Licence Query?

storka

Hi just wondering if you guys could help with a question!!

I'm on first provisional which expires in March. Just wondering what I have to apply for with the new system. I don't have to go back and get a lerners permit do I?

I just got my test date for February but due to college/not being ready for a test i'm going to rearrange it until end of March/April.

So basically what licence do I apply for? If its back to a lerners then I might have to try my test before my prov expires!?

Thanks

chris85

As far as i know you are on a learners permit now. As soon as the new rules were brought in all provisional licence holders were considered as learner drivers.

Can ask why it makes a difference if you renew your licence and its called a learner permit? There is no difference in the provisional licence and learner licence except you must be driving 6 months before you get your test (which you have) and you have to be accompained (which you should be now unless you are on second licence and if so your next provo would be third and you would require accompanying person)

I would just prepare and do the test in March.

storka

chris85 wrote: »

As far as i know you are on a learners permit now. As soon as the new rules were brought in all provisional licence holders were considered as learner drivers.

Can ask why it makes a difference if you renew your licence and its called a learner permit? There is no difference in the provisional licence and learner licence except you must be driving 6 months before you get your test (which you have) and you have to be accompained (which you should be now unless you are on second licence and if so your next provo would be third and you would require accompanying person)

I would just prepare and do the test in March.

Ok so I can get renew my licence to a learners permit but still be able to take my test not having had it 6 months? Basically all im worried about is having to wait another 6 months.

Its a strange system really. Is there a second learners permit for people who dont pass while on there lerners permit or do you just stay on lerners permits until you pass?!!!

chris85

storka wrote: »

Ok so I can get renew my licence to a learners permit but still be able to take my test not having had it 6 months? Basically all im worried about is having to wait another 6 months.

Its a strange system really. Is there a second learners permit for people who dont pass while on there lerners permit or do you just stay on lerners permits until you pass?!!!

You are on a lerners permit now, your provisional licence was changed to a learners permit when the rules changed. I presume you have been driving 6months now anyway on your provo so can do the test whenever.

Its a good system really, just people bit confused about it. Will be good in the long run for everyone. Glad im passed it all at this stage :cool:

Stark

You'll be on a "second learners permit", which will be different to a second provisional in that you can't drive unaccompanied but you won't have to wait 6 months to take your test.

storka

Stark wrote: »

You'll be on a "second learners permit", which will be different to a second provisional in that you can't drive unaccompanied but you won't have to wait 6 months to take your test.

Ok thanks for everyones help! Just didnt want to have to wait another 6 months before taking my test!

storka

Stark wrote: »

You'll be on a "second learners permit", which will be different to a second provisional in that you can't drive unaccompanied but you won't have to wait 6 months to take your test.

Just thought id let you guys know this is not the case!!

Emailed to get my date changed and asked them about the change from my current provisional to a learners permit and they said i would still have to wait 6 months!!!! This is terrible for people who are on current provisionals.

I'm now gonna have to take my test before my current provisional expires or else be forced to wait 6 months!

Thankfully the woman from SGS was really nice and able to help me out!

L1011

chris85 wrote: »

As far as i know you are on a learners permit now. As soon as the new rules were brought in all provisional licence holders were considered as learner drivers..

Except the rules for existing provisional licence holders *have not been brought in yet*.

storka

MYOB wrote: »

Except the rules for existing provisional licence holders *have not been brought in yet*.

What has that got to do with this thread?

L1011

storka wrote: »

What has that got to do with this thread?

Its a response to another post in the thread, that is how forums work...

jgally

I'm on my second prov license ... do i need to be accompanied by a full license driver or am i legally allowed to drive alone ?

L1011

You can drive alone until June.

jgally

Cheers mate

storka

MYOB wrote: »

Its a response to another post in the thread, that is how forums work...

Yes but it has nothing to do with the query!?

L1011

storka wrote: »

Yes but it has nothing to do with the query!?

And thats relevant how?

squishywishy

i'm going to rearrange it until end of March/April.

how can you just rearrange it?? wont you have to cancel it and go to the back of the line???

susanna

storka wrote: »

Just thought id let you guys know this is not the case!!

Emailed to get my date changed and asked them about the change from my current provisional to a learners permit and they said i would still have to wait 6 months!!!! This is terrible for people who are on current provisionals.

I'm now gonna have to take my test before my current provisional expires or else be forced to wait 6 months!

Thankfully the woman from SGS was really nice and able to help me out!

That's not the case, the person in SGS has given you the wrong information.

From the FAQ's on the RSA website:

A person who is a first time holder of a learner permit, for a motorcycle, works vehicle or car (licence categories M, A1, A, W, B and EB) cannot take a driving test for a six month period after the commencement date of the permit.

Q. When is this change coming into effect?

A. This change will apply to first time learner permit holders for motorcycles, works vehicles and cars after 30 October 2007. Any newly licenced person holding a learner permit must wait six months before taking a driving test.

Q: My first provisional licence is about to expire and I will be renewing it after the implementation date for the new rule; will the learner permit I receive be considered a first time learner permit holder?

A: No, as you already held a provisional licence you are not considered to be a first time learner permit holder and the six month rule will not apply to you.

My first provisional expired in November and when I renewed I was issued with a Second Learner Permit, which is exactly the same as the second provisional

jhegarty

squishywishy wrote: »

how can you just rearrange it?? wont you have to cancel it and go to the back of the line???

yep , thats how it works....

aniascor

susanna wrote: »

My first provisional expired in November and when I renewed I was issued with a Second Learner Permit, which is exactly the same as the second provisional

I thought the driving unaccompanied rule didn't apply to Second Learner Permit, the way that it does to Second Provisional, so in that sense, it isn't the same?

susanna

aniascor wrote: »

I thought the driving unaccompanied rule didn't apply to Second Learner Permit, the way that it does to Second Provisional, so in that sense, it isn't the same?

The Learner Permit is just a new name for the Provisional. If you have a Second Learner Permit you can drive unaccompanied until 30th June, same as on a second provisional. Thats on the RSA website somewhere too

aniascor

Thanks susanna. That makes sense. I went on to the RSA website, but all I could find was a set of links to the old Provisional license information. You'd think given all the fuss that page would have been replaced at this stage with Learner Permit information!

susanna

Its a tricky one to find alright!

Follow this link
http://www.rsa.ie/NEWS/News/Statement_Issued_by_the_Department_of_Transport_28th_October.html

At the end of the page there's a link to Frequently Asked Questions and its all in there

Dick Turnip

Right I have a query which is similar to op query i think so didnt want to start a new thread.
Basically, 23 now, got 1st prov license when i was 17 with full intention of doing test. However due to never really needing a car, or learning to drive i never did the test - was never even insured.
I applied for test few months back and found out this week it is in a couple of months but I need to apply for 2nd prov license. Do these still exist? can I simply reapply for a 2nd license or will I have to get one of the new learner permits and gain 6months experience before i can sit the test?

Dick Turnip

Dick Turnip wrote: »

Right I have a query which is similar to op query i think so didnt want to start a new thread.
Basically, 23 now, got 1st prov license when i was 17 with full intention of doing test. However due to never really needing a car, or learning to drive i never did the test - was never even insured.
I applied for test few months back and found out this week it is in a couple of months but I need to apply for 2nd prov license. Do these still exist? can I simply reapply for a 2nd license or will I have to get one of the new learner permits and gain 6months experience before i can sit the test?

sorry only looked back at the last few posts there! found my answer!
thanks susanna!

Dick Turnip

but on another note - is the only way to reapply for license to send into relevant forms and photos to your local office?
someone in work said you can turn up at the office and they will process your license that day if you're applying for a second prov. license/permit.
Not sure if this is true or not though.

Wishbone Ash

susanna wrote: »

My first provisional expired in November and when I renewed I was issued with a Second Learner Permit, which is exactly the same as the second provisional

aniascor wrote: »

I thought the driving unaccompanied rule didn't apply to Second Learner Permit, the way that it does to Second Provisional, so in that sense, it isn't the same?

susanna wrote: »

The Learner Permit is just a new name for the Provisional. If you have a Second Learner Permit you can drive unaccompanied until 30th June, same as on a second provisional. Thats on the RSA website somewhere too

susanna - I don't think your interpretation of the regulations is correct.

The exemption from being accompanied on a second provisional licence in category B applied only to those who have held the second provisional licence prior to the 30th October last. Any licences issued after that date (i.e. now 2nd Learner Permits) fall under the new regulations.

In effect, all Learner Permit holders in categories B, BE, C1, C1E, C, CE, D1, D1E, D, DE are legally required to be accompanied at all times while driving on a public road.

I would be delighted if someone could provide a specific link indicating that I'm incorrect as I haven't been able to find one (and I would have a greater than average interest in this area).

storka

susanna wrote: »

That's not the case, the person in SGS has given you the wrong information.

From the FAQ's on the RSA website:

A person who is a first time holder of a learner permit, for a motorcycle, works vehicle or car (licence categories M, A1, A, W, B and EB) cannot take a driving test for a six month period after the commencement date of the permit.

Q. When is this change coming into effect?

A. This change will apply to first time learner permit holders for motorcycles, works vehicles and cars after 30 October 2007. Any newly licenced person holding a learner permit must wait six months before taking a driving test.

Q: My first provisional licence is about to expire and I will be renewing it after the implementation date for the new rule; will the learner permit I receive be considered a first time learner permit holder?

A: No, as you already held a provisional licence you are not considered to be a first time learner permit holder and the six month rule will not apply to you.

My first provisional expired in November and when I renewed I was issued with a Second Learner Permit, which is exactly the same as the second provisional

Thanks for this I better ring her back so!!!

squishywishy wrote: »

how can you just rearrange it?? wont you have to cancel it and go to the back of the line???

Yeah you can rearrange up to 2 times before they put you to the back of the list!

ztoical

storka wrote: »

Yeah you can rearrange up to 2 times before they put you to the back of the list!

Can someone clarify if thats right - I thought it was you could ask for a different date up to two times without having to pay again as long as you do it before 10 days of your test date but you go back on the waiting list? I'm sitting mine next week come rain hail or shine but my friend just cancelled his as he has to go to london for a work thing and has to wait again [but not pay]

storka

ztoical wrote: »

Can someone clarify if thats right - I thought it was you could ask for a different date up to two times without having to pay again as long as you do it before 10 days of your test date but you go back on the waiting list? I'm sitting mine next week come rain hail or shine but my friend just cancelled his as he has to go to london for a work thing and has to wait again [but not pay]

No you don't have to go to the back of the list, it says it on the bottom of the sheet they send you out.

I was rearranging mine the other day and the woman on the phone just put mine on hold because i want it in March but they cant give out the March dates yet. I wasn't put at the back of the list.

susanna

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

susanna - I don't think your interpretation of the regulations is correct.

The exemption from being accompanied on a second provisional licence in category B applied only to those who have held the second provisional licence prior to the 30th October last. Any licences issued after that date (i.e. now 2nd Learner Permits) fall under the new regulations.

In effect, all Learner Permit holders in categories B, BE, C1, C1E, C, CE, D1, D1E, D, DE are legally required to be accompanied at all times while driving on a public road.

I would be delighted if someone could provide a specific link indicating that I'm incorrect as I haven't been able to find one (and I would have a greater than average interest in this area).

If you follow the link to the RSA website that I posted above, it says this in the FAQ's (first page):

A person while holding a second learner permit or second provisional licence can drive unaccompanied in the period up to 30 June 2008.

Wishbone Ash

susanna wrote: »

If you follow the link to the RSA website that I posted above, it says this in the FAQ's (first page):

A person while holding a second learner permit or second provisional licence can drive unaccompanied in the period up to 30 June 2008.

Yes, I stand corrected. :eek: They must have changed the FAQs since October as then it stated that the unaccompanied rule exemption only applied to those who held the 2nd licence on 30th October. I specifically remember Minister Dempsey stating that the deferral to June only applied to current 2nd provisional licence holders!



I don't understand why the exemption would be given those on their 2nd Learner Permit as they, unlike those on a 2nd provisional, could never have been legally unaccompanied anyway and therefore would have nothing to lose.

ztoical

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Yes, I stand corrected. :eek: They must have changed the FAQs since October as then it stated that the unaccompanied rule exemption only applied to those who held the 2nd licence on 30th October. I specifically remember Minister Dempsey stating that the deferral to June only applied to current 2nd provisional licence holders!

I don't understand why the exemption would be given those on their 2nd Learner Permit as they, unlike those on a 2nd provisional, could never have been legally unaccompanied anyway and therefore would have nothing to lose.

that was my understanding of it as well, the deferral was just to help those 2nd provisional holders who had applied and were waiting for the test to get it done and out the way

very suprised they've altered it as its seems very silly to let people get use to driving on their own and then have them go back to being accompanied in June. All thats going to happen is they're going to kick up a stink come june or keep driving alone and claim ignorance if stopped

Wishbone Ash

ztoical wrote: »

that was my understanding of it as well, the deferral was just to help those 2nd provisional holders who had applied and were waiting for the test to get it done and out the way

very suprised they've altered it as its seems very silly to let people get use to driving on their own and then have them go back to being accompanied in June. All thats going to happen is they're going to kick up a stink come june or keep driving alone and claim ignorance if stopped

It also begs the question of what happens to the pre 12th August 1985 Provisional Licence holders as arguably they have a greater "entitlement" to continue to drive unaccompanied since they have been permitted to do so for the past 22 years and would surely suffer more hardship than 2nd Licence/Permit holders.

There is no mention of these motorist in any new regulations.

susanna

I think there was a lot of confusion at the time. My first provisional ran out in early November , so I assumed I wouldn't be able to drive alone on my new learner permit. But it seems they treat it exactly the same way as a provisional

squishywishy

ztoical wrote: »

Can someone clarify if thats right - I thought it was you could ask for a different date up to two times without having to pay again as long as you do it before 10 days of your test date but you go back on the waiting list? I'm sitting mine next week come rain hail or shine but my friend just cancelled his as he has to go to london for a work thing and has to wait again [but not pay]

Not so sure if the rearranging is true. I was talking to the RSA recently to find out how long my test date was likely to be...waiting since last April ish.
They said 10 weeks but I still havent heard. If i get a date between the end of Feb and middle of March I cant take the test and the lady from the RSA said if i cancel i go back to the bottom.

Wishbone Ash

squishywishy wrote: »

If i get a date between the end of Feb and middle of March I cant take the test and the lady from the RSA said if i cancel i go back to the bottom.

Did you let them know that in your original application?

squishywishy

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Did you let them know that in your original application?

No because I applied last April so I had no idea at the time that it wouldnt suit me. Im a trainee teacher and will be on my final placement. Cant take a day off to do the test.

storka

squishywishy wrote: »

Not so sure if the rearranging is true. I was talking to the RSA recently to find out how long my test date was likely to be...waiting since last April ish.
They said 10 weeks but I still havent heard. If i get a date between the end of Feb and middle of March I cant take the test and the lady from the RSA said if i cancel i go back to the bottom.

I applied in Spetember, got a test date for February which I can't go to, rang SGS they have rescheduled my test and I have not gone to the bottom of the list.