ebay seller wanting me to use moneybookers.com or bidpay.com

griffdaddy

tried ordering a microsoft zune off an ebay power seller but it kept saying that my address could not be confirmed and wouldn't complete the purchase. i emailed the seller and asked him what the story was and he sent me this email;

Dear dgriffind,

Sorry but I can not accept paypal for items sent to Ireland because paypal does not cofirm addresses in Ireland. Please use moneybookers.com or bidpay.com to pay your payment.

regards,

I've paid with paypal before for items on ebay with no problems, i've no idea what those other things are, are they safe? how do i go about using them? thanks in advance for your help!

biko

Try entering 000 in post code?
Or use another seller.

Vikings

Whatever you do, I would recommend that you do not pay him by those methods!! Bidpay is Western Union so you can almost kiss bye bye to your money in that case. Mooneybookers is a similar payment method.

I'd use another seller to be honest, easiest solution.

griffdaddy

yeah i think i'll use another seller, don't particularly wanna dick around with moneybookers when i can just get a 3v and use paypal with someone else, bidpay isn't even operational anymore, stopped running according to their website on 31st December. Thanks for your advice,

A Dub in Glasgo

He will not accept your money because paypal remove seller protection when a buyer has an unconfirmed address. You are not prepared to pay by another means because you have a fear he is going to scam you. The seller will not accept your payment because he fears you are going to scam him. Catch 22, did the seller state he would not accept payment for unconfirmed buyers? How much feedback does the seller have? How much feedback do you have?

griffdaddy

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

He will not accept your money because paypal remove seller protection when a buyer has an unconfirmed address. You are not prepared to pay by another means because you have a fear he is going to scam you. The seller will not accept your payment because he fears you are going to scam him. Catch 22, did the seller state he would not accept payment for unconfirmed buyers? How much feedback does the seller have? How much feedback do you have?

but i'm pretty sure my address is confirmed when i use it usually. he had a lot of positive feedback, i have only one (it's positive), cause i usually use a friends account. I dunno what the problem was, i used another seller, with the exact same stipulations (immediate payment, paypal) and have paid him with zero problems, waiting for item delivery. By the way, where do paypal get their exchange rates from? it was 7 euro more than it should've been according to xe.com

Vorsprung

Eh....my address is confirmed, and in Ireland! Sounds a bit scammish to be honest.

A Dub in Glasgo

griffdaddy wrote: »

but i'm pretty sure my address is confirmed when i use it usually. he had a lot of positive feedback, i have only one (it's positive), cause i usually use a friends account. I dunno what the problem was, i used another seller, with the exact same stipulations (immediate payment, paypal) and have paid him with zero problems, waiting for item delivery. By the way, where do paypal get their exchange rates from? it was 7 euro more than it should've been according to xe.com

According to other posters in other threads, it is not possible to get paypal to confirm your address in Ireland.

The problem was that to the seller you could be a scammer; very low feedback, unconfirmed address meaning paypal do not protect the seller should you decide to claim non receipt of the item.

A Dub in Glasgo

bigjimthefirst wrote: »

Eh....my address is confirmed, and in Ireland! Sounds a bit scammish to be honest.

Can you confirm (doh!) that? Are you sure it is not just verified?

griffdaddy

hmmm, just checked there, my address isn't confirmed, it must just be a problem for some sellers, after all, if they have proof of postage, wouldn't paypal tell me to take a hike regardless of confirmed address or not?

Vikings

An Irish address can not be confirmed. An Irish account can be verified but these are not the same thing.

Dub in Glasgow is right about the Seller Protection, but at the same time it shouldn't be a worry to most seller's as long as they keep proof of postage and insure the item accordingly. That way if a buyer claims the item never turned up, the seller can either prove it was delivered with proof of postage (not just a receipt, tracking number required) or if the item is lost in the mail then the seller can claim from the postal company and the buyer is due their money back from the seller.

The above is the same in principle seller protection or not so really the seller should accept your payment but at the end of the day it is their loss.

A Dub in Glasgo

griffdaddy wrote: »

hmmm, just checked there, my address isn't confirmed, it must just be a problem for some sellers, after all, if they have proof of postage, wouldn't paypal tell me to take a hike regardless of confirmed address or not?

No paypal would refund the buyer by removing the money from the sellers account, that is the whole problem with sending items to unconfirmed addresses. Unconfirmed is a potential scammers paradise

A Dub in Glasgo

Vikings wrote: »

An Irish address can not be confirmed. An Irish account can be verified but these are not the same thing.

Dub in Glasgow is right about the Seller Protection, but at the same time it shouldn't be a worry to most seller's as long as they keep proof of postage and insure the item accordingly. That way if a buyer claims the item never turned up, the seller can either prove it was delivered with proof of postage (not just a receipt, tracking number required) or if the item is lost in the mail then the seller can claim from the postal company and the buyer is due their money back from the seller.

The above is the same in principle seller protection or not so really the seller should accept your payment but at the end of the day it is their loss.

It does not work like that with paypal

Example:
You buy one of my items and pay with paypal. The address is unconfirmed. I send the item by a insured trackable method. You sign for it and it is shown on the carriers website as signed. You then decide to put a claim in with paypal claiming non-delivery. I send the tracking information to paypal. Paypal ignore that tracking information as the address is not confirmed. You receive a refund and the goods, I lose the goods and the money.

I cannot then put a claim in for the courier as it has tracked.

Being unconfirmed leaves the seller wide open to be scammed.

Vikings

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

It does not work like that with paypal

Example:
You buy one of my items and pay with paypal. The address is unconfirmed. I send the item by a insured trackable method. You sign for it and it is shown on the carriers website as signed. You then decide to put a claim in with paypal claiming non-delivery. I send the tracking information to paypal. Paypal ignore that tracking information as the address is not confirmed. You receive a refund and the goods, I lose the goods and the money.

I cannot then put a claim in for the courier as it has tracked.

Being unconfirmed leaves the seller wide open to be scammed.

Eh not quite. And believe me, I know, I work there

Once you have a tracking number that shows the item was delivered to the buyer's address that was given to you through the payment then the buyer can not claim for Non Receipt. Well, I say the can not - they can but they will not win the claim.

The only way you would not win a claim when you have a tracking number is if the item is worth over £150/equivalent and the tracking number has no signature or if the tracking number istelf does not confirm delivery to the buyers address. Anything over £150 needs a signature with the tracking.

A Dub in Glasgo

That is good to know then, my work colleague must have done something wrong then as paypal took his money and refunded the buyer even though he send tracking information. I must ask him was the claim for non-receipt of goods.

How come paypal cannot do the simple task of confirming if a persons credit card billing address is the address registered with paypal?

Vikings

Honestly? I havn't a clue. Usage in Ireland probably doesn't warrant it or make financial sense to implement it or some other business type lingo.

As long as you can show the buyer received the item you are more than likely going to be protected, you will be in a non receipt claim anyway.

HarryD

How come paypal cannot do the simple task of confirming if a persons credit card billing address is the address registered with paypal?

Isn't that what verification means ?

I use paypal and moneybookers regularily and I hate both of them.
Moneybookers are excessively paranoid - they will gladly take your money but when it comes to withdrawing it, they have a beaurocratic verification process, which can take weeks.
Recently they added even more beaurocracy, when without notice, accounts were locked (with funds), until
the address associated with the account was verified via snail mail.
I'm still waiting on the snail mail since 18th December, and cannot access my funds since.
Lotsa accumulated interest for moneybookers no doubt.

Paypal protection policy is full of flaws. More often than not they have managed to wiggle their way out of covering me due to some technicality. Recently I disputed an ebay paypal transaction and was told on screen that I wasn't covered for that transaction. Then 1 min later I get an email telling me I am covered.. flakey

As I understand it, the reason many sellers will only post to a confirmed address is for coverage by their own insurance.
I guess serious sellers realise paypal's protection is useless so don't rely on it.

rubadub

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

How come paypal cannot do the simple task of confirming if a persons credit card billing address is the address registered with paypal?

Because they are brutal, with disgraceful service. Whatever happened to googles pay system? bet it would be great if it caught on, cant be worse than paypal.

It is in a sellers interest to not accept paypal, and for you to use those other methods. The other methods mean the buyer pays extra, when you buy via paypal they take a % from the seller of what you pay.

Vikings

rubadub wrote: »

Because they are brutal, with disgraceful service. Whatever happened to googles pay system? bet it would be great if it caught on, cant be worse than paypal.

It is in a sellers interest to not accept paypal, and for you to use those other methods. The other methods mean the buyer pays extra, when you buy via paypal they take a % from the seller of what you pay.

Thats possible. Though i'd say its because the volume of use in Ireland does not call for it. I don't have any figures on it but the percentage of use in Ireland compared to the UK would be very very small.

Most seller's accept PayPal because most buyers will insist on using it, mainly because of the protection offered to buyers.

You will find that people who bad mouth PayPal have had a bad experience with them at some stage, which is grand I suppose. But there will be a reason for that bad experience and you will find that this reason is never shared along with the bad mouthing

rubadub

Vikings wrote: »

Most seller's accept PayPal because most buyers will insist on using it, mainly because of the protection offered to buyers.

But the sneaky method is to say you do accept paypal and then refuse to accept it, like how the OP did. Even if the seller did state unconfirmed addresses are not acceptable many people are ignorant to what that means, or overlooked it.

Vikings wrote: »

You will find that people who bad mouth PayPal have had a bad experience with them at some stage, which is grand I suppose. But there will be a reason for that bad experience and you will find that this reason is never shared along with the bad mouthing

I have had a few bad experiences, with no reasonable explanations from them, one regarding currency exchanging and balances. Another where I put in a complaint which then they decidied they never recieved, and claimed I was out of the timeframe allowed to complain about non-received items, this is a joke, as going by their own ebay recommendations
I should wait until this time frame is over before I make a complaint!

I learned my lesson, use them if you must, but if you have a complaint just ignore them, go to your bank and get the C/C charged back to the bastards, that way you get all the money back that you lost. Paypal will screw you like a whore everytime they can. I have never got a full refund for any transaction that went wrong.

A Dub in Glasgo

rubadub wrote: »

But the sneaky method is to say you do accept paypal and then refuse to accept it, like how the OP did. Even if the seller did state unconfirmed addresses are not acceptable many people are ignorant to what that means, or overlooked it.

How is that sneaky. Are sellers now responsible for the ignorance of the buyer or the fact that the buyer cannot read?

A Dub in Glasgo

Vikings wrote: »

Most seller's accept PayPal because most buyers will insist on using it, mainly because of the protection offered to buyers.

Most sellers accept paypal because ebay have removed all buyer protection for the transaction

Ebay used to have buyer protection which they have now removed. This was done to increase the profit of ebay who, of course, own paypal.

rubadub

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

How is that sneaky. Are sellers now responsible for the ignorance of the buyer or the fact that the buyer cannot read?

Some are preying on ignorance, might be legally OK, but immoral and underhanded IMO. I won an auction once where the guy was trying to make out as though the item he was selling was a different model. He did not specifically lie, it was borderline, but obvious what he was trying to do. I never paid and he opened a dispute, I told ebay what he was at and he never took it further. It would be like selling a car with an opening bid of €50,000. Then if you went over the entire auction details you could see that actually the description would cover a toy car, but was obviously trying to pass it off as a real one.

Of course most sellers are legitimate in descriptions. If I have an auction where I think some people maybe confused I will spell out my concerns very clearly, in huge text. Sellers are responsible for giving clear descriptions and warnings, it is in the interest of both parties, unless they are trying to pull a fast one. Presume most potential bidders are ignorant of how ebay & paypal works, since most are.

A Dub in Glasgo

If it is stated in the listing, it is not immoral or underhand to only accept paypal from accounts with confirmed addresses.

Vikings

rubadub wrote: »

Some are preying on ignorance, might be legally OK, but immoral and underhanded IMO. I won an auction once where the guy was trying to make out as though the item he was selling was a different model. He did not specifically lie, it was borderline, but obvious what he was trying to do.

Of course most sellers are legitimate in descriptions. If I have an auction where I think some people maybe confused I will spell out my concerns very clearly, in huge text. Sellers are responsible for giving clear descriptions and warnings, it is in the interest of both parties, unless they are trying to pull a fast one. Presume most potential bidders are ignorant of how ebay & paypal works, since most are.

What you are saying is true. I work claims every day and the amount of dishonest seller's out there is amazing, not even dishonest but more just sneaky. Like advertising a box for a psp for example and only mentioning the word box once and then going on to give a detailed description of what a psp is with specs and everything. If its listed as a box and you buy a box it is your fault completely but there are a lot of people out there who try this everyday. Ebay do remove these auctions when they are found but there are still people who get caught by them.

The one good thing, and only good thing to take from the above that the amount of good seller's far outweighs the number of bad ones 99.x:0.x it's that much, but because there is such a high volume of ebay users it appears as though there are far more bad apples than good ones!

Just about the highlighted bit in your quote, its amazing how many people - both buyers and sellers - have no idea how paypal works. Especially when it comes to claims, its all laid out in the user agreement (not that many bother to read it) and then people complain when it goes against them. I could rant all day about that


...just like some people could probably rant all day about paypal

rubadub

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

If it is stated in the listing, it is not immoral or underhand to only accept paypal from accounts with confirmed addresses.

Ebay could easily do something about this situation. I have more a problem with ebay/paypal allowing this confusion than the seller. I bet if you asked most people if their address was confirmed they wouldnt have a clue what you were on about. Others will presume it is confirmed since they have your c/c details and presume it means it must only go to that address. Many companies will only deliver to the registered address on a c/c, most people are used to this since the 80's or before, and I bet most of these would ignorantly think their own billing address is the confirmed one, and presume thats what paypal meant- I presumed mine was confirmed a while back for this same reason.

From what I hear here you cannot have a confirmed address in Ireland (unless some oddball case like a US cc with irish address if possible). You should be able to set up your account to say you will ONLY be paying via paypal. In which case when a seller opens an auction and says confirmed address only- then if an Irish bidder even tries to bid on it he should be prevented from doing so, and given an explanation as to why. Ebay know most people only use paypal, hence the search function to filter them out. A "unconfirmed address paypal" search function would be perfect for me.

If a UK seller has description set as "uk only" then if I did go to bid on the item it is automatically refused. I can ask the seller to change the auction.

I presume the majority of transactions are via paypal, so it makes sense to have a better search option, also avoids a lot of grief. It is almost like ebay/paypal want to leave themselves open to misunderstandings.

If you buy concert tickets all sorts of warnings come up. If you try an bid on a "confirmed only" auction it should have at least a warning.

The OP said he bought from another place with the exact same stipulations, dunno if the original seller had stated no unconfirmed addresses in the first auction.

A Dub in Glasgo

I believe ebay in the US offer this option but not in Europe.

I still do not know why paypal do not confirm peoples address - it is standard financial practice as you have pointed out. Look at the threads on boards to see the ignorance and confusion of a confirmed address. A lot of sellers are ignorant that their paypal seller protection is ineligible when they accept payment from a unconfirmed account. Hell, a lot of sellers are ignorant about the tracked delivery of items to ensure they are still covered by paypal seller protection.

Wertz

I have a premier seller account (don't sell much these days though), that was used for selling both to the UK and the US....I was convinced that it had been address confirmed until I fell into the trap the OP did and won an item from a seller who stipulated a confirmed address...I argued black and blue that it was...turns out it was only verified (score of 15 and my nationality). I was unaware of the difference and still am to an extent and that's coming from someone using the system regularly for the last 6 yrs; what chance do new or infrequent users have?

What a joke that a company with it's international HQ in Ireland can't confirm an address.
I ahve to suspect that the Irish banking system could have something to do with it...I know on occasion of trying to buy from UK sites with my CC, that they cannot access data to verify a postal address and will ask for additional ID/security checks...when asked as to why, I'm told that it's an issue with our banking system.

I hate missing out on items for the simple reason that it requires a confirmation; it's hard enough to find international sellers willing to ship to here, for reasonable rates.
Someone made the point that it mightn't be worth eBay/Paypal's while for the few thousand Irish customers...but think of what they loose out on by people unable to purchase freely on the site.

rubadub

If the seller would only ship to confirmed addresses then he should have limited the auction to countries where confirmation is available.

rubadub wrote: »

I have had a few bad experiences, with no reasonable explanations from them, one regarding currency exchanging and balances. Another where I put in a complaint which then they decidied they never recieved, and claimed I was out of the timeframe allowed to complain about non-received items, this is a joke, as going by their own ebay recommendations
I should wait until this time frame is over before I make a complaint!

I learned my lesson, use them if you must, but if you have a complaint just ignore them, go to your bank and get the C/C charged back to the bastards, that way you get all the money back that you lost. Paypal will screw you like a whore everytime they can. I have never got a full refund for any transaction that went wrong.

I had a bad experience where they blocked my account for using my da's credit card, in other words it wasn't in my name. They deleted my account after 6 months because the issue wasn't resolved (they wanted me to fax a copy of the statement to the US) and refused to allow me to add the card to another PayPal account because they retained the credit card information - which I believe is a violation of data protection legislation. This was about 5 years ago.

While they are seriously annoying, it's one of the only safe methods of paying.

A Dub in Glasgo

Karsini wrote: »

If the seller would only ship to confirmed addresses then he should have limited the auction to countries where confirmation is available.

Eh? You expect sellers to restrict their auctions because of a deficiency with paypal? How do you expect sellers do this anyway?

I would expect buyers to confirm their address with paypal and if paypal fob them off, they should be asking questions of paypal.

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Eh? You expect sellers to restrict their auctions because of a deficiency with paypal? How do you expect sellers do this anyway?

I would expect buyers to confirm their address with paypal and if paypal fob them off, they should be asking questions of paypal.

I mean, it makes no sense specifying that an item is available worldwide when it obviously isn't.

A Dub in Glasgo

Of course the item is available worldwide. The buyer has many options to pay including paypal with a confirmed address. It cannot be right that sellers restrict where they sell because your paypal account is deficient.

Wertz

eBay and paypal don't even seem to understand the difference...

8. As a seller, am I protected from fraudulent buyers?

All PayPal members with the status of 'Verified' are eligible for protection of up to £3,250 GBP (or equivalent in the currency of the relevant transaction) per year for payments received through PayPal from UK and US buyers for the sale of tangible, physical goods. Seller Protection is a free service. Conditions apply.

http://pages.ebay.ie/help/ebayexplained/paypal/faqs.html


[edit] Actually scratch that....that's from a seller's help page. eBay make no mention anywhere of address confirmation and it takes some digging around on paypal's US site to find out what they mean by confirmed.
As I said above it would appear that paypal have no way of IDing Irish addresses either because of our banking system or because they just haven't bothered their arse to put a system in place for their IE customers.
Perhaps some correspondence might change their minds or at least provide a definite answer as to why we're partly shafted like this...

griffdaddy

i noticed after i ordered the Zune from the second guy that he only ships to confirmed Paypal addresses too, however, unlike the first guy, ebay didnt block my attempt at buying it, and he dispatched the item in the mean time too. I had a question about delivery, and i mentioned i'm in ireland so it could be that he knows we can't confirm or something. if anyone else wants to see what i mean the first seller is called preppytech and the second one is called everythingdigital4u. Maybe the first guy got F'ed in the A before or something and just became a bit more vigilante? it was the first time it's ever happened me anyway

rubadub

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Of course the item is available worldwide. The buyer has many options to pay including paypal with a confirmed address. It cannot be right that sellers restrict where they sell because your paypal account is deficient.

It should be up to ebay to introduce the feature. Like I already said most people will want to pay via paypal. You should be able to set up your account or search function to have an option so any people who will ship to unconfirmed paypal addresses will show up.

I use a search to show just paypal sellers, then I have to sift through them to find who will send to an unconfirmed address.

The seller has done nothing wrong, but as everybody knows the majority of ebay users are ignorant of how to use ebay, let alone realise they have a unconfirmed address, as I mentioned many would presume it is confirmed since paypal have their C/C details.

I imagine a lot of trouble is caused by the lack of this feature. If you win an auction it could take an hour to go through the hassle of registering etc to pay with these other sites AND they usually charge high commisions for doing so. -for this reason many winners might end up with neg feedback, after refusing to pay via some other method. Yes the buyer is in the wrong but ebay have done nothing to help matters.

A Dub in Glasgo

Cannot disagree with a word you have posted