Out of service?

rugbug86

Should Dublin Buses be allowed to go "out of service" before they reach the terminus?

Now its around 12 stops from the terminus that I get on to go to college, and a lot of elderly folks do too to go to the shops etc, but I've noticed that sometimes the drivers have "Out of Service" up when they have an empty bus. This morning the bus was "Out of Service" and he stopped to let me on, but said "I normally don't stop after the last passenger gets off, but I felt sorry for you"

So is this common practice? For bus men to decide they don't want to take anymore passengers and just speed away to the terminus?

Trampas

I guess they would be warned/sacked if this was known to the controller

Cookie_Monster

This happens constantly AFAIK.

I've seen it on numerous routes at all times of the day. The 145 into town from Bray is particularly bad for it, frequently going out of service when it reaches Foxrock Church or UCD.
It also runs as a 3 the odd time and terminates at Belfield despite the 3 being a valid route that goes an entirely different route and part of the city.

markpb

rugbug86 wrote: »

Now its around 12 stops from the terminus that I get on to go to college, and a lot of elderly folks do too to go to the shops etc, but I've noticed that sometimes the drivers have "Out of Service" up when they have an empty bus. This morning the bus was "Out of Service" and he stopped to let me on, but said "I normally don't stop after the last passenger gets off, but I felt sorry for you"

This is ridiculous and should be reported at every occasion. If he doesn't want to pick up passengers, he shouldn't be a bus driver.

On the other hand...

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I've seen it on numerous routes at all times of the day. The 145 into town from Bray is particularly bad for it, frequently going out of service when it reaches Foxrock Church or UCD.

This is perfectly valid because it is ordered by the route controller in the depot. If a bus gets badly stuck in traffic, they might decide to run lights-out for a while to allow it to catch up time so it can make it's next departure time. If it picked up and dropped off, the chances are it would arrive too late and the next running would be cancelled.

Cookie_Monster

markpb wrote: »

This is perfectly valid because it is ordered by the route controller in the depot. If a bus gets badly stuck in traffic, they might decide to run lights-out for a while to allow it to catch up time so it can make it's next departure time. If it picked up and dropped off, the chances are it would arrive too late and the next running would be cancelled.

No its not, what about all the customers for the next 4 dozen stops into town?? And the bus doesn't really go much faster as it still has to stop to let people off.

There are hundreds of idle buses in depots during the day that can be called to fill the next timetable slot, while a bus runs its full route, even if late.


It's poor customer service and a lazy response to a problem.

MiniD

I've seen this happen quite a bit, particularly with longer bus routes when heading inbound to the city, they will switch to Out Of Service or Private Hire and let other routes collect passengers. I don't accept the argument that buses should go out of service to make up time. You're just delaying one group of passengers to please another.

I have also noticed when some buses change driver, where the engine is turned off or they input their driver details into the bus, it switches the display to Out Of Service or the whole destination panel goes blank for a while.

January

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

No its not, what about all the customers for the next 4 dozen stops into town?? And the bus doesn't really go much faster as it still has to stop to let people off.

There are hundreds of idle buses in depots during the day that can be called to fill the next timetable slot, while a bus runs its full route, even if late.


It's poor customer service and a lazy response to a problem.

Do busses drive themselves these days? They may not have the manpower to put these busses out on the road at certain times of the day.

meanmachine3

there could be one of many reasons why he was out of service.
he could've been driving an express bus.
instructed when he gets to a certain area to blank it out because maybe there are other routes working that road.e.g. route 27 in service in darndale but as soon as they reach the malahide road they are told to blank it out because of other routes on the road.
i would safely say the driver did not do this on his own bat ,to do so could lead to dismissal.

Cookie_Monster

meanmachine3 wrote: »

i would safely say the driver did not do this on his own bat ,to do so could lead to dismissal.

It wouldn't surpirse me if he did. A similar thing happens on an outbound 7B most evenings. One of the buses, usually 5.20 or 5.30 bus runs to Cherrywood instead of Shankill as driver wants to save turnaround time as he runs as a 7 back into town from there. Cherrywood is not a terminus for the 7B.

I have complained about this on several occasions and been assured by both the routemaster in Donnybrook and by customer service that the 7B should not go to Cherrywood and this will be addressed yet the driver(s) continue to use this practice.

Cookie_Monster

meanmachine3 wrote: »

there could be one of many reasons why he was out of service.
he could've been driving an express bus.

Why would an express bus show out of service instead of the number, i.e. 41x etc

shltter

Controllers do it all the time

Work to point X and then blank it out and just drop off from there

Work it out and as soon as you get empty blank it out and proceed to the terminus or pull it in etc

The bus was probably late leaving the terminus and the controllers will do that to try and get it back on track but still provide a service to the majority of customers.

Another one I have been asked to do is clear a section of the route and then drop people where they can pick up a bus going in a similar direction its not ideal but sometimes it is the only option when traffic is bad

shltter

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

There are hundreds of idle buses in depots during the day that can be called to fill the next timetable slot, while a bus runs its full route, even if late.

LOL yeah loads of them

Honestly the number of days I turn up for work and there is no bus for me full stop because every thing is out on the road and those that are not are not fit to be on the road.

Then there are controllers literally begging people to do overtime because there are not enough drivers.

Do you seriously think that with a fleet of just 1100 buses for the entire city there are hundreds of buses and drivers sitting around doing nothing all day

dazberry

51 went out of service in Inchicore this morning. I tend to get the 51 if its the first bus that comes along in the mornings and it tends to be pretty empty. Bus looked normal until it got stopped at lights, driver then turned off all internal lights. Turns out it was completely empty and I'd guess they weren't subsequently going to bother running it into town. Driver waved at me to get the next bus, no bother for me as I was going into town so I got the next 51b - but I'd have been a bit peeved if I was trying to get to Conyngham Rd.

D.

shltter

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Why would an express bus show out of service instead of the number, i.e. 41x etc

Express buses only pick up at designated stops often it is easier to blank it out than argue with people who want to board at non designated stops


So for example the 41x last pick up point is drumcondra i think it is easier when he gets out to swords to blank it out than to explain and argue at every stop with people who are "just going up the road"
If you pick them up then the people who paid to be expressed home complain that bus is picking up passengers at non designated stops.

decsramble

Trampas wrote: »

I guess they would be warned/sacked if this was known to the controller

Lol, sure, maybe in a real company but in a trade union run semi-state no chance. Probably get an award for doing the fastest round trip instead.

shltter

decsramble wrote: »

Lol, sure, maybe in a real company but in a trade union run semi-state no chance. Probably get an award for doing the fastest round trip instead.

Yeah nobody gets sacked in Dublin Bus :rolleyes:

Honestly you people haven't a ****in clue

Cookie_Monster

shltter wrote: »

LOL yeah loads of them

....
Do you seriously think that with a fleet of just 1100 buses for the entire city there are hundreds of buses

Drive past Donnybrook any time out side rush hour and you'll see them plain as day! easily 50 to 70 sitting there, probably a smaller number in other depots but still adds up to at least 200 odd IMO.

And it's not entirely due to lack of drivers, there simply isin't the demand during the day or late in the evening to have all the buses on the road.

Cookie_Monster

shltter wrote: »

Express buses only pick up at designated stops often it is easier to blank it out than argue with people who want to board at non designated stops

People don't get on at non designated stop because the bus does not stop at them... I thought that would be a pretty obvious point.

And before you argue that the bus may be stopping to let people off at those stop, they are meant to pick up AND dop off only at designated stops, unless expressly stated on the busstop or timetable, i.e. busstop is "Set down only"

shltter

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

People don't get on at non designated stop because the bus does not stop at them... I thought that would be a pretty obvious point.

And before you argue that the bus may be stopping to let people off at those stop, they are meant to pick up AND dop off only at designated stops, unless expressly stated on the busstop or timetable, i.e. busstop is "Set down only"

No it has a last pick up point

then no pick ups or set downs till in the case of the 41x i think it is pinnock hill then set down at every stop requested till terminus

markf909

shltter wrote: »

Another one I have been asked to do is clear a section of the route and then drop people where they can pick up a bus going in a similar direction its not ideal but sometimes it is the only option when traffic is bad

What happens to these passengers, given the absence of a single ticket, do they wave their crumbled ticket at the driver?

Cookie_Monster

shltter wrote: »

Another one I have been asked to do is clear a section of the route and then drop people where they can pick up a bus going in a similar direction its not ideal but sometimes it is the only option when traffic is bad

And that is supposed to be accectable on a public service?

Honestly, only in Ireland:rolleyes:

shltter

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Drive past Donnybrook any time out side rush hour and you'll see them plain as day! easily 50 to 70 sitting there, probably a smaller number in other depots but still adds up to at least 200 odd IMO.

And it's not entirely due to lack of drivers, there simply isin't the demand during the day or late in the evening to have all the buses on the road.

There will be a small number of buses in the yard due to maintenance

The others are coming in and going back out they are all allocated so you might see some buses but they are not available trust me.
Late evening yes there are buses spare but that is not much good if you are looking for one at 3 o'clock.

All the buses that can be are on the road or allocated to be on the road from early morning to around 10 then some buses come back in but these are needed for drivers starting duties and returning from breaks.
Also buses are used to replace buses that have broken down or need repair.

Then from 3 till after 7 pretty much all the fleet is out again.

There is no big surplus of buses sitting around when they are needed out in service often there are not enough buses so you have to wait while they repair a broken window etc

And even if there was there are no drivers to drive them.

If you think that the controllers could just ring up and get extra buses when they want you are massively mistaken.

Look at when the Darts break down during peak there is no fleet of buses at the ready to move those people because we have a huge lack of buses in this city.

If you don't believe me listen to Conor Faughnan he is forever talking about the Buses being at full capacity in the city

We have pretty much the same amount of buses we had 20 years ago until recently all the buses provided by the government had to be discounted by a bus being scrapped so they bought 200 buses what they did not tell you was that they scrapped 200 as well.

Improvements like the new 128 service have only come about because the Government was embarrassed in to it where is the new 141 it does not exist nearly 2 years after it was due to come into service. While Brand new buses that DB had bought but were not allowed to use sat up in Broadstone.

If you think we have a crap bus service place the blame where it belongs at the feet of the Dept of Transport not at drivers and controllers trying to make the service run as best as they can despite the Dept of Transport not with the help of it.

shltter

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

And that is supposed to be accectable on a public service?

Honestly, only in Ireland:rolleyes:

No that is doing the best you can with the resources provided

We can't make the buses fly
We can't produce buses where none exist.

What should be acceptable and what you can actually do are unfortunately two different things.

Again if you want to have a moan it should be directed at those responsible

namely the Dept Of Transport.

shltter

markf909 wrote: »

What happens to these passengers, given the absence of a single ticket, do they wave their crumbled ticket at the driver?

You don't take any fares just carry them to a point where they can get another bus they pay getting on the next bus if they need it.

markf909

shltter wrote: »

Again if you want to have a moan it should be directed at those responsible

namely the Dept Of Transport.

And your local TD's as well.

I hope, maybe unreasonably, that with the DTA bill and the EU investigation out of the way, we may start to see progress towards the end of this year.

meanmachine3

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

People don't get on at non designated stop because the bus does not stop at them... I thought that would be a pretty obvious point.

And before you argue that the bus may be stopping to let people off at those stop, they are meant to pick up AND dop off only at designated stops, unless expressly stated on the busstop or timetable, i.e. busstop is "Set down only"

maybe you should read page 240 of the time table book cookie under general information.

every day we get lots passengers boarding the wrong buses becuase of the simple fact they dont look. they might see 41 but not the x.

please feel free to get an aplication form, we're always looking for drivers then you'll see the other side of the coin.
in most garages all the buses are gone by 8.30-9am anyone starting after that usually has to wait for a bus to arrive back from being out at all hours in the morning.

oh by the way while markf909 is on the subject of T.D.'s
why dont you ask them(your local T.D.'s) why some private operators have injuntions on dublin bus to stop them from putting bigger buses on certain routes where and when they are most certainly needed. so please less of the dublin bus this/that and the other.

MiniD

meanmachine3 wrote: »

every day we get lots passengers boarding the wrong buses becuase of the simple fact they dont look. they might see 41 but not the x.

Perhaps passengers have lost faith in the correct destination being displayed. Despite the upgrade to electronic destination displays, there are still many errors. Route changes are not updated and very often the display is misleading. If you're unlucky enough to have a bus using the old scroll type displays, you are relying on the driver displaying the right destination.

trellheim

Perhaps the time has come for DB to operate unlicenced services<-[tongue firmly in cheek ] . It seems to be the way to go as the DOT has shown it will not crack down on unlicenced operators.

:rolleyes:

AlekSmart

Not quite as daft as it sounds,sadly however the closest Dublin Bus management got was the "extra" departures on the 25X from out Grangecastle way and as soon as THE MAN was made aware of those (Perhaps that RSA HotLine IS useful after all ) they were rapidly dispensed with.

One contributory factor to this debate,touched upon over on Archiseek.com`s forum is how Dublin`s senior planners mainly came to the Capital from the provinces,in some cases the furthest reaches of the Celtic Empire.

In many cases these people struggled upwards through the then Dublin centred Civil Service,ekeing out a miserable existance in a grotty bedsit while living only for the Friday "TravelClub" Bus home to peace and security in the "Home Place".

Dublin was seen as a vast unfriendly dangerous place,populated by ruffians and wideboys ever ready to pounce and fleece a poor unsuspecting country lad/lassie.
Essentially these Lads/Lassies remained true to their own stock and thus Gards married Teachers et al....:o

The legacy of this today is a far flung and all pervasive Senior Grade Civil Servant who has little regard or even understanding of the Urban Environment or the "Townies" who inhabit it.
No understanding of the need to build UP instead of OUT.
No understanding of direct fast linear travel options as opposed to a leisurely drive through the urban sprawl.
No understanding of the "Greater Good" philosophy as opposed to the Half-Acre for everybody prevalent in the rural idyll.

Also,many of the administrative army were treated harshly by landlords and an army of commercial leeches who made millions on the back of catering for the "Bedsitters".

This situation some 40 years ago has left us today in a bit of a bind,as we struggle to come to terms with what in anybodys terms is an urban planning disaster...

The City was essentially planned by and for a sector which saw it as foreign and acted accordingly

Small wonder then,that the 16 nips down the straight as opposed to heading cross-country...It`s probably being driven by a Dub !!!!!

John R

trellheim wrote: »

Perhaps the time has come for DB to operate unlicenced services<-[tongue firmly in cheek ] . It seems to be the way to go as the DOT has shown it will not crack down on unlicenced operators.

:rolleyes:

Passing by the still running presumably without a licence Patton Flyer this AM parked illegally as usual in marked P+D spots I was just thinking the same thing.

At this stage we have all the disadvantages of a civil service controlled inflexible unresponsive monolith AND all the disadvantages of a deregulated unintegrated free-for-all wrapped up in one overcongested city.


While the OP and other dis-satisfied passengers are here moaning about the drivers and route controllers, consider this; These people for the most part are doing their best to carry out their jobs in an increasingly difficult environment with stiffling regulations and very little power to change any of the deficciencies that are obvious to everyone at ground level while earning €30-40k.

Meanwhile these people are the ones with all the real power who are the architects and enforcers of the disgraceful mess all public transport providers have to work within and they all are on salaries of €140-210k.

By all means contact them directly and ask them to justify their huge pay packets while overseeing years of a complete farce in bus regulation that has had a huge effect on large sections of the population who deserve a civil service that put the needs of the public first.

corktina

I dont know squat about DB but I would have thought it is common practise on all bus companies to have short workings and extras on at rush hour and also for controllers to turn buses back at busy times when they are needed elsewhere.... its only the buses on the Timtable that would have to run as shown...

trellheim

If you are trying to get funding for more buses you will have them all on the road at peak...

mrmldy

i always get the 19a 4 or 4a and all of them are always out of service in the middle of the route. it drives me mad when you have to wait 30 mins for a bus when iv seen up to 7 or 8 go by out of service.
ive always thought this was the biggest waste. if they're on the road then they should be picking up passengers rather than driving about congesting the roads.
just another reason to hate the irish transport system!

MiniD

mrmldy wrote: »

i always get the 19a 4 or 4a and all of them are always out of service in the middle of the route.

How do you know these buses are 4s and 19s if they are out of service? While I'm not disputing that buses can appear Out Of Service, I find it hard that to believe 7 or 8 buses would pass out of service while operating. Do these buses have passengers on them or are they empty?

Is there a chance you're living on the main route to a garage, where buses could be passing to take up service on another route?

To be fair, Dublin Bus does it's best to ensure most buses are used to it's maximum. In-fact, the recent bus strike was because Dublin Bus drivers on Route 4/4A were no longer allowed drive their buses back to the depot to change/end shift and do it in town instead. It's similar with the 19/19A.

mrmldy

no they're completely empty and its phibsboro sc so not a main route.
and i know they're 4s and 19a because, its still written up on the sign most of the time.
im not saying that they are always out of service but a lot are and it only happened once that i saw that many out of service but once was enough, i ended up waiting a very long time for a bus that day because of it

Ham'nd'egger

mrmldy wrote: »

no they're completely empty and its phibsboro sc so not a main route.
and i know they're 4s and 19a because, its still written up on the sign most of the time.
im not saying that they are always out of service but a lot are and it only happened once that i saw that many out of service but once was enough, i ended up waiting a very long time for a bus that day because of it

19/A operate from Phibsboro garage; 4/4A used to prior to Harristown opening so they were most likely going to and from their depots. The 4's may have been making their way towards the southside termini in Blackrock.

mrmldy

doesnt really matter it just annoying wen u see them when ur waiting for a bus for ages

Ham'nd'egger

mrmldy wrote: »

doesnt really matter it just annoying wen u see them when ur waiting for a bus for ages

Ok, next time you wait there, I'll get them to go another way

MiniD

mrmldy wrote: »

and i know they're 4s and 19a because, its still written up on the sign most of the time.

If they are still displaying 4 and 19, then how are the Out Of Service?

mrmldy wrote: »

no they're completely empty and its phibsboro sc so not a main route.

This would be the main route for buses heading to Broadstone/Phibsboro, it would also be the main route for OOS route 83 buses, heading to the Southside.

mrmldy wrote: »

im not saying that they are always out of service but a lot

Your first post said "i always get the 19a 4 or 4a and all of them are always out of service in the middle of the route.".

While it's frustrating to see buses running out of service, you'll find these buses are like that for a reason, rather than just driving around the city empty.