Yes Or No: If You Are Out of Work, But Genuinely Looking, Will U Always Be Entitled?

IT Loser

....to some form of benefit or the other???

I am a law graduate, and I am looking for legal related work. I can't find any and I can't get an apprenticeship.

The welfare categorically states that you must be "looking for work" but it also uses the word "suitable", i.e. work which is SUITABLE for YOU, the recipient of the claim.

Surely, at 29 yoa, and trying to forge a decent career, they aren't going to ask me to go back to the pits, or make coffee in O'Briens {Honourable pursuits but hardly progress for me at this stage}

I have been on JS Benefit for a while now and I fear it may be stopped, leaving me in a very bad place indeed, so what are my options?

Will I always get a few bob in some way shape or form?

Or what??

Cheers!

Nolanger

You should be allowed up to 3 months signing on to find work solely in your specialised field.
After that you would be expected to look for work in other areas.

IT Loser

Nolanger wrote: »

You should be allowed up to 3 months signing on to find work solely in your specialised field.
After that you would be expected to look for work in other areas.

I have tried. But.............:(

Anyways, the crux of my question relates to whether the State is obliged to provide for a recipient where the recipient is genuinely looking for work.

Thanks anyways.

;)

Mrs. MacGyver

If you do not broaden your efforts after a period of time as nolanger states above then you are expected to look for work in other fields. See www.welfare.ie for more information.

IT Loser

Mrs. MacGyver wrote: »

If you do not broaden your efforts after a period of time as nolanger states above then you are expected to look for work in other fields. See www.welfare.ie for more information.

Thanks, I have broadened my fields to no success, as of recent. I have emails from people i have applied to, I will keep these as proof. Thanks again.:cool:

jk2002

My friend had asimilar experience after leaving college. her degrre is in biology she got the dole for four months and during this time she did many interviews for science jobs and didnt get offered any work. The dole told her she had to get any job and she did ask them about that suitable job thing they told her at this point because she was able bodied a suitable job was any job she was qaulified for. She worked in a newsagents during college so was qualified for that thats what she went back too.

IT Loser

jk2002 wrote: »

My friend had asimilar experience after leaving college. her degrre is in biology she got the dole for four months and during this time she did many interviews for science jobs and didnt get offered any work. The dole told her she had to get any job and she did ask them about that suitable job thing they told her at this point because she was able bodied a suitable job was any job she was qaulified for. She worked in a newsagents during college so was qualified for that thats what she went back too.

I am confident that, upon a strict interpretation of the rules, that the Welfare would not be able to sustain such an argument.

c4cat

IT Loser wrote: »

....to some form of benefit or the other???

I am a law graduate, and I am looking for legal related work. I can't find any and I can't get an apprenticeship.

The welfare categorically states that you must be "looking for work" but it also uses the word "suitable", i.e. work which is SUITABLE for YOU, the recipient of the claim.

Surely, at 29 yoa, and trying to forge a decent career, they aren't going to ask me to go back to the pits, or make coffee in O'Briens {Honourable pursuits but hardly progress for me at this stage}

I have been on JS Benefit for a while now and I fear it may be stopped, leaving me in a very bad place indeed, so what are my options?

Will I always get a few bob in some way shape or form?

Or what??

Cheers!

Makes me laugh that a "Law Grad" has to resort to asking such questions on a board like this!!!! since the answer to the question posed is on a matter which is clearly spelt out within legislation of the state. But what would I know since I grad from school at 15yrs old without a leaving cert 35 yrs ago

mikemac

c4cat wrote: »

Makes me laugh that a "Law Grad" has to resort to asking such questions on a board like this!!!! since the answer to the question posed is on a matter which is clearly spelt out within legislation of the state. But what would I know since I grad from school at 15yrs old without a leaving cert 35 yrs ago

That's not very helpful, the OP had a genuine question. You're implying they haven't a clue but if everyone understood our bureaucratic maze of a welfare system we may as well shut down this forum.
What has your lack of a formal education got to do with the OP? Sure most people didn't do complete a leaving cert 35 years ago so you're hardly unique.

Back on topic, OP if you wouldn't mind getting in financial services they're desperate for law grads. Maybe type "compliance" in any of the job sites (www.irishjobs.ie is best imo) and you'll get results.

IT Loser

micmclo wrote: »

That's not very helpful, the OP had a genuine question. You're implying they haven't a clue but if everyone understood our bureaucratic maze of a welfare system we may as well shut down this forum.
What has your lack of a formal education got to do with the OP? Sure most people didn't do complete a leaving cert 35 years ago so you're hardly unique.

Back on topic, OP if you wouldn't mind getting in financial services they're desperate for law grads. Maybe type "compliance" in any of the job sites (www.irishjobs.ie is best imo) and you'll get results.

Thanks for the help and assistance. I always get emails back acknowledging my application and that I will be contacted, if successful.:(

By the way, I have been to the Welfare site www.welfare.ie and I cannot for the life of me understand WHY the amounts quoted for Jobseekers Benefit and Jobseekers allowance are the exact same at €197.80 or thereabouts.

If the money is the same, why have two categories?

I also just got a letter from the welfare today stating that I have used 250 days of my 312 allotted says on the Jobseeekers Allowance claim. It says my claim will "stop soon". I guess they think 2 months is "SOON"....

c4cat

By the way, I have been to the Welfare site www.welfare.ie and I cannot for the life of me understand WHY the amounts quoted for Jobseekers Benefit and Jobseekers allowance are the exact same at €197.80 or thereabouts.

If the money is the same, why have two categories?

Ther is a very Simple reason, Jobseekers Benefit is paid based on ones contributions into the system (any EU dole system, so long as at least 1 days paid work prior to the claim in Ireland has been worked) and is not subject to a means test, whilst the Jobseekers allowance is paid to those who have not paid the req PPS contributions and IS subject to a means test and habitual residence test. That is why we have Jobseekers Benefit and Jobseekers allowence

c4cat

micmclo wrote: »

That's not very helpful, the OP had a genuine question. You're implying they haven't a clue but if everyone understood our bureaucratic maze of a welfare system we may as well shut down this forum.
What has your lack of a formal education got to do with the OP? Sure most people didn't do complete a leaving cert 35 years ago so you're hardly unique.

Back on topic, OP if you wouldn't mind getting in financial services they're desperate for law grads. Maybe type "compliance" in any of the job sites (www.irishjobs.ie is best imo) and you'll get results.

I never implied that every one should understand the system, but i am implying that a LAW GRAD should not have to resort to to asking such questions on these boards since as it makes his degree worth less then the paper its printed on..............................

c4cat

IT Loser wrote: »

Thanks for the help and assistance. I always get emails back acknowledging my application and that I will be contacted, if successful.:(

By the way, I have been to the Welfare site www.welfare.ie and I cannot for the life of me understand WHY the amounts quoted for Jobseekers Benefit and Jobseekers allowance are the exact same at €197.80 or thereabouts.

If the money is the same, why have two categories?

I also just got a letter from the welfare today stating that I have used 250 days of my 312 allotted says on the Jobseeekers Allowance claim. It says my claim will "stop soon". I guess they think 2 months is "SOON"....

If you look at the letter carfully it will say you have have used alloted days on jobseekers BENEFIT not "allowance" so if you are still unemployed after the Jobseekers benefit runs out, you will have to apply for job seekers allowance which is paid subject to a means test and not your contributions

mikemac

c4cat wrote: »

I never implied that every one should understand the system, but i am implying that a LAW GRAD should not have to resort to to asking such questions on these boards since as it makes his degree worth less then the paper its printed on..............................

Getting offtopic here.
I do read this forum a lot and I know you have post a lot of good info.
But considering you never did 3rd level education how do you know a law degree is worthless?
An arts degree however is worthless.....:D

I've done law in college and they don't teach you anything about social welfare from what I remember.
A law degree is far from worthless and the OP can't be expected to know about social welfare is he has never studied it or used it.
Don't assume a law graduate is an expert on this subject

Me thinks you've a chip on your shoulder here. Oh, and no such thing as a stupid question!

IT Loser

micmclo wrote: »

Getting offtopic here.
I do read this forum a lot and I know you have post a lot of good info.
But considering you never did 3rd level education how do you know a law degree is worthless?
An arts degree however is worthless.....:D

I've done law in college and they don't teach you anything about social welfare from what I remember.
A law degree is far from worthless and the OP can't be expected to know about social welfare is he has never studied it or used it.
Don't assume a law graduate is an expert on this subject

Me thinks you've a chip on your shoulder here. Oh, and no such thing as a stupid question!

Thanks for your help. Thanks again!!

c4cat

I have no Idea what a Law degree is worth or any other degree is worth either, but what I do understand is if one has a law degree then one should have a pretty good understanding in the basic workings of the law and how to negotiate it as well. Thats why the average person will need to use the services that any law grads will provide to the public. As such the rules of the benefits system are laid down by statute even the names of the different benefits are decided by statute and a Law Grad chould be able to refer to the statute and understand it with out any problems cos thats what he got his law degree for, ( or did he get for drinking in barcode all those yrs) to at least understand how the law basically works. So what I am say is that someone who has a law degree and comes on this board asking for advice on questions of law based on the statute is demeaning the value of his degree

IT Loser

c4cat wrote: »

I have no Idea what a Law degree is worth or any other degree is worth either, but what I do understand is if one has a law degree then one should have a pretty good understanding in the basic workings of the law and how to negotiate it as well. Thats why the average person will need to use the services that any law grads will provide to the public. As such the rules of the benefits system are laid down by statute even the names of the different benefits are decided by statute and a Law Grad chould be able to refer to the statute and understand it with out any problems cos thats what he got his law degree for, ( or did he get for drinking in barcode all those yrs) to at least understand how the law basically works. So what I am say is that someone who has a law degree and comes on this board asking for advice on questions of law based on the statute is demeaning the value of his degree

Thats great, thanks.!!

IT Loser

c4cat wrote: »

If you look at the letter carfully it will say you have have used alloted days on jobseekers BENEFIT not "allowance" so if you are still unemployed after the Jobseekers benefit runs out, you will have to apply for job seekers allowance which is paid subject to a means test and not your contributions

Okay then, in your experience, what are the factors which will determine whether you do or don't get the ALLOWANCE. You say it is means tested, what would they look at in determining my claim? What counts as "means"??

Thanks.

professore

c4cat wrote: »

Makes me laugh that a "Law Grad" has to resort to asking such questions on a board like this!!!! since the answer to the question posed is on a matter which is clearly spelt out within legislation of the state. But what would I know since I grad from school at 15yrs old without a leaving cert 35 yrs ago

Way to go c4cat ... Kick someone when they are down ....

Mrs. MacGyver

Folks please consider this a warning - check the charter before posting. any more personal abuse will incur a one week ban.

Anyway, means can be from a variety of different things,

If you are fully unemployed and living with a spouse or co-hab partner you are assessed with the means from his/jher income.
If you are single/co-hab/married you can be assessed with means from any savings, capital or investments you may have (the first E20,000 is not counted), you could have a private pension or an SSIA. You could be receiving maintenance from an ex-partner.
If you are under 25 and living at home you could be assessed with the benefit of your parents income.
Each persons circumstances are quite different.

On a personal note: I have a teaching degree myself and people automatically assumed when i graduated i would get a job automitacally but after 85 rejection letters i managed to get a job. A law degree may seem to some to be an instant path way to a job but it isn't. If a person wished to go on to study in blackhall as a solicitor it can be very difficult to seek a 'devilling' position as a trainee solicitor. Just because a person may have a good honours degree it dosen't necessarily mean that a job will open up for you inmmediately.

c4cat

IT Loser wrote: »

Okay then, in your experience, what are the factors which will determine whether you do or don't get the ALLOWANCE. You say it is means tested, what would they look at in determining my claim? What counts as "means"??

Thanks.

If you go to the FOI page on the social welfare site it gives you all the information you need to know on any point of law dealing with social welfare inc refs to the relevant laws governing the benefits

shoegirl

IT Loser wrote: »

I have tried. But.............:(

Anyways, the crux of my question relates to whether the State is obliged to provide for a recipient where the recipient is genuinely looking for work.

Thanks anyways.

;)

No. They can change eligibility at any time they like.
However in most cases they will not cut you off unless they have reason to believe that you are not genuinely looking for work (in the cases I've heard of that would mean that you repeatedly didn't turn up to meetings they had arranged for you etc).

shoegirl

Mrs. MacGyver wrote: »

On a personal note: I have a teaching degree myself and people automatically assumed when i graduated i would get a job automitacally but after 85 rejection letters i managed to get a job. A law degree may seem to some to be an instant path way to a job but it isn't. If a person wished to go on to study in blackhall as a solicitor it can be very difficult to seek a 'devilling' position as a trainee solicitor. Just because a person may have a good honours degree it dosen't necessarily mean that a job will open up for you inmmediately.

Well put. The value of your degree depends on factors other than the obvious. Some people are willing to be very flexible or look at different paths. You have to be willing to start from scratch and not look down on entry level positions, especially those that don't specifically look for a degree (all too often those who get the most out of these are often those who do have appropriate degrees).

It does show how poor career guidance is at 3rd level, however. You are kind of left to your own devices to some extent.

c4cat

shoegirl wrote: »

No. They can change eligibility at any time they like.
However in most cases they will not cut you off unless they have reason to believe that you are not genuinely looking for work (in the cases I've heard of that would mean that you repeatedly didn't turn up to meetings they had arranged for you etc).

Thats not correct, a benefits claim is examined by a decision maker who has to make the right decision based on the law and the circumstances of the claimant, If the circumstances of the claiment change, the the decision maker has to look at the claim again to see if the entitlement is still within the law., If its not, then the decision will be changed/adjusted.

From time to time the Law is changed but that is not done by a decision maker, its done by the government of the day whoes job it is to make the laws

Mrs. MacGyver

Thaks d4 cat, very well put. There is a section in each government Dept that drafts the legislation and it is the Govt that implements it.

IT Loser

Mrs. MacGyver wrote: »

Thaks d4 cat, very well put. There is a section in each government Dept that drafts the legislation and it is the Govt that implements it.

Thats just it. There is a BIG difference between STATUTE and the INTERPRETATION given to that legislation [i.e. the Staute] via the Courts, and other decision-making bodies.

I am looking for interpretation of the law as based on other peoples experiences. Thats not something that any college course can cater for.

Thanks ALL for your help.

Ta-Ra!!

Mrs. MacGyver

IT, if you are not happy with a decisin you can ask for a review or appeal it to the Social Welfare Appeals Office

c4cat

IT Loser wrote: »

Thats just it. There is a BIG difference between STATUTE and the INTERPRETATION given to that legislation [i.e. the Staute] via the Courts, and other decision-making bodies.

I am looking for interpretation of the law as based on other peoples experiences. Thats not something that any college course can cater for.

Thanks ALL for your help.

Ta-Ra!!

So to put it in a nutshell here is an interpretation of the law, welfare is there to help those in genuine need only and if one is claiming Jobseekers benefit or allowance then eventually one must accept work that is available and what one can perform, even if one is over qualified IE eventually one can not refuse work in what is other then their own trade/profession just because they can not find work in their own trade/profession.