What is the correct amount to charge for childminding

sfmonet

I hope that someone can give me some advice here.

Currently I have been watching a boy since he was 6 months old (he's 2 now) and I charge the parents 35 per day (9 hr day), I take him weather he is sick or not. Also, the parent cancels whenever it suits her as she asked for someone to be flexible, that's fine but the income lost sometimes is an ouch factor.

Now she has had another child and I will be taking him on as well. He is 6 months old now.

At the time she said the going rate was 50-60 per day for both kids, but I could look around as well. At the time I said the lowest I would go is 60, because as I worked it out for 50 was just around 2 euros and a bit per child per hour.

Am I being taken here? I given excellent care and the little boy is as happy as a clam, I just kind of feel like I am being taken advantage of.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

littlebug

My childminder charges €4 per hour for one child so that would be €36 for a 9 hour day. She charges €7 if she has both the kids so that would work out at €63. I do think this is very low though and she hasn't changed it in the 2 years my kids have been going there. I think most would charge at least €5 per hour and it would certainly be a lot more if you're in Dublin. €50 for a day certainly doesn't sound like enough. There are a few childminders on here so they'll be able to advice you better.

ETA: I should add that I too have a flexible arrangement with my childminder but it works both ways. I also do a lot of the school runs i.e leave my youngest off at her house and pick up 2 of the kids that she minds and leave them, along with my oldest, to school. Same with the return journey. If she has more than 1 pre-school kids in the house the school run can get difficult so maybe that's why she has kept it so cheap. That said, i think that after 2 years it's time I offered her a pay rise.

A good childminder is worth their weight in gold IMO and you shouldn't be taken advantage of.

kelle

The parent cancelling whenever it suits her would be fine, only she should be paying you regardless!
I would NOT mind 2 small children for just e50 a day - no way!!! You shouldn't even consider it.
My childminder charged e40 per day. There were days I didn't bring my child to her because I was off, or she was sick, but i always paid her as normal, even for Bank Holidays - that was the agreement. (Unfortunately, my child got unsettled there and I had to take her away!)
I feel you're being taken for a ride, it seems the more you do for this parent the more she expects. She doesn't appreciate the wonderful job you do. She's just one of these people, and you've got to lay down some ground rules to suit you, otherwise you'll end up getting a stress related illness.
I wish you lived near me!

sfmonet

Kelle, thanks...I wish you lived near me too, you sound so nice!

I know I am a bit of a pushover and I don't want to go back on my word basically....but in all fairness just from your opinion....what do you think is fair for two children?

Again, I really appreciate your input!!

littlebitdull

I would try and make a more formal arrangement with her if I were you. Ok let her continue to have some flexability but agree that you get a certain amount of notice. So say she can cancel with an agreed amount of time notice, say two days in advance? Then you could say if its less time you get paid some sort of cancellation fee?

I think some people seem to think that childminders are not doing a real job. Like all your doing is minding kids - sure inst that a doddle. Not like real work .. sure your just at home all day. Wheres the work in that?

And when your faced with that attitude its easy to be taken for granted and taken for a ride. When really you should be working for at least minimum wage. So if your working minding two young kids for a full day of 9 hours then really you should be getting around 90 euro for that day.

After all your doing a very important job - your making sure her children survive the day and are happy and content and well minded to boot. Surely this is worth getting well paid for?

Ring one of your local creches and find out how much they would charge to mind two children of that age for the day. Ring a few places. Take the average and perhaps cut 10-15 euro off that .... and charge her that.

good luck.

littlebitdull

littlebug wrote: »

My childminder charges €4 per hour for one child so that would be €36 for a 9 hour day. She charges €7 if she has both the kids so that would work out at €63.

.

No offence ... but no way would I work a nine hour day for 4 euro per hour!! Not sure I would for 7 per hour either....

cormie

Still seems low from a business perspective. I've minded my niece for an hour and I've been exhausted after it

Do most parents prefer their children to be sent to a childminders house where they are only minding say 3/4 children max or to somewhere like a cresche where they mind a few dozen (and can therefore offer cheaper rates?). Or would the childminder in most cases be expected to mind the children in their own home?

If the average wage for sitting in an office twiddling your thumbs is say €400 per week, then a childminder should be looking to get at least that, no? The pros being your own business, the cons being risks and hard work. That would be 80 a day at least.

Also, for those childminders out there, do you find it easier to mind one child or say three? I reckon, with the likes of my niece, if she could mingle with children her own age and they could tire eachother out, it means the childminder just has to supervise instead of "play" too.

So if average was €40 per day, you'd be looking at 2 kids to get €400 per week, and 3 to get €600. Still not a lot for minding 3 kids but you have to have a balance between what the mothers view as "worth it" for the money they are left with after paying somebody to mind their child(ren).

If it were me, I'd definitely want to be paid for cancelled days. What if a whole week is cancelled? Where do you get money to put food on your plate then?

sfmonet

Some really valid points, thanks a million to you all for your views!

kelle

sfmonet wrote: »

Kelle, thanks...I wish you lived near me too, you sound so nice!

I know I am a bit of a pushover and I don't want to go back on my word basically....but in all fairness just from your opinion....what do you think is fair for two children?

Again, I really appreciate your input!!

I'm not sure what my childminder charges for 2 children, but the creche my daughter was in charges e70. And they're not getting the same individual care and attention those children get that you're minding!
Sorry if I sound like I'm over-reacting, but I get so incensed when good childminders are treated like dirt. The reason I work is because I find staying at home all day with the children tedious, and admire people who do it for a living, and feel they deserve their just rewards.
For example, a mum in my town was minding a baby, whose parents she described as "really horrible". They would turn up at weekends and Bank Holidays with this baby, not collect her when they said they would (once, this minder phoned them as they were 3 hours late collecting her, their response was very rude!). So she ceased minding this child, and the experience has put her off so much she doesn't want to mind children again!
Like I said, there's nasty people like that everywhere - and you'd think being parents would make them better people, but it doesn't.

themadchef

Every second person i speak to has a different opinion on how much is enough. I put myself in their shoes and say what would i do it for. I suppose if i had more than one child to mind for different parents then €40 a day would at least bring in a certain level of income. I wouldint personally do it for on child for €40 but thats me.
As i have 4 kids it's a bit different. When i had 2 i paid €7 for the person to come to my home. Only 2 days a week though and the odd day here and there. Now i have 4 (twins) i pay €10...so it doesnt really add up, but the child minders i use are mothers whose children are grown up and know they wouldint get that rate anywhere in the local shops or waitress jobs etc. In the summer when i put in 80 hr weeks i actually have to get 2 au pairs (not teenage ones, again grown up mothers who have raised their own kids and like the change for the summer. This costs €300 a week to cover the whole week, otherwise i would have to give up work as i would be paying to go to work.

As for paying for cancelled days, yes you should be paid. I mean honestly it's not unreasonable. Just my 2 cents, best of luck!

kelle

cormie wrote: »

If it were me, I'd definitely want to be paid for cancelled days. What if a whole week is cancelled? Where do you get money to put food on your plate then?

Absolutely agree. You agree on days that you mind the child, you should get paid whether the child is there or not!

embee

My childminder charges 150 euro per week. I prefer this than all this daily rate messing around. My daughter is with her 5 days per week, and the childminder works 8-5.30, but I can leave her and collect her at any time. My childminder does a fantastic job and my daughter is very happy there, so I certainly would never say to her "Well, Rhiannon was only here 3 days this week, so you're only getting 90 euro" or whatever. My childminder is flexible and doesn't mind if I cancel at short notice (I don't usually do that, but had to do it recently because I needed to get her to a doctor pronto).

I think this daily rate thing is crazy... are you not better off charging a weekly rate?

Ayla

I have a slightly different take -

I sent my DD to two different minders before getting a spot at the local creche. The first minder was registered w/ the council, so could charge €30/day regardless of whether we were there or not. We signed a contract with the rules clearly stated. If we called out sick or had holidays planned months in advance, we still had to pay if we didn't show. We also paid for bank holidays.

Later we sent DD to another minder who was not registered. She requested €5/hr, but as that would've had her at €40/day we agreed on €25/day. She also wouldn't dream of charging if we didn't show one day. I know she was paid peanuts, but she wasn't claiming these wages, and wasn't paying taxes on them. She hadn't gone through any certification and hadn't taken any courses.

The idea of working my tail off for only €25-30/day (ie: €125-150/week) makes me cringe, and I know I couldn't afford to do it. So neither of our minders were making any sort of living on our pay alone, but it was the going rate. And it seems to be accepted that if you're not registered you have to charge less and accept that you won't get paid if the child doesn't show up in the morning.

OP - what I'm trying (at length) to say is if you're registered you have rights. You can charge more and lay down more rules. If you're not registered, you can still ask for more (monetary if not respect) but you don't have as firm a ground to stand on.

RIRI

My childminder charges €40 per day, 8am to 5pm.

We have agreed that I will give one week notice if she's not going to have the mad lad and I won't have to pay her. If he's sick or the notice is shorter I pay her for the day. I also always pay her for a full day even though he might only be there for a few hours. I don;t pay her our holidays or hers - but that's the agreement we made at the beginning (2&1/2 years ago).

I think €60 is very cheap for minding two kids for that period of time to be honest. If you could get her to agree to pay you for the days the kids aren't with you that might make up the difference, the Mother does need to give you some notice if she doen;t need you - it's only manners and at the end of the day this is your job - you need to spell this out to her in the nicest way possible. In my opinion a good childminder isn't easy to come by and are worth their weight in gold.

littlebitdull

I agree a weekly or even a monthly rate would be better. Then the mother can budget for say paying out 150 per week. You - the childminder - can also count on getting your 150 per week. Then if the mother cancels it wont make any odds. 150 per week for nine hour days is cheep going all the same.

I am saying this as a sahm... who would not consider that little extra income worth the enormous change minding someone elses child would make to our family life worth it. I would have to be less available for my own kids and husband for only 150 per week!! No - sure lets face it ..thats only a cut and colour at the hairdressers.

sfmonet

Again, I really appreciate all the input, it gives me some perspective. As for the cancelling, I completely understand when things come up/child sick/etc. Its just that lately it has been 10pm txts the night before and has happened a little but more than usual.

I don't mean to sound like I don't appreciate the work she does give, God how I do and I love the little boy like he was my own (except I have the joy of giving him back at the end of the day). I guess you can't make people appreciate the work you put into their kids to make them happy, they just expect that....and I am thinking that it is like all jobs, just do it and be happy!

Cheers ladies!

cormie

I'm not a lady

10pm texts the night before cancelling isn't really fair. As well as you appreciating the business she gives you, she should also appreciate the fact that you need to make a living and she can't expect to just cancel when she wants.

Is this your only source of income and do you have your own children meaning you'd be at home anyway? Not that it should make a difference to her, but it might be less of a blow to you if you'd be thinking "I could be out working getting paid" kinda thing.

sfmonet

No, its my only source of income at the moment. I have a child, but she's 9 so in school most of the time. I'm an American (don't hold that against me!) and I have permission to stay, but that's it, can't work in my normal field or get any benefits etc. and not looking to take off the State anyway, not my nature. I know this may change the feeling of well, then you are lucky to get what you get, but at the same time, does that constitute it being ok to take advantage of someone because you know you can.

After speaking with my partner last night, he said if it gets at me too much, to see about taking on some other kids or finding a full time position with someone.

cormie

Well if I were in your position, I'd definitely try and make arrangements for getting paid unless proper notice is given. You've already dedicated the next day to her child by 10pm the night before.

You should also look at getting maybe 1 or 2 more kids, maybe then you could be more flexible as you wont be relying on one child to show only and they could buzz off eachother and you'd just have to supervise if you get me. It would also be good for them to be mixing and making friends.

sfmonet

Very good points definitely. I think I will start advertising or looking at the boards in the local shop.

RIRI

Sorry to harp on but a text at 10pm the night before is just disgraceful carry on. There's flexiblity and then there's just plain taking the piss.

Anyway - best of luck what ever you decide

Ayla

OP - since you're not a citizen (don't worry, I'm American too, but will get my citizenship in April) I'm assuming you're not a registered minder? Not that that's a bad thing (most minders in this country aren't registered), but as I explained earlier being registered does give you some more leverage if your "clients" aren't acting appropriately (calling more than once at 10pm the night before counts as inappropriate).

Try talking to the parents of your charge and see if they'll come around. They may not realize they're acting out of line, and they may be more than willing to change once they realize. Like other posters have said, good minders aren't easy to come by and I'm sure your "clients" understand how good they have it. Try talking to them.

cormie

I wouldn't have thought a lot of people would take the attitude that just because they aren't registered, they can be messed around with. I'm sure it'd be easy enough to find customers who are glad to pay the same money because you're good with their children, don't care if you're registered or not and will respect the fact you need to earn a living.

Lizzykins

I'm looking at this from two sides-that of a minder and as a parent of a 4 year old that I get minded from 9.15 to 2.15. My minder charges me €5 an hour and I round up the €125 to €130 per week. Basically if she is available to mind the child then she gets paid. I don't deduct for the odd day or Bank Holidays as I think that would be the height of meanness. When I go on my hols I pay her but when she goes on her two week break I pay my teenage daughter to mind the little one and the minder does not get paid. At Christmas I gave the minder her usual week's wages and a bonus for Christmas week. I figure if I get paid then so should she. I paid her again today for a full week even though the child was only with her today. I'm more than fair with her and she has only missed a day or two in several years minding. I couldn't ask for better.
Compare that to 10 years ago when I did a bit of minding myself and got cancellations on the day and was not paid. I missed out on any number of weeks income. What was grossly unfair was that it was my only income at the time and I really needed it. We have to remember that it is a job for some people and treat them fairly.

cormie

See I reckon most people would be kind and fair lie lizzykins above. You can shop around for customers as well you know

Lizzy, does your minder only mind your own child or does she mind a few?

littlebitdull

I think cancelling via text at ten pm the night before is just not on. She is not even taking the time to phone you and talk to you... how rude.

littlebug

littlebitdull wrote: »

No offence ... but no way would I work a nine hour day for 4 euro per hour!! Not sure I would for 7 per hour either....

emm.. if you do the sums that adds up to €180 per week at €4 per hour for one child. You have suggested later that the OP should charge €150 per week! Also remember that most childminders mind more than one child... some many more than one child.


As I said I have a flexible arrangement with my childminder where we don't pay her for days off but that was her choice not mine. It works to her advantage as well as mine. I do the school runs and my child is only with her in the morning. I send his mid- morning snack with him so she doesn't even have to feed him. I don't know what she charges the others who are there all day. I know €4 per hour is low and I will be offering to increase that when we go back next week.

Lizzykins

My minder has two other little girls that she minds from 10 til 5 four days a week. My little one is only with her from 9.15 til 2.15 but is in playschool for part of that time. My minder is a dream and when the little one goes to school we won't see that much of her. the only thing is that I will have a bit more disposable income!

sfmonet

Wow Lizzykins, you sound like the client from heaven! My friends had told me about XMAS bonuses being the norm as a "Thank you", just a selection box and a thank you card two years in a row. Now I know it sounds nasty by me mentioning it, but upon talking with my partner, he told me to just chalk it up to experience, that the child is happy and well-cared for. At this point he says, I should just take on another child and be a little bit less of a pushover.

Ayla, no I am not registered. Since I can't get a work permit in my field I took this on to help with household finances (I am not one of these people that likes to be taken care of - independence and 50/50, etc) so it was what I could do to help.

Littlebug, as far as holidays go, I am not paid when they take time off and I would never dream of asking them to pay for anytime I took off. Basically the way my situation works, no kids no pay regardless.

Its unfortunate, but I would just say at this point that she knows she can take advantage as is....as I said before I will just have to take on another child and have some more rules upfront, etc.

But I do like hearing others opinions, your friends always side with you, buy people who don't know you will give you honest and frank opinions!:)

cormie

You could just introduce a new rule every few weeks, don't hit her hard with a new set of rules and a price increase. Talk it over with her, say you're planning on expanding and taking on maybe another child or two, assure her that her child will still get the same attention, and that it would be good for her child to mix etc, but that you just want to be ready for taking on new children and say you can't be relying on one child who's indefinite as it is at the moment that you want things 50/50 with you and your partner and can't have that with the way things currently are.

deisemum

Right let's clear up the registration issue. You can legitimately childmind and not register with any organisation. You only have to "notify" your local HSE if you look after 4 or more children that are not from the same family.

If you are looking after 3 or less children you may voluntary notify the HSE and become a notified childminder same as those looking after 4 or more. You may register with Childminding Ireland which is the organisation that represents childminders.

Don't let the fear of charging the going rate and the possiblility of being reported to the revenue be a worry either as most childminders get a €15,000tax allowance so you wouldn't have a tax liability.

sfmonet, I see you're in Waterford, you should have no problem finding families looking for a childminder.

I would strongly encourage you to get in contact with your local city or county childcare committee and speak with the childminding advisors. They are very helpful and through them you can meet other childminders. If you want their contact details I can pass them on to you.

SarahMc

+1, you do not need a work permit to be a Childminder either. As I see it your options are:

a) sit down with the parent concerned, say I have been doing my research, I need x per hour, I need 24 hour notice of cancellation, please sign this contract (pm me for sample contract)

b) lose this parent, professionalise yourself, do a free childminding course and a free paedriatic first aid course, get garda vetting, register with Revenue and start looking for parents who will treat you decently.

c) carry on with the status quo.

sfmonet

Deisemum and SaraMc, some very valid points. Has definitely got me looking at this from some other angles!

deisemum

I know the Waterford Childcare Committees help childminders who wish to become notified childminders by paying their first year's membership of Childminding Ireland.

The CCC's help with courses, some free others subsidised and will help childminders access the €630 childminders grant to help them get toys, equipment etc.

I'd strongly encourage you to make sure you're insured if you aren't already. Childminding Ireland have a very good group scheme that's specific for childminders.

In Waterford the CCCs organise outings and events for childminders and their mindees plus regular network nights for the childminders.

Lizzykins

I think that what goes around comes around. Just to let you know what the bonus was-I gave the minder 250 on 21st Dec made up of payment fot that week's minding €130 and the rest as a bonus. I gave her a bottle of wine and had a present for her six year old. She had a present for my little one too. As I said before I regard the money she gets as her income and since I am paid for Christmas week then she should be too. I don't think you would get away without paying in a creche though I've never used a creche so I can't be certain. I think it's up to people to set ground rules on both sides at the beginning but I do know when there are kids involved it's mighty hard to get down to the subject of money!

Lizzykins

sfomet - I agree with your partner when he says chalk it up to experience and take on another child and set a few rules before you start. You are minding for income not just the fun of it and a bit of pocket money, though you do say the little fellow is a lovely child. That mother should be very happy that her little boy is so well looked after. I bet he gets more attention than in a creche. I think I read on the thread that someone mentioned Childminding Ireland. I know I have looked at their website for some good info.