least 1 of those 11 taxi drivers was a non-national, maybe even black. Why would they have a problem?

I didn't notice tbh.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I suppose it's not something I look out for so can't really say. There's also the danger of reading an element of racism where there was none there. The taxis could be returning to base, there might be a rank nearby (taxi drivers would rather wait at a rank than pick someone up 20m away - union rules), she could have been hidden behind a van which you didn't see.

There's no rank nearby and she was standing in clear view - she could be seen from at least 100yds away by any driver. There's no doubt there. And I know a number of taxi drivers - they would rather pick up than sit at a rank any day. iirc the law is that they cannot pickup on the street within 100yds of a rank or something like that - it's not a union rule.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

What can be done? You could report the taxi drivers to the Equality Tribunal. You could make sure that you don't discriminate in your workplace and hope everyone else will do the same.

I could only have done that if I had proven that it was discrimination. If I had stopped a taxi 50 yds past her there would have been a very serious question asked as to why they didn't stop for her.
As for my workplace - I haven't witnessed any discrimination. There are plenty of foreign nationals - Nigerian, Polish, Hungarian etc - and they are happy. If I did notice any I would have no hesitation in going to HR about it tbh.

johnnyskeleton

Macros42 wrote: »

There's no rank nearby and she was standing in clear view - she could be seen from at least 100yds away by any driver. There's no doubt there. And I know a number of taxi drivers - they would rather pick up than sit at a rank any day. iirc the law is that they cannot pickup on the street within 100yds of a rank or something like that - it's not a union rule.

I don't know - I'm not doubting what you say is true - but I find it very hard to believe that 11 taxi drivers would all refuse to pick up a woman because of racisim.

Macros42 wrote:

I could only have done that if I had proven that it was discrimination. If I had stopped a taxi 50 yds past her there would have been a very serious question asked as to why they didn't stop for her.

The reality is that if they were accused of discrimination they could always say "I was on a pickup" or whatever, and this is made worse because it is several different companies/ self employed drivers rather than one big organisation. I'm not saying you would have much chance of success - arguably it would be up to the woman to report it - but it's something you could do.

Spook_ie

Macros42 wrote: »

My point was that if the driver passed her then stopped for me 50yds on he was choosing his passenger which is a breach of his license. I find it hard to believe that all of them were on a pickup. I only counted the empty taxis - some other passed by with passengers - it's a busy road for taxis.

No it nots in breach of his license, a Taxi driver can select passengers or decide to drive past them on a number of criteria, however, color isn't one of them.

I find it hard to believe that with todays competition ( number of Taxis on the road in Dublin ) that drivers weren't ripping her hand off, perhaps it was one of those "need to be there" moments to see why she had difficulty..

Orion

Spook_ie wrote: »

No it nots in breach of his license, a Taxi driver can select passengers or decide to drive past them on a number of criteria, however, color isn't one of them.

No they can't. The only reason a taxi driver can refuse a fare is for a journey of more than 30km. If they are working and not already on a call they must stop to pick up any passenger that flags them down subject to the rule regarding proximity to a rank.

Taxi Regulator

Spook_ie

Macros42 wrote: »

No they can't. The only reason a taxi driver can refuse a fare is for a journey of more than 30km. If they are working and not already on a call they must stop to pick up any passenger that flags them down subject to the rule regarding proximity to a rank.

Taxi Regulator

Oh so wrong, I need not stop for any of these reasons


If I believe that a potential fare hasn't the ability to pay fare, or give a deposit, if requested;

If I believe that a potential fare may not behave in a civil and orderly way;

If I believe that a potential fare may damage or dirty the vehicle;

If I believe that a potential fare may try to consume food or drink in the vehicle;

If as a driver I believe that a passenger may become aggressive when asked to comply with any reasonable request by the driver to leave or not enter the vehicle;

If I as a driver believe that a fare may not take no as an answer to a request to exceed the number of passengers permitted to be carried in the vehicle.

As you see there are a number of reasons why a driver is not forced to stop for members of the public.

Taxi Regulator where you should be looking


As for the misnomer of there being a regulation of not stopping to pick up fares near to a rank, there isn't one, other than the common sense approach of drivers not wanting to upset other drivers or invoke riots at the queue...

johnnyskeleton

Spook_ie wrote: »

As for the misnomer of there being a regulation of not stopping to pick up fares near to a rank, there isn't one, other than the common sense approach of drivers not wanting to upset other drivers or invoke riots at the queue...

This is it, bloodly trade unionists.

dsmythy

Maybe they didn't want to pick up the kid for some reason? It's unlikely that racism was involved here. It just could of been a bad time to pick to grab a taxi. It happens.

dubtom

As a taxi driver there is only a couple of reasons I won't stop for someone,and colour isn't one of them. You should have done what you said and tried to hail one of those taxi's, that would have cleared up the issue in your mind once and for all and clearly proven that yes indeed,all taxi drivers are racist, I mean that is your point afterall is it not?

gillyfromlyre

Its terrible really, but if you think thats bad, my mother told us a terrible story about a travelling circus that visited her village when she was a child,one of the highlights of the show was the african clowns, so maybe we have moved on a little afterall

heirenach

Maybe they did not want a vodoo tip

Archeron

gillyfromlyre wrote: »

Its terrible really, but if you think thats bad, my mother told us a terrible story about a travelling circus that visited her village when she was a child,one of the highlights of the show was the african clowns, so maybe we have moved on a little afterall

But was the point of that to be provided with entertainment by clowns from Africa, which would be unusual for us to see, or was it entertainment because of "look at the funny black people"?
Just wondering, because a couple of years ago, I went to a Chinese circus, and was highly entertained. There were Chinese clowns, chinese jugglers, chinese trapeze, etc. The point of it was that their act was different from a traditional circus act, and that provided entertainment. It was nothing to do with color or race, it was just a different show from what I was used to.
The Chinese clowns didnt really do anything funny as such, and were performing a more artistic kind of thing, just with vague clown makeup. I hope I wouldnt be considered racist because I said that I went to see the "chinese clowns".

As regards the OP's point, I think its being taken off topic a bit by the fact that taxis were used as the example. This kind of behaviour DOES exist, and sometimes it crops up in the most unlikely places.
In a previous job, one of my bosses was incredibly racist, and often made terrible comments. In fact, after interviewing a black guy for a job, he made a truly horrible comment regarding "if you pay peanuts..." which disgusted me. However, everyone else in the office laughed. Not because they were racist, but because it was the boss who said it and no-one would speak against it. As it turns out, the guy got the job, and I went out of my way to try to help him fit in and learn the role. I made a great friend of him by doing this. Funnily enough, he told me that he moved to Ireland from England (he was English) because the levels of racism here are much less than the UK and that was what he wanted for his son.

On a more serious note, I was recently in a hospital where a black doctor ordered something from a coffee shop. He wasnt particularly pleasant, but nonetheless, thats not the point. I sat facing the cashier who, when he had turned his back, began making derogatory gestures to him of a racist nature. She looked at me for confirmation that this was funny at which point, I put my (almost finished) sambo down on the plate, looked at her in disgust and walked out, never to return.
I've seen racism in shops, offices, pretty much everywhere. I suppose the best way to try and overcome it is by just not tolerating it, and expressing as much through your actions.
Some people I know are very racist, and look to others for approval for their behaviour. If they dont get it, they tend to keep their opinions to themselves.

gillyfromlyre

I was shocked when my mother told me that story, because according to my mother they didnt put on any performance specific to their culture like the chinese clowns you saw. In my mothers village they simply paraded the black clowns around the ring as the crowd clapped,cheered and shouted some rather unsavoury suggestions as to what type of fruit should be thrown to them, there was no performance as such!!

Archeron

Aaah, I see. Well that does sound fairly nasty alright.