Is this pathetic?

LegacyUser

I'm with my GF 3 years now and love her very much. We get on great, have lots of fun together and by all accounts we're perfect for each other....except i never get any. Ever. In 2007 I'd say i had sex 6 times, and that includes 3 holidays!

We're both early 20's living at home and it's always been a "sneaky on the couch late at night" situation which was fine for the first 18 months or so, but then we just stopped. She has never initiated anything since we got together-it's always been me. I tried asking her to initiate things and she said she would, but never did. Then I went through a COMPLETE drought about 8 months ago and I sat her down and we talked. She got really really upset and that was a complete mess. Nothing improved and I had a talk with her again and things went a bit better, but the sex never started again. Sitting her down and talking has never worked with her-it always ends up with me apologising for upsetting her.

There's always been some problem when it comes to sex too. She was a virgin when she met me, which was fine. I never asked for sex and then she told me she was ready after 2 or 3 months and I took it very slowly with her for a couple of months and was very gentle as it hurt like hell for her. She went on the pill as she found condoms hurt way too much and then I was recommended KY jelly which worked wonders for her and raised her comfort a lot. The pill didn't work out so she stopped that and got the implant about a year ago. That was working well, but sex had all but ceased. Anytime I tried to initiate anything she'd pull my hand away/fall asleep/ or just say no.

The bar didn't work out either as it made her retain water so she got that out and I bought those Durex Avanti condoms as they're supposed to feel more natural. To my amazement, they didn't work out either. She said they hurt way too much, but I could tell by her that she was just tensing up and not letting me get near her. We didn't even have sex properly that time and then she got all paranoid that she was up the duff, and last week when I tried to get things going again she just went into her usual paranoid "am I going to get pregnant from this" thing, so i just took off the condom and said to forget about it.

I have been really really patient with her over the past 3 years on this subject. I've tried talking to her. I've tried different approaches, books, reading on the internet, talking to close friends about how to make her more comfortable/improve the experience for her, but no matter what I've tried it's always some excuse. I've brought her to fancy hotels, but she's more interested in the soft bedsheets than having an intimate night with me. I've tried massages, candles, baths, everything! She just doesn't seem interested in sex! I've tried being the loving, caring boyfriend. I've tried to be the not so loving boyfriend. I've tried dirty texts. Nothing ever gets her going. She just doesn't like sex.

There's so many occasions that i've just gone mental wondering why she doesn't seem to want to be intimate with me and it's really driving me mad. I'm not a horny gimp or anything, but this is getting ridiculous now.

I've only ever spoken to one close friend about this and he agrees with me that it's not right. I see it from her point of view-i've been with girls before (only 4), it hurt her at first, she's paid lots of money for the pill/bar etc... and has made the gestures in that regard, opportunities don't arise too often, but when they do, she just makes excuses.

Is this a pathetic way of viewing my situation? I dunno, but please, someone give me another opinion. This is driving me nuts.

Overheal

You know: it is possible that she is somewhat lesbian or something - or simply just un-interested in sex. It sounds uncommon but I've known it to happen. No two people are made the same, anyway.

Also if you've been together for 3 years and she's worried about getting pregnant: what does that say about your relationship? The fact that she's making the gestures with the contraceptives may mean something but the fear of getting pregnant sounds very strong - as if she doesn't want to father yours (or, perhaps anyone's) child.

Also if you're both living at home that sounds like an issue: imagine if you did knock her up - are you both in a stage in your lives and relationship where you can move into your own place and settle down? By your 20's you should be out to college or something, paying your own meager expenses and living in your own space.

Miss Fluff

You poor thing OP, she has deep-rooted, serious issues with sex. Either she tries counselling or I'd give her the elbow to be honest. She owes it to you to give counselling a try imo as it seems you have been more than kind and patient with her.

daiixi

Miss Fluff wrote: »

You poor thing OP, she has deep-rooted, serious issues with sex. Either she tries counselling or I'd give her the elbow to be honest. She owes it to you to give counselling a try imo as it seems you have been more than kind and patient with her.

Or maybe she just isn't interested in sex at all. Which is actually a perfectly healthy way to be. And if she isn't interested at all it would explain why it hurts etc.

LegacyUser

Overheal wrote: »

You know: it is possible that she is somewhat lesbian or something.

Not a chance, seriously. Not a hope in hell.

Overheal wrote: »

Also if you've been together for 3 years and she's worried about getting pregnant: what does that say about your relationship? The fact that she's making the gestures with the contraceptives may mean something but the fear of getting pregnant sounds very strong - as if she doesn't want to father yours (or, perhaps anyone's) child.

I wanna get laid, not have kids. Not for a long time. I'm 22 ffs.

Overheal wrote: »

By your 20's you should be out to college or something, paying your own meager expenses and living in your own space.

That's not the point. Stay on topic. (i've 18months left in college, she's finished in June just so you know)

Miss Fluff: Where does one go for councelling about sex? Seriously, this thought has crossed my mind many many times before. I'd be well up for that. Her on the other hand, well, see my first post. Talking about sex is not her idea of a good time!

Overheal

Isit? wrote: »

I wanna get laid, not have kids. Not for a long time. I'm 22 ffs.

:rolleyes: poetic as the notion may be; she may see it in a similar way - which is shes young and doesnt want kids but is scared out of her wits of that happening

Cathmandooo

God love you, that cant be easy to deal with and you have been very patient with her. Your different methods havent seemed to work because she's way too worked up over sex. Counselling seems a definite way to go. Maybe look up the golden pages for some counsellers in your area?

If that doesnt work and she still wont ease up then you'll have to seriously consider your future with this girl. It's not fair on either of you that one of you wants something so badly and the other doesnt.

Is she at all intimate with you? Does she hold your hand? give you kisses? cuddle up to you? etc.

I don't envy your situation, fair play to you putting up with it so long, i know i couldnt.

eveamp

Now, I obviously dont know her or what is going on for her but some women have a psychological disorder which actually makes it physically difficult for them. That coupled with fear of pregnancy could lead her to act like this regardless of her feelings for you. I know you say its difficult to talk to her but to me it seems like thats what you need to do. If she is embarrassed/afraid etc. she may not want to talk but it seems like something you need to do. Counselling could help...I think a lot of places would deal with this...just check the phonebook.

acorntoast

Isit? wrote: »

Where does one go for councelling about sex? Seriously, this thought has crossed my mind many many times before. I'd be well up for that. Her on the other hand, well, see my first post. Talking about sex is not her idea of a good time!

The British Association for Sexual and Relationship Therapy appears to also be the governing body for Irish Sex Therapists. Go onto the site and look under Ireland.

Counselling only works when the person attending is seriously committed to it. They have to work hard, face up to themselves, go through a lot of pain and generally unless they are extremely motivated to go and have in a sense hit rock bottom and gained clarity about why they have to start making changes, counselling is just window dressing. It's just not a silver bullet or an easy answer that can be foisted on someone.

Ultimately, I think you will waste more of your time and energy trying to encourage her to deal with this. Probably the best encouragement you can provide is breaking up with her. If she promises to go in order to keep the relationship going, just make sure she doesn't feel she has been coerced, because unless she is freely choosing it, it just won't work.

What you have together now is not right for you, and it hasn't been for years. You are not a bad guy if you can't take any more of it. Believe me, you will find yourself in a totally different relationship, probably sooner than you think, with a girl who is totally into you and can't get enough of you. There are plenty of girls out there who love sex. You sound like you have tried everything man. You sound like a great, caring person with loads to give. But you have to know when to stop and let go too.

Faith

isit? wrote: »

She just doesn't like sex.

Well, you obviously understand the problem! What's causing it is the question.

Miss Fluff wrote: »

You poor thing OP, she has deep-rooted, serious issues with sex. Either she tries counselling or I'd give her the elbow to be honest. She owes it to you to give counselling a try imo as it seems you have been more than kind and patient with her.

I completely agree. I'd imagine there's psychological issues at play here. She'll never get over them without help.

daiixi wrote: »

Or maybe she just isn't interested in sex at all. Which is actually a perfectly healthy way to be.

I completely disagree. The basic reason we're here is to procreate. The girl's behaviour isn't "normal" - that is, it's not a behaviour exhibited by a majority of similar women, so I wouldn't really describe it as "perfectly healthy". Certainly some people are asexual, but it's far more likely that she just has some issues with sex.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies. I love this girl a lot. She's very caring and loving. Dare I say it, we'd be perfect for each other. I could stay with her for a long time. But jesus I need a bit of sex.

I don't want to break up with her. I know that'd break her heart, and mine. I'd be in a heap. I don't have a "proper" reason to break up with her. I mean, how ****ing pathetic does it sound: "why'd ya break up with her?"... "because we never had sex"..."that's a bit sad don't ya think? Giving up a great girl for your penis?" These are the thoughts going through my head.

This is destroying me though. On my way home from work earlier I realised I've thought of three things today. This, food and the liverpool match, the first occupying 90% of my thoughts.

I think I'm gonna try to talk to her again. I can't just let this ship sink without fighting for it. Some may say that i've done enough, but have I? If she has issues with this, is it more cowardly for me to run away rather than trying to help? That's the nice side of me talking. The other's saying fúck it. Go for the hot bird in work that's constantly chatting you up. She'd give ya one.

Her friend's having a new year's party tomorrow night. My friend's having one elsewhere. Do I go to her one and try to get something going, or go and enjoy myself???? So many questions.... There's also so many things to this relationship (as with all relationships) that make this whole thing more complicated.

I really don't know what to do. Get drunk for now, that ALWAYS helps......

Oh, and Cathooo-yeah she likes the cuddling, the holding hands. Not too keen on public kisses, but in all other regards, we're the PERFECT couple. Seriously.

kowloon

OP, you have the patience of a saint.
Most would have passed the understanding and caring barrier at 3 months and either dropped her and moved on or strayed the path.

Not normal at all.

Rattlehead_ie

Agree with most of the ppl here. I do feel for you and as kowloon said "patience of a saint", but I'm sure you love her and well fair play sticking by someone you love. I hope things work out.

I think Miss Fluff said counseling? I think thats a very good idea to be honest. There is obviously a psychological reason for this, whether its the fear of being pregnant or something else, I know some people say that some don't just like sex or "uninterested" in it, but sex should always be part of any mature loving relationship I believe, well for most of it anyway . I hate to say this or bring it up, BUT there is no history of abuse or anything else like that in her past? (again point towards counseling).

You have obviously talked to her about it and as I said fair play to you for sticking by her, she is lucky. So I would suggest the counseling see how that goes, she if she is willing to go that far and well best of luck.

aidan24326

Faith wrote: »

I completely disagree. The basic reason we're here is to procreate. The girl's behaviour isn't "normal" - that is, it's not a behaviour exhibited by a majority of similar women, so I wouldn't really describe it as "perfectly healthy". Certainly some people are asexual, but it's far more likely that she just has some issues with sex.

Have to agree Faith.

Having no interest at all in sex is not healthy or normal.

A medical checkup would do no harm, just to eliminate the possibility of her lack of libido being a physical/medical issue. She should really see a doctor, who in turn can refer her for psychological counselling if that's what's needed (a psych issue is more likely I would think). See if someone can reccomend a good GP she could speak with.

OP, as much as you may love her, you know this situation can't go on and if she is unwilling to talk about this or seek professional help your relationship is doomed. She must realise this. You have been patient for long enough in fairness.

seraphimvc

Isit? wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. I love this girl a lot. She's very caring and loving. Dare I say it, we'd be perfect for each other. I could stay with her for a long time. But jesus I need a bit of sex.

I don't want to break up with her. I know that'd break her heart, and mine. I'd be in a heap. I don't have a "proper" reason to break up with her. I mean, how ****ing pathetic does it sound: "why'd ya break up with her?"... "because we never had sex"..."that's a bit sad don't ya think? Giving up a great girl for your penis?" These are the thoughts going through my head.

This is destroying me though. On my way home from work earlier I realised I've thought of three things today. This, food and the liverpool match, the first occupying 90% of my thoughts.

I think I'm gonna try to talk to her again. I can't just let this ship sink without fighting for it. Some may say that i've done enough, but have I? If she has issues with this, is it more cowardly for me to run away rather than trying to help? That's the nice side of me talking. The other's saying fúck it. Go for the hot bird in work that's constantly chatting you up. She'd give ya one.

Her friend's having a new year's party tomorrow night. My friend's having one elsewhere. Do I go to her one and try to get something going, or go and enjoy myself???? So many questions.... There's also so many things to this relationship (as with all relationships) that make this whole thing more complicated.

I really don't know what to do. Get drunk for now, that ALWAYS helps......

Oh, and Cathooo-yeah she likes the cuddling, the holding hands. Not too keen on public kisses, but in all other regards, we're the PERFECT couple. Seriously.

man,i am start liking you:Dthere is one fine man there i see!!but no PM please,seriously*

let many of the posters said,this isn't normal,you are not secondary kids!it is ,however,bare in mind that the thing happens naturally,maybe you are too eager to want it and makes the things harder?and you said 3times in holidays too...sound to me she is the type of really need the right atmosphere right time right place...but still ,that would be not normal in 3yrs time:cool:i say tell her everything,cause' you are bother ,she needs to know that,together,go for some counseling/doctor for a start.

good luck for ya man!:)

McGinty

Hi Op

Sex is not just a base act, it is an act of intimacy, or at least it should be and it is an inherent need in most if not all of us. At present your girlfriend is denying you that intimate act, sex isn't just the wham bam but the whole package, affection being fussed, sharing and connecting, and again this is being denied.

You have two options to continue on with no sex and accept the relationship as it is or you can leave.

What strikes me most is how you are (in a nice way) trying to fix your girlfriend, making everything comfortable, taking responsibility for her comfort and enjoyment. Why is she not doing any of this? Are there not two of you in this? Why is she not showing concern for the lack of sex? She went on contraceptive to avoid pregnancy, but what is striking is how none of them work, and provide a foilproof excuse not to have sex. How humilated did you feel getting a hotel, hoping for intimacy and instead watch her coo about the sheets? Is this really fair on you? To be honest your relationship is not perfect and your girlfriend is not perfect because it doesn't exist, she may have many fine qualities but in this respect she is denying a fundamental aspect of a relationship nor will she even discuss it. Instead she avoids it gets upset so you won't push it. You cannot change your girlfriend on this, only she can. So you can accept a sexless relationship or find it elsewhere. If it were me (and I am a woman) I would leave, I could not accept a sexless relationship. I hope it all works out for you but for now it seems a difficult one.

Moojuice

Lots of foreplay, lots and lots of it. Spend a lot of time on it and it if doesn't go further than that for a while then go with it. Try and make her orgasm through foreplay, be unselfish for a while and don't worry about getting your kicks. Sex is an important part of any healthy relationship so you need to get this sorted out so you will both be happier.

daiixi

Faith wrote: »

I completely disagree. The basic reason we're here is to procreate. The girl's behaviour isn't "normal" - that is, it's not a behaviour exhibited by a majority of similar women, so I wouldn't really describe it as "perfectly healthy". Certainly some people are asexual, but it's far more likely that she just has some issues with sex.

Hang on a second. You don't know this girl. I don't know this girl. I certainly don't take the OP's opinion as gospel because as the old saying goes "there's three sides to every story". There's a decent number of people in the world who don't have sex out of choice. There was even a documentary on the tv the other week about couples who have been happily married for years but have never consumated their marriage. As for us being here to procreate well that's your opinion. I think it's perfectly natural not to want to procreate or do something that you don't want to do. Whether it's eat, drink, run, work, sky dive, swim, have sex etc etc. Each to their own.

What is going on between the OP and his partner only he and his partner can figure out. If his gf won't discuss it and he can't figure out how to get into counselling (come on OP, pick up a phone book or call your doctor for a recommendation) and/or she won't go into counselling then perhaps it's time he decides what is more important to him - his girlfriend or a sex life.

cance

Sorry chap, but you have to give her the elbow.

You have broached the subject a number of times, in a manner that was both adult and respectful. If regular sex is what you want and is not something she is interested in, then its time to split. I've heard of this a few times now to be honest and only 1 in 4 actually got better.

Theres no way to make her want it, so stop teasing yourself and get back out there.

daiixi wrote: »

I think it's perfectly natural not to want to procreate or do something that you don't want to do. Whether it's eat, drink, run, work, sky dive, swim, have sex etc etc. Each to their own.

I agree with faith and call weirdo on that.

Requiem4adream

I was with a girl with a similar issue to the OP's girl, except she told me from the outset that she was seeing a specialist over it. I never quite understood the exact nature of the problem but she said it was partly physical but mainly psychological. The net result anyway was sex was never much of a possibility. I got on great with her, lovely girl but bottom line for me is sex/intimacy is an ingredient in a relationship i need, so i got out of that. It's strange in a way, because i never used to see sex as high on my list of priorities - personality, sense of humour, interests, looks etc were all way above it - but without the intimacy those traits are not enough to sustain the relationship.

OP, i would def have a make-or-break chat to her. Explain that this is a much bigger issue than you have previously let on and if things weren't to change you're not sure if you could stay in the relationship. Ask her would she consider counselling and/or having a chat to her GP about it. Make it an inclusive process, make sure you come across as supportive but also decisive and make it crystal clear this is THE biggest issue for you in the relationship.

Zombrex

isit? wrote: »

She just doesn't seem interested in sex! I've tried being the loving, caring boyfriend. I've tried to be the not so loving boyfriend. I've tried dirty texts. Nothing ever gets her going. She just doesn't like sex.

Your girlfriend probably has anxiety to sex.

This is seemingly very common in Irish women. I found all this out when I went out with a girl who had the same issue.

The problem is that she does not relax during sex which makes it painful. And she also has no sex drive. I could guess why this is so common with Irish women, but each case probably has unique reasons.

Based on my experience of going out with a girl with the same probably your girlfriend probably doesn't even realise that this isn't normal. To her she just doesn't like sex, and this isn't helped by the attitude that if a girl likes sex she is a "slut", it is easier to justify that she is normal with this attitude floating around that people who do like sex are in fact the ones with the problem.

She needs to see a professional councilor.

But more important that she needs to realise that there is a problem. You unfortunately can't make her realise any of these things. Facing what ever is causing the anxiety is going to be difficult for her. My ex found it too difficult, just gave out about the councilor and eventually left the sessions.

I suppose the only thing you can do is explain to her that this is becoming a major issue for you. You need to be brave doing that, not get it flipped back around into your face that you are being a "typical guy" just thinking about sex all the time.

Unfortunately you also need to prepare yourself that this may not ever work out. She may have a relationship with you that, to her at least, just does not include sexual attraction. Even if she deals with her issues towards sex that doesn't mean sexual lust towards you will materialize.

Its a difficult one, and having been there I don't envy you. I wish you the best and I hope it works out.

daiixi

cance wrote: »

I agree with faith and call weirdo on that.

Why? Because it's different? Because it's not how you feel? Because people may not openly admit that they just don't like sex because of reactions like this?

Seriously people are too quick to judge psychological problems when the reason might be so much simpler. Not saying that it is of course but hell. The girl was nervous in the past, it hurt. Perhpas like many women she doesn't orgasm and she's not enjoyed sex so she's become disinterested in having sex in the future. That's not a psychological problem.

Marksie

isit? wrote: »

We're both early 20's living at home and it's always been a "sneaky on the couch late at night" situation which was fine for the first 18 months or so, but then we just stopped. .

I am just wondering if this was the beginnings of it, the rushed quicky always listening for people coming in. Not the ideal situation adn it may have got thewhole thing about sex in her head which she can't get out of.

isit? wrote: »

She got really really upset and that was a complete mess. Nothing improved and I had a talk with her again and things went a bit better, but the sex never started again. Sitting her down and talking has never worked with her-it always ends up with me apologising for upsetting her..

Hmmmmm. It could be a means of getting you to stop talking about it actually.
That type of behaviour is used in many situations to put the person asking the questions on the back foot. In essence to stop them asking the questions and then doidging the issue.
Its obvious then she is aware of something but will not communicate.
May I ask? when you "talk" how do you pose the questions. Is it You make me feel? and why dont you initiate etc? That makes the person defensive.
You will have to talk to her again openly. But one way of approaching this is to say "I "feel and "I" wonder, transfer the questions onto yourself to some extent. In that way you are asking the relevant questions but the emphasis is not on her so she may not take it personally to teh same extent. Givce her tme to talk and listen to what she is saying. Don't interrupt. Done force her to answer but quietly wait for her to reply.

If she gets upset then the way to handle it is not to get upset yourself. Quietly wait and even have a box of tissues handy.
IN tantra its called holding teh space (in a slightly different context..where its allwoing somene to express emotions without getting upset). In conflict management its the same tool, but designed when talking to somene who uses the emotional upset card to realsie they will not be successfull this time. Simply put you hand them the tissue and wait. You may even say, take your time, and talk to me in a bit.
Wjhat you are doing there is letting them realise that they will have to face the issue, you arent caving in.

isit? wrote: »

She went on the pill as she found condoms hurt way too much and then I was recommended KY jelly which worked wonders for her and raised her comfort a lot. The pill didn't work out so she stopped that and got the implant about a year ago. That was working well, but sex had all but ceased. Anytime I tried to initiate anything she'd pull my hand away/fall asleep/ or just say no. .

I agree with McGinty on this, she is finding issues and problems to avoid the situation.
The fact that KY gel "worked wonders". I found interesting. If she was nervous and not ready/dry etc. It may be that her initial experiences have a negative reinforcement.
Tell me does sex= penetration for you?
How was her communication in teh fuirst days and months of you two having sex. YOU may have believed you were gentle..But it may not have been gentle for her and she may have not communicated this.
So the rushed couch nature, the lack of communication/nervousness the dryness/soreness all combine ito put blocks in her head where she turns around and says nope, i will avoid this if i can by any means possible.

By all means ask in your talk with her, was i too rough, did I rush it etc. and be prepared if she does say things that you dont get upset and actually take on board what she will say.

I will say here that I am not saying its your FAULT, but am trying to get you to work on the cause of and then take it from there.

isit? wrote: »

The bar didn't work out either as it made her retain water so she got that out and I bought those Durex Avanti condoms as they're supposed to feel more natural. To my amazement, they didn't work out either. She said they hurt way too much, but I could tell by her that she was just tensing up and not letting me get near her. We didn't even have sex properly that time and then she got all paranoid that she was up the duff, and last week when I tried to get things going again she just went into her usual paranoid "am I going to get pregnant from this" thing, so i just took off the condom and said to forget about it..

Yeah, not surpriseing at all. The am i going to get pregnant is another tool to avoid the situation. and of course unfortunately but understandavbly you reacted by getting frustrated and having a "thats it I am done for now"

isit? wrote: »

I've brought her to fancy hotels, but she's more interested in the soft bedsheets than having an intimate night with me. I've tried massages, candles, baths, everything! She just doesn't seem interested in sex! I've tried being the loving, caring boyfriend. I've tried to be the not so loving boyfriend. I've tried dirty texts. Nothing ever gets her going. She just doesn't like sex..

Nope i think she is scared of sex. There is a major difference.
All the massage, candles etc are missing the point.
She has it in her head that at some point she is fully aware of the fact and to put it simply
"he is going to want to put it IN ME, it will hurt."
She is going in with that expectation and so its all self defeating.

Isit? wrote: »

But jesus I need a bit of sex. .

What about non penetrative sex for both of you? It can be so much more pleasureable than penetrative.

isit? wrote: »

I don't want to break up with her. I know that'd break her heart, and mine. I'd be in a heap. I don't have a "proper" reason to break up with her. I mean, how ****ing pathetic does it sound: "why'd ya break up with her?"... "because we never had sex"..."that's a bit sad don't ya think? Giving up a great girl for your penis?" These are the thoughts going through my head..

OH its a proper reason alright and you should explore every avenue to avopid it. But if you cant it will be the reason you break up. Either directly or obliquely. It will be the cause

isit? wrote: »

Oh, and Cathooo-yeah she likes the cuddling, the holding hands. Not too keen on public kisses, but in all other regards, we're the PERFECT couple. Seriously.

Initmacy issues, possibly. Work on that

Moojuice wrote: »

Lots of foreplay, lots and lots of it. Spend a lot of time on it and it if doesn't go further than that for a while then go with it. Try and make her orgasm through foreplay, be unselfish for a while and don't worry about getting your kicks. Sex is an important part of any healthy relationship so you need to get this sorted out so you will both be happier.

Moojuice has hit on what I belive to be the way to approach this. Dont make foreplay a means to an end. make it the end in itself.

How is she at foreplay? my guess is not much happens there as she doesnt know much.

But communicate. Explain that you are not gomng to eneter her, but juts enjoy each other and then you lift the expectation that penetrative sex is necessary.
Take it from that aspect and slowly work around to it over time.
I dont think you are being selfish, but are looking at sex and intimacy from the concept of penetration.

OK to summarise
Have the talk: and dont let her dodge the issue by getting upset.
Be prepared to listen to what she says and not get upset yourself if she turns around and says well you always hurt me. But also be proactive tell her what YOU are prepared to do

Go back to the candles etc and the non-penetrative techniques and tell her, reassure her.

You have been with her 3 years and so its not something to be thrown away lightly this approach is wiorth the effort if it obtains the aim of you two developing as a sexually aware couple.

If necessary go to counselling together.

Best of luck

Miss Fluff

daiixi wrote: »

There's a decent number of people in the world who don't have sex out of choice. There was even a documentary on the tv the other week about couples who have been happily married for years but have never consumated their marriage.

Fine Daiixi but the issue here is that the OP does not have that choice. He is being forced into a non-physical relationship because of the hangups of his partner. If it had been discussed and was consensual, fine, (do these people KNOW what they are missing?:eek:) but the issue at hand is that the OP is being deprived of something normally inherent in a loving relationship. For that she needs councelling.

daiixi

Miss Fluff wrote: »

Fine Daiixi but the issue here is that the OP does not have that choice. He is being forced into a non-physical relationship because of the hangups of his partner. If it had been discussed and was consensual, fine, (do these people KNOW what they are missing?:eek:) but the issue at hand is that the OP is being deprived of something normally inherent in a loving relationship. For that she needs councelling.

The OP does have a choice. He has been in this mostly sexless relationship for three years. That was and continues to be his choice. Whether or not sex is something normally inherent in a loving relationship it's not something which has been normal in his relationship.

I've not said that she doesn't need counselling I've just suggested that sex may be something she simply doesn't want and/or enjoy. If it is as simple as that then counselling isn't going to make her want or enjoy sex anymore than counselling is going to make someone want to skydive or enjoy skydiving or as simple as me having counselling to make me like the taste of fish or give me the desire to eat fish. I hate fish. Nothing is going to change that. Some people don't like sex. Counselling isn't going to change that.

You may also notice that I've given advice on how to find appropriate counselling.

LegacyUser

Marksie wrote: »

I am just wondering if this was the beginnings of it, the rushed quicky always listening for people coming in. Not the ideal situation adn it may have got thewhole thing about sex in her head which she can't get out of.

You're right there man, we didn't get the best start.

Marksie wrote: »

Hmmmmm. It could be a means of getting you to stop talking about it actually.
That type of behaviour is used in many situations to put the person asking the questions on the back foot. In essence to stop them asking the questions and then doidging the issue.
Its obvious then she is aware of something but will not communicate.
May I ask? when you "talk" how do you pose the questions. Is it You make me feel? and why dont you initiate etc? That makes the person defensive.
You will have to talk to her again openly. But one way of approaching this is to say "I "feel and "I" wonder, transfer the questions onto yourself to some extent. In that way you are asking the relevant questions but the emphasis is not on her so she may not take it personally to teh same extent. Givce her tme to talk and listen to what she is saying. Don't interrupt. Done force her to answer but quietly wait for her to reply.

Again, you're right, the first time I think I did approach her from the wrong direction and she did get quite defensive. The next time I tried the other way, and her response was generally good, but still nothing happened.

Marksie wrote: »

I agree with McGinty on this, she is finding issues and problems to avoid the situation.
The fact that KY gel "worked wonders". I found interesting. If she was nervous and not ready/dry etc. It may be that her initial experiences have a negative reinforcement.
Tell me does sex= penetration for you?
How was her communication in teh fuirst days and months of you two having sex. YOU may have believed you were gentle..But it may not have been gentle for her and she may have not communicated this.
So the rushed couch nature, the lack of communication/nervousness the dryness/soreness all combine ito put blocks in her head where she turns around and says nope, i will avoid this if i can by any means possible.

Absolutely dead right there. I don't deny it. In the earlier days I wasn't nearly as gentle as I am now, but the reason I found out about KY, read up on how to make her more comfortalbe, asked friends etc... is because I knew it was hurting-I wanted to help fix any problems. She refuses to buy KY. It has to be me. She doesn't talk about sex. She doesn't communicate at all about it. Sex doesn't always mean penetration, but yes, I would prefer that most of the time.

Marksie wrote: »

By all means ask in your talk with her, was i too rough, did I rush it etc. and be prepared if she does say things that you dont get upset and actually take on board what she will say.

I've tried this too. She will NEVER EVER tell me if I'm doing anything wrong. It's like she's embarrassed to tell me i've been too rough.

Marksie wrote: »

I will say here that I am not saying its your FAULT, but am trying to get you to work on the cause of and then take it from there.

There's part of me that thinks it is my fault, but then again, i've taken lots of steps to try to make this better. She's done fúck all

Marksie wrote: »

Yeah, not surpriseing at all. The am i going to get pregnant is another tool to avoid the situation. and of course unfortunately but understandavbly you reacted by getting frustrated and having a "thats it I am done for now"

It wasn't the smartest thing i've ever done, but I kind of wanted to let her know I was pissed off. I'd also had a few drinks which probably didn't help.

Marksie wrote: »

She has it in her head that at some point she is fully aware of the fact and to put it simply
"he is going to want to put it IN ME, it will hurt."
She is going in with that expectation and so its all self defeating.

This has been becoming all too clear of late.

Marksie wrote: »

What about non penetrative sex for both of you? It can be so much more pleasureable than penetrative.

She won't let me go down on her, despite me being more than willing. Fair enough. She's very reluctant to go down on me. She will give me hand jobs (sometimes that takes a fair bit of persuading) but as for rubbing/kissing etc.... in foreplay it's all me. She does none of that. She would run her fingers through my hair and that's about it. She doesn't like fingering, but if I rub her clitorus she does like that. That's the ONLY thing i've found that she likes. She gets very wet from it and I've spent ages just working that and getting her going, but if we move on to penetration the well goes dry.

Marksie wrote: »

Moojuice has hit on what I belive to be the way to approach this. Dont make foreplay a means to an end. make it the end in itself.

How is she at foreplay? my guess is not much happens there as she doesnt know much.

as above, she's pretty bad at it. I've asked her to do more but it's like she forgets or something.

Marksie wrote: »

But communicate. Explain that you are not gomng to eneter her, but juts enjoy each other and then you lift the expectation that penetrative sex is necessary.
Take it from that aspect and slowly work around to it over time.
I dont think you are being selfish, but are looking at sex and intimacy from the concept of penetration.

I will try this approach and see how it goes.

Marksie wrote: »

OK to summarise
Have the talk: and dont let her dodge the issue by getting upset.
Be prepared to listen to what she says and not get upset yourself if she turns around and says well you always hurt me. But also be proactive tell her what YOU are prepared to do

Go back to the candles etc and the non-penetrative techniques and tell her, reassure her.

You have been with her 3 years and so its not something to be thrown away lightly this approach is wiorth the effort if it obtains the aim of you two developing as a sexually aware couple.

If necessary go to counselling together.

Best of luck

I think you've given the most helpful advice so far man. Much appreciated.

Thanks to everyone for reading and helping.

Aseth

just a tought: maybe it's hormones that are affecting her sexdrive? Implant is probably hormonal?
I heard that some women after hormones loose interest.

Suaimhneach

OP, it could be a hormone imbalance leading her to have a lower sex drive. Worthwhile getting a test done in the docs, but she might take convincing.

I dont envy your situation, but much respect for being as understanding as you have been.

Einstein

Op i can totally relate to you.

My first 'real' GF was exactly the same. Bar nothing. You actually described what happened us line for line. We were together for nearly 5 years. from 17-22. She too was a virgin, and it was nearly 2 years before she was ready(which was fine with me - I was crazy about her) But she was so overly paranoid, that she ended up being so tense it almost made sex physically impossible. It hurt her so much regardless of what we used, jelly, condom brand etc.

The pill can sometimes affect libido too, depending on what brand is used.

Unfortunately, we're only human. We can be patient for only a certain amount of time. I'm not saying relationships should be based on sex alone, but it's a HUGE part.

It actually became too much for me (among other issues) so I finished it. As the sex life with my next GF developed, I realised that my previous GF must have really had issues that needed to be dealt with regarding sex and the paranoia of getting pregnant.

I hope things work out your way, i really do.

kermitdfrog

Isit? wrote: »

I don't want to break up with her. I know that'd break her heart, and mine. I'd be in a heap. I don't have a "proper" reason to break up with her. I mean, how ****ing pathetic does it sound: "why'd ya break up with her?"... "because we never had sex"..."that's a bit sad don't ya think? Giving up a great girl for your penis?" These are the thoughts going through my head.

I won't add too much here, as there's plenty of very good and very useful advice, but I just wanted to say two things. First of all, in relation to the above, do not think for one second that it is pathetic or sad. Sex and intimacy is a vital and integral part of a relationship, and it is essential that you both are happy with your physical relationship (and yes, having no physical relationship IS valid, as long as this is to the satisfaction of BOTH partners, which is not the case for you). What is happening in your case is a genuine problem, and a valid reason to end the relationship if it cannot be fixed or you are both just incompatible. It is as valid a reason as, say, she wasn't driven/laid back enough, or not full of the joy of lifes or cynical enough, or whatever. You have to accept that you may just be incompatible on this issue.

I will say here that I am not saying its your FAULT, but am trying to get you to work on the cause of and then take it from there.

Secondly, while I agree in principal with this point, and the bulk of that post from Marksie was useful and helpful, I would be wary of pouring too much time and effort into this. Ultimately only you can judge how much she is worth it, but bare in mind that this is her problem, not yours. If you love her and want to make this work (and you clearly do), you can try to help her, do all you can for her. But if she is not willing, (or not able), if you can't help her, and always baring in mind once again how much you already HAVE done, then the time may come to walk away. Only you can be the judge of that, but don't waste more of your youth/energy/time/passion etc on what, at some point, may need to be acknowledged as a lost cause.

dublinlawyer

Does she masterbate. If she doesnt then maybe she doesnt like sex which is a problem. If she does then I would go for the lots of foreplay and dildos etc.
I wouldnt totally rule out the lesbian thing - its worth asking her anyway.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all of your replies and advice.

Well things exploded on Monday night (not in the way I'd like!). She pulled me aside and asked me what was wrong with me of late and we ended up having a fairly long argument/talk. Firstly my stunt with the condom didn't go down too well the other night. She was fairly upset about that, which I knew she would be. She said she felt too pressurized about sex, which I guess is understandable, although I've always tried not to be putting pressure on her but trying to make it better for her. She put across her side about making so many attempts with contraceptives and I have to say she's quite right, she has made a lot of effort in that regard. As for the paranoia with condoms-she apologised for that, but she just doesn't trust them. She got a new contraceptive the other day, it's called "the ring" and she puts it in for 3 weeks of her cycle and then takes it out. Hopefully all will go well with that.

I didn't actually need to tell her I wasn't happy that we never have sex. She said it outright that she knew I was. I didn't deny it and she said that she loved sex with me, but she was worried that she's no good at it and that I was judging her all the time. This part was bull, as I've never done or said anything like that, I've always encouraged her and complimented her, but I let that slide and said I was sorry. I told her that I wanted her to become more active during sex and to initiate things more often. I said I want her to tell me what she likes and what makes her feel good. She apologised for that and said she'd make more effort.

After that we had a great night, although no sex as she was in her period. She should be able to have unprotected sex in a few days when the ring has taken effect. Hopefully this'll be the end of all of this and I can take xtube out of my bookmarks!!!

Dublinlawyer: nope, she doesn't masturbate. Not that I'm aware of anyway. I don't think she'd tell me, but she's not the type to. I've suggested buying her a vibrator before, but she wasn't keen at all on that idea.

Einstein: Glad your new GF worked out. You no doubt understand the way I've been feeling, and I'm glad I'm not the only one. Hopefully after our talk the other night things'll get moving again and I can forget all of this.

cressy

You sound like a really lovely guy. I think the therapy suggestion is probably the best if she is agreeable. And even if she isn't - perhaps it would help you to be able to talk about it with a therapist. I also think you have a very valid concern. You are not a "horny gimp" as you put it. And you are not pathetic.

Son_of_Belial

Whoa... Good Lord, where to start... Relationship Counselling seems like a good idea. Definitely suggest that and explain to her that sex is an important part of any other normal relationship. Tell her how it hurts you and, frankly, makes you feel unloved. She seems willing to try every contraceptive under the sun, so she seems to be willing to play ball. Also is it remotely possible that maybe... well... was she abused when she was younger? I know you said she was a virgin when you first were with her, but is that 'cos she told you so or... are you certain? Hypno-therapy might also be an option. After that, well, you've lasted this long and have been more than patient. Much as you love her and much as you're the PERFECT couple, maybe you should seriously think about moving on. Also, maybe the serious prospect of losing you might snap her out of whatever her mental block is. Either way, good luck!

estar

its very normal, although i hate that word usually, to want to have sex
with your girlfriend. if you are the perfect couple, then you should be
able to express all your needs and desires honestly. have you told her
how much this means to you? you should.