Back of House Extension

grey_newbie

Hi Guys,

I live in the park and was just wondering does anyone know if it's possible(or already been done) to put an extension on the back of your house, I presume it could be done to the lower level of the house with not much bother but just wondering if it is possible to extend the upstairs of your house also, I'm presuming there would be difficulties or red tape to get through as our house and I presume the majority of everyone else's house share's a roof with the house next door that extends the back of the lower level of the house.

Tks a mill for any input or guidance

loyatemu

you would need the permission of the management company (though as we've seen recently they lack teeth if you do ignore them).

Extending the downstairs (or adding a conservatory as some have already done) wouldn't be a big deal but extending the upstairs would have a massive impact on your neighbours, and may not be technically possible given the timber-framed construction of our houses (actually that may apply to extending downstairs as well) - its a non-runner I'd say.

grey_newbie

cheers loyatemu, I had a builder friend around at the house last night, he reckons with a bit of work and alot of money it would be possible to extend the upstairs also. I'm going to contact the management company to see there thoughts on it, although they will probably have a slingshot and lazy response of 'it can't be done', as far as I can tell they're a useless crowd but I'm going to pursue getting the extension..will update thread with progress just in case anyone else is thinking about it..

woodcutter

Wicklow County Council have recently refused planning for such an extension for a property in the Woods

http://www.wicklow.ie/ePlan/InternetEnquiry/rpt_ViewApplicDetails.asp?validFileNum=1&app_num_file=071994

Reasons Given:
1. “The proposed development would seriously (a) injure the amenities and (b) depreciate the value of properties in the vicinity because the proposed development by virtue of its scale, appearance and visual impact would be out of harmony and character with existing development in the area and contrary to proper planning and development of the area.

2. The proposed development would seriously depreciate the value of properties in the vicinity because having regard to the window, door and balcony in the north elevation the development would result is severe overlooking of these properties.

Coolhand

I would have to say this is not a good idea. it would be terrible for the neighbors on either side. An attic conversion is one thing but we all have small enough gardens as it is without having to go out and have a wall the length of it on one side. I don't think permission would be granted for this for this reason as the impact would be too high on your neighbors. A conservatory at most is all I think most of the houses can take in the estate to be honest. I would just advise you to be careful as this is the kind of thing that can end you up in court with your neighbors. One case I know of the extension had to be taken down so just be careful before you do anything.

grey_newbie

Thanks for advise Coolhand but we're actually a 3 bed so it would really only affect 1 side of our neighbours and due to the site location we wouldn't block any of their sun or light , mightn't be the prettiest for them but it's not the worst... if the council can approve 3 storey houses overlooking charlesland i don't see why they'd have a problem with a little extension in one of the houses

Charlie-Bravo

grey_newbie wrote: »

"little extension"

Thats developer speak!

daveco23

Are you in a 3 bed semi? ie only one house backing on to yours?
I am in one and was toying with a similar idea - got an architect friend in to talk to him about it, and after he stopped laughing said I would not have a hope in hell of getting planning for it - going for a conservatory instead.

Sky Captain

The second schedule of the Lease of Easements, wherein each Lessee (ie each house owner) covenants the following, is very clear:

14 Alterations

14.1 Not to make any alteration in or to the sold premises without the approval in writing of the Lessor and the developer or the management company of the plans and specifications submitted to the Lessor and the developer or the management company for approval and to make those alterations only in accordance with the said plans and specifications when so approved and to obtain at the Lessee’s own expense all licences planning permissions and other things necessary for the lawful carrying out of such alterations and to comply with all regulations applicable generally and or to the specific works undertaken.

14.2 Not without prior consent in writing of the Lessor and the developer or the management company make any alterations or additions whatsoever (structural or otherwise) to the private garden forming part of the sold premises or to carry out any development within the meaning of the Local Government Planning and Development Act 2000 or use the private garden forming part of the sold premises in such a manner as to be or become a nuisance or annoyance to the Lessors and occupiers of any of the other houses or units or to detract from the amenities of any of the other houses.

Charlie-Bravo

daveco23 wrote: »

going for a conservatory instead.

There goes your conservatory based on Sky Captain's 14.2 point!

Sky Captain wrote: »

14.2 Not without prior consent in writing of the Lessor and the developer or the management company make any alterations or additions whatsoever (structural or otherwise) to the private garden forming part of the sold premises or to carry out any development within the meaning of the Local Government Planning and Development Act 2000 or use the private garden forming part of the sold premises in such a manner as to be or become a nuisance or annoyance to the Lessors and occupiers of any of the other houses or units or to detract from the amenities of any of the other houses.

I think you guys should confirm that you both have the same lease...I will be checking mine in the meantime.

daveco23

astrofluff wrote: »

There goes your conservatory based on Sky Captain's 14.2 point!



I think you guys should confirm that you both have the same lease...I will be checking mine in the meantime.

Double checking today, but unlike most of the other houses in charlesland these ones are freehold, not leasehold..

mikedragon32

But when you signed your contract for your house, the clauses Sky Captain quotes would have made up part of it.

It may not be clause 14 and it may be worded slightly differently, but it'll definitely be there.

loyatemu

several houses in the estate already have conservatories so even if the lease does forbid them, it appears the management company aren't doing anything about it.

fishdog

I dont want to get anyones back up but the way I see it is that if you start by seeing if your neighbour (you only have one that is joined to you) would agree to do the same thing to his/her property. I alsom think it would look better.

This would reduce the costs by a large margin (planning, design, construction etc.), and increase the value of both properties. If all of the people that would be affected are in agreement the management company might be convinced.

Having happy neighbours is always best!!

If this worked I would bet many others would look at doing it also.

Good luck with it!!:D

loyatemu

only really practical if (like daveco) you're in a back-to-back house. Otherwise your neighbour would in turn have a another neighbour on his far side.

fishdog

only really practical if (like daveco) you're in a back-to-back house. Otherwise your neighbour would in turn have a another neighbour on his far side.

Same plan, three houses! Even more cost effective:D

I know it would be harder to get more people to agree, but as the price drops, the more interested people seem to get.

loyatemu

fishdog wrote: »

Same plan, three houses! Even more cost effective:D

I know it would be harder to get more people to agree, but as the price drops, the more interested people seem to get.

maybe. I'm in a row of 8 houses, and i can see some logistical difficulties ahead...

fishdog

I see what you mean, point taken!

But maybe for some others it would work.

grey_newbie

daveco23 wrote: »

Are you in a 3 bed semi? ie only one house backing on to yours?.

Yes only one house connected to the side of us, initially we were thinking about a conservatory but it's the lack of space upstairs that really annoys us, we find that downstairs already has plenty of room but upstairs is the problem, bedrooms too small...

Not a bad idea fishdog about talking to next door neighbours and proposing a double build.. will probably drop in before we draw up plans for planning permission and see what they'd think about the suggestion..

daveco23

grey_newbie wrote: »

Yes only one house connected to the side of us, initially we were thinking about a conservatory but it's the lack of space upstairs that really annoys us, we find that downstairs already has plenty of room but upstairs is the problem, bedrooms too small...

..

It might be worth thinking about the following - convert the attic into another bedroom with proper stairs(Not cheap due to trussed roof), knock the wall between the second double bedroom and the single so you have a very large main bedroom, then move the shower and toilet in the ensuite so you can access the ensuite in the current main bedroom from the new main bedroom. Alternatively put main bedroom and an ensuite in attic. You now have 3 double bedrooms, one of which will be huge. - could work out cheaper and be more diplomatic than building out.

Charlie-Bravo

Grey-Newbie, do you have any houses backing onto you?

neets

i'm in a three bed mid-terrace and it doesn't look as if there's much space up in the attic. would you get a double and an ensuite up there?

loyatemu

we had ours converted - its an open plan room that we use as a study. I'd say you'd be doing well to get a proper bedroom + ensuite up there. The hipped roof really limits your options.

grey_newbie

astrofluff wrote: »

Grey-Newbie, do you have any houses backing onto you?

no astrofluff, but looks like we will in the future when they start the second phase of the development and start building on the waste area at the back of the park..

Charlie-Bravo

Newbie - the reason I ask is to draw your attention to the planning rules on building (even without permission under exempted development) that no wall with a window facing a boundary at first floor be within 11 metres

In the Greystones and Delgany LAP it states "A suitable distance should be maintained between adjoining properties to ensure privacy and prevent overlooking of habitable rooms (bedrooms, dining and living rooms). As a rule a distance of 22metres will be required between opposing windows, balconies and doors on the rear elevations of dwellings, for structures in excess of 1 storey" Link to document It is likely if you don't have anyone behind you they will maintain the 11 metre privacy rule.

It also harps on about minimum area for private amenity space i.e. your back garden, which is calculated on bedroom area (for every some many sq metres of bedroom X 0.64 = required private amenity space). In the case of exempted development I would refer you to the exempted development section of this S.I. on the environ.ie website PDF doc. Its not exactly straight forward reading but its better than the Act 2000! So if you have a conservatory, are you meeting the requirements of the exempted development regs? Can be tricky if you try and sell the house!:o

quag

What direction is the back of your house facing? I find it hard to imagine that it wont affect your neightbours' light and sunshine.
I don't think they would see this as a "little extension". Id imagine it would be an eyesore and could also structurally affect the whole block that your house is on.

fishdog

no wall with a window facing a boundary at first floor be within 11 metres

You could install Vellux windows instead of windows facing a boundry wall.

I find it hard to imagine that it wont affect your neightbours' light and sunshine.

This will be the biggest problem!

grey_newbie

astrofluff wrote: »

Newbie - the reason I ask is to draw your attention to the planning rules on building (even without permission under exempted development) that no wall with a window facing a boundary at first floor be within 11 metres

Tks a mill for the information astrofluff, really appreciate the info you supplied, will help alot towards the planning stages..

Quag, don't worry I wouldn't attempt to build an extension that didn't get the ok from a structural engineer, surveyor, and architect

Charlie-Bravo

fishdog wrote: »

You could install Vellux windows instead of windows facing a boundry wall.


This will be the biggest problem!

You cannot meet Building Regs Part B- Fire with high level Velux windows as it is a death trap, or less importantly difficult to certify and in turn causes complications in selling a property. (The planning authority may not pick up on this but should not allow such).

fishdog

You cannot meet Building Regs Part B- Fire with high level Velux windows as it is a death trap

Hang on, one problem at a time please. The velux windows are only to let light in beacuse I could not have windows facing the boundry fence on the first floor.

In the event of a fire why would you use the "death trap" velux windows when I would have installed fire escape stairs into the back garden??

Or you could use the "Bat pole":D:D

Work with me astrofluff Im trying to find practical solutions here.

mikedragon32

Lads, this is veering off topic. The OP was querying how to go about extending his house.

If you want to discuss building regs and ways around the planning regs and/or Lease of covenant, you can take it to a more appropriate forum.

Charlie-Bravo

fishdog wrote: »

Work with me astrofluff Im trying to find practical solutions here.

No probs Fish...I'm the type of person who likes good design of houses. I enjoy helping people get the best of their property while achieving the best spacial layouts with consideration to the 'rules'

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Lads, this is veering off topic. The OP was querying how to go about extending his house.

If you want to discuss building regs and ways around the planning regs and/or Lease of covenant, you can take it to a more appropriate forum.

Back to the OPs original question so...."if it's possible(or already been done) to put an extension on the back of your house" ...Very unlikely in Charlesland unfortunately.:(

loyatemu

huge bump

I noticed while out walking that the application referred to in post 4 was resubmitted in january and is due for decision this week. Will be interesting to see if it gets through.

I'm surprised the Wood management company didn't make a submission on it - if permission is granted it could lead to a bit of a free-for-all.

Charlie-Bravo

One question I suppose to be asked in relation to doing something in the neighbourhood like this: Do you need approval from the management company before seeking planning permission? If you don't then you can throw as many planning applications as you like (at a cost of course) and get as many Grants or Refusals as you like but still in the end require the appropriate approval from the management company.

Most houses in the neighbourhood are quite restricted by way of doing extensions with adhering to the Local Area plan along with approprioate statutory regulations. It's a shame you can't view the planning documents online like you can with most Local Authorities these days (so, come on Wicklow Co Co - get your act together)

new arrival

See there is a small extension going onto one of the houses in the Grove.

Looks like a great idea. Are there any major planning issues to get through for this?

neets

which type of house is it? does that mean that the management company have given it the go ahead? if so, i'd say there'll be a deluge of planning applications from the rest of us frantically trying get a bit more square footage. we had to change the wardrobe doors to sliding doors because we couldn't open them when the bed was put in!

new arrival

neets wrote: »

which type of house is it? does that mean that the management company have given it the go ahead? if so, i'd say there'll be a deluge of planning applications from the rest of us frantically trying get a bit more square footage. we had to change the wardrobe doors to sliding doors because we couldn't open them when the bed was put in!

Don't know where you have lived before Neets, but just because 1 house decides to expand and upgrade, does not mean everybody wants the same.

Too many factors involved, how many people live in the house, kids, access to finance etc.

neets

new arrival wrote: »

Don't know where you have lived before Neets, but just because 1 house decides to expand and upgrade, does not mean everybody wants the same.

Too many factors involved, how many people live in the house, kids, access to finance etc.

firstly i was being lighthearted and a bit tongue in cheek in my post so let's try and keep it that way.

secondly, i have lived in charlesland for the last 3 years, firstly in a 2 bed house and currently in a 3 bed house. the bedrooms are tiny. i have 2 children and it would be great if they didn't have to sleep in rooms the size of shoeboxes when they get into their teens - hence my curiosity regarding extensions.

i know for a fact that many people in charlesland share my sentiment, for example 4 of my neighbours have talked to me about extending. as a reader and poster on this forum for the last couple of years i am also aware that fellow boards members also share a desire to extend. perhaps you might read through some of the previous threads to read previous posts on this subject.

access to finance plays a huge part. i would prefer to extend rather than fork out a huge chunk of stamp duty for an extra room. i've already looked at the option of moving to a bigger house in the area and it's too expensive.

to keep this thread on topic, does anyone know what type of house is being extended?

Charlie-Bravo

I had a quick scan around the Wicklow Co Co website to see if there are any other planning permissions being sought for extensions in Charlesland. From what I can the only one is that one in The Wood (link to Wicklow Co Co file ref)). This has recently been discussed on here previously.

Doing a house extension that you may think does not require planning permission does have some onerous requirements made on the developer (home owner). You have to meet so many provisions. It's worth having a look at the exempted development section of the planning and development regs if anyone's unsure.

Seeing as you will have to give plans and specs to the management company for approval, you've pretty much done most of the work required for submitting plans to the plannning authority! The extra cost would be in the newspaper notice and copies of ordnance surveys maps.

FYI - attic conversions are not exempt development under the planning and development regs. So if you have one done, and need to sell you might need to go get planning retention!:o

dubrunner

to keep this thread on topic, does anyone know what type of house is being extended?[/QUOTE]

Glad the rant has finished. Any back on topic, it looks great, but I wonder if there were many hoops to jump through to get this?

Sparks115

The house in question is a 3 Bed semi detached in the Grove, the ones with the long Gardens. The extension is quiet big. I think they started it off as a conservertory but now it has a solid fixed slate roof which means it doesnt qualify as a conservatory???. I didnt know the Management committee had agreed or come to a decision on these extensions considering the furroarr over the house in the Park. Does anyone know if it is now ok to do these kind of extensions as I also would like to build out the back for a larger back room?

Charlie-Bravo

Hi Inch,

I suppose the answer to your question, and I see you are in the Grove and not the Park (a seperate Management Company AFAIK), is contact your managing agent to clarify the issue. So if all is appropriate, then formally ask your management company for the approval.

I do think, for those of you reading this and are on a management commitee, vetting must be in place for these proposals to ensure proper development of the resident's home. At least, someone of appropriate qualifications review the proposal to ensure those exempted developments are complete in accordance with the Planning Regulations. Rant OVER.