Dishwasher up in smoke

themadchef

dishwasher approx 3.5 yrs old.

Switched on at 10pm, off to bed 11.30, next thing i know smoke alarm going off. I ran out to kitchen, obvious it was the dishwasher and switched it off. Scared, hoping it wouldint go on fire and rang my dad. Who basically said fk all i could do but keep an eye.
Phone calls next day to friendly guy who sold it to me, reported to company, and he also gave me direct number to their services dept.

Basically they told me it would be new year before they get to me, fridges and cookers priority this time of year which i totally understand.
I thought though they would have taken the fact i feel we could all have been killed if it went on fire into consideration (ok it never happened thank god but i sure felt like it would have if i didnt switch it off).

Thing is that service guy came to fix it in the summer as it stopped filling with water, this time it never filled with water but kept heating any way, and i'm wondering is there a connection.
The company said it's unlikely they will replace it.

If i get an independant service guy to look at it ( i'm not sure if i'm going to believe the company service rep as he was the last one to fix it) they refuse to honour the guarantee...which i don't want honoured anyway...would you plug that thing back in in your home?

Im tempted to buy a new one in the sales this week but i thought i'd see what other people would do if they were in my shoes. Would you just let them fix it and pay the service fee? I really don't know what to do.

This happened on thursday the 20th of Dec btw

dudara

I presume that the warranty has expired on the dishwasher?

miju

is it a hotpoint , creda , ariston or indesit dishwasher by any chance?

themadchef

miju wrote: »

is it a hotpoint , creda , ariston or indesit dishwasher by any chance?

no, none of the above, and it has a 5 yr parts warranty. Not sure if i'm allowed mention the manufacturer?

Sonnenblumen

Its probably a German make given the 5 year warranty? But brand not important, and you're covered by warranty also any peripheral damage would also be covered by your household policy??

Dishwasher should be hardwired and not plugged in. Something at fault if element heats but no water supply. Very dangerous.

I wouldn't try and re-use or replace, bets wait for new year. Suppliers are busy this time of year but given the nature of the fault, and being a fire hazard they're being less than responsible in resolving a serious fault.

Good luck.

Sponge Bob

I can see a van load of 'Germans' taking it away for 'tests 'and giving you a brand new one + compo for smoke damage.

contact distributors asap

antoinolachtnai

It's only a parts warranty, which is a mullarkey if you ask me.

Since when are dishwashers supposed to be hard-wired?

Sonnenblumen

^^^Since the time they discovered electricity doesn't mix well with water and all installations were completed by professionals.

miju

i think you'll find it is cookers that are supposed to be hardwired into an isolation switch not dishwashers. IIRC none of dishwashers i used to deal with were hard wired

eamon234

I've sold hundreds of dishwashers and every single one had a standard plug on it - I've never seen a hard wired freestanding dishwasher in my life.

Sonnenblumen

Miju,

Fair enough, but you're talking regs, I'm talking best practice. Hard wiring cookers is compulsory, whereas dishwashers etc not so but better practice and higher standard of finish as well as better safety would require a hard wire finish.

Many sparks (99/100) use the low cost option even if it compromises safety they'd rather save a miserable €.

eamon234

I don't think too many people are going to hire an electrician to install a freestanding electrical applicance unless it's a new build.

10-10-20

Sonnenbloomen - nothing gets 'hardwired' to mains - there is always a fuse and a isolation point.

AnotherHelenD

Was warned by a fireman to never put on a dishwasher when asleep or out of the house.

themadchef

AnotherHelenD wrote: »

Was warned by a fireman to never put on a dishwasher when asleep or out of the house.

When i discussed the situation with the man who sold it to me (he was a service guy before rich multi shop owner) he said rule of thumb is "anything you plug in can go on fire....leave nothing plugged in if possible at night!) lovely, comforting thought.

I certainly won't be putting on dryer, washing machine or dishwasher in the future. Fridge/freezer only, will have to chance it.

Can't wait to get service guy to look at it. But apart from a faint smokey smell, it looks pretty normal inside?? would have expected more obvious melt down. Going to try to find an independant service guy on Wednesday, anyone i've spoken with so far seems a tad reluctant to look at it independantly.

knighted

10-10-20 wrote: »

Sonnenbloomen - nothing gets 'hardwired' to mains - there is always a fuse and a isolation point.

spot on 10 10 20 -Sonnenbloomen might have seen this done with an integrated dishwasher where its becoming common practise in new builds etc -the reasioning behind it is simple -on a freestanding dishwasher if you have a problem you just pull it out and remove plug -on an integrated model its not that easy as its screwed into place in your kitchen so you can disable it at the fuse point (ref 10 10 20) -there are lots of variables i know like where you position your socket -but in general its becoming the norm to wire integrated dishwashers this way

"Since the time they discovered electricity doesn't mix well with water and all installations were completed by professionals."

this always makes me laugh (sorry) but as water and elec dont mix well ,should we have a sparks come in and plug the kettle in for us every time we make a cup of tea -what people forget is that electricity mixes well with nothing ,the engineers who build these appliances in the first place have these things taken into account to make them safer for the end user but nothing is 100%safe and in ireland its always going to be the cheaper option that wins out 90% of the time

to get an appliance installed "correctly" and up to standard it will cost the same as the appliance will cost to purchase in the first place

10-10-20

In relation to the fireman's comment to never put a dishwasher on while asleep, I feel that this was more his personal opinion and not general guidance from the emergency services.
It is correct to assume a level of risk with any electrical device and you have to take the manufacturers assurances of safety at their face value, but I think it is unrealistic to state that devices such as this shouldn't be left on while asleep.

There is a difference between the sensible use of electrical devices and paranoia.
Does this fireman heat water in his tank at night? If the answer is 'yes' - he's being cautious, if 'no' - he's paranoid!

Sonnenblumen

I'm not familiar with freestanding dishwashers, the only ones I've seen are integrated types.

As for saving cost v compromising safety, well I know where most Irish sparks stand. But that's the problem.

Knighthood - do you have any idea how many annual fatalities there are due to electrical appliances in bath/wet rooms?

Do a little research, it might change your sense of humour and probably save someone's life!!

OP - hope you get a speedy resolution to your problem.

Ordo

Can anyone recommend a good integrated dishwasher? i'm getting confused by all the sales talk. was going with a hotpoint but the de detrich one was recommended as "quieter" if you use the room a lot?

miju

I used to work for hotpoint on their helpdesk and have to say that we rarely had helpdesk calls on the hotpoint dishewashers. the creda, indesit and ariston ones were more problamatic

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Knighthood - do you have any idea how many annual fatalities there are due to electrical appliances in bath/wet rooms?

funnily enough I researched this before and couldn't find statistics for home fatalities would appreciate if you could point me to a linky. however, if we are to go on workplace deaths then on average 4.5% (8 people) of annual workplace fatalities are due to electroctuion however the HSA does not say how these electrocutions occured

Sonnenblumen

Ordo wrote: »

Can anyone recommend a good integrated dishwasher? i'm getting confused by all the sales talk. was going with a hotpoint but the de detrich one was recommended as "quieter" if you use the room a lot?

A tough call, but IMO AEG and Neff and at a stretch some Bosch models are reasonably quiet. That said I wouldn't spend much time sitting at/near appliances whilst in operation.

knighted

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Knighthood - do you have any idea how many annual fatalities there are due to electrical appliances in bath/wet rooms?

Do a little research, it might change your sense of humour and probably save someone's life!!

.

didnt mean it to be funny just trying to show comparison with water and electricity used in everyday routines -

i can assure you safety is my number one concern in my business

i would never install an appliance in a bath/wetroom as this is illegal -thats why there are no power outlets in your bathroom -shaver socket and power shower is all thats allowed i think

we could go on about safety all year but electricity once used properly and with all the right back up eg breakers trips and fuses is prob the safest thing we have in our homes

themadchef

i have called 3 independant service men, all refuse to look at it! One guy who had been called a few months ago to repair another appliance in my house basically said (in a very nice way) i had 2 hopes of getting someone independant to look at it.

So i guess i have to get the guy who initially done the repair back in the summer to look at it again through the company who made it.
No word yet from him and tomorrow is the 4th of Jan. Never ever buying one of their appliances again. Also no reply from the mails i sent to England office and their head office. So frustrating with so few options.

themadchef

Freindly service guy arrived yesterday (at last)

Amazingly dishwasher was running. Although obvious that element had serioulsy over heated.

He plugged in some device or other to test how hot it got, and if it was working correctly. So i asked him what he thought happened. To be honest i never really got a direct answer, he said it could have been alot of things. Said the water pressure wasin't strong enough to run it?? and the filter was dirty. Basically he referred to some type of resevoir in the appliance that fills with water, this resovoir then tells the machine that its full with water and ok to heat. Seemingly the resevoir filled but the machine did not, hence the over heat. Really confusing. He said it was running fine but couldint guarantee the same would not happen again.

The company rang the following day to offer me 50% reduction in cost of price of a new one. I said no thanks, i want to get to the bottom of what happened to this one!, I felt they should at least replace it as i see it as a serious safety risk. No way i'm ever switching that thing back on, even the service guy went to the back and unplugged it after telling me it was ok to use??

I have asked them for a copy of the engineers report and i'm getting the council in next week to prepare a report on the water pressure for me. Preseuming that the pressure is ok i will send the report to the company.

So it's fairy soft hands for me in the mean time!

Doctor DooM

themadchef wrote: »

Freindly service guy arrived yesterday (at last)


The company rang the following day to offer me 50% reduction in cost of price of a new one. I said no thanks, i want to get to the bottom of what happened to this one!, I felt they should at least replace it as i see it as a serious safety risk. No way i'm ever switching that thing back on, even the service guy went to the back and unplugged it after telling me it was ok to use??

It repair, replace, refund. Technically as they sent out a repair guy they can wait til the next time it occurs again. Unless there is something specific about kitchen appliances I dont know? Or specifics in the warranty? Or perhaps you could argue that the repair guy didn't seem so sure the fault was fixed?

miju

at 3.5 year old it would have lasted a reasonable time before breaking down therefore they company would be well entitled to repair and leave it at that TBH.

50% off is a good gesture IMO and we used to operate a similiar policy

themadchef

If it was a normal breakdown issue i would be delighted at the 50% offer, it's the whole safety issue i have a problem with. I dont believe it's safe to run, the service guy couldin't assure me that it was safe to run so i'm not willing to risk it.


They just dont know what happened to it, he was guessing (he did not dismantle it), and blaming water pressure. If i can rule out water pressure as the cause then maybe they will take it away or send someone else, it's all the "what if's" if i plug it back in i dont care for. . I really just want to know what actually happened to this one.

Was it silly of me to think with such a safety issue that they would be more concerned?

gerryo

themadchef wrote: »

Was it silly of me to think with such a safety issue that they would be more concerned?

No, they are liable if it is a fire risk,they will play that down, as it's a really big deal.

Having said that, if it's an older (superceeded model) they are probably not too concerned, as there won't be recall notices needed.

Still, it's really bad design to allow something to overheat,should be an alarm if conditions are not correct for normal operation.

This happens all the time, it's part of the reason why there are so many different manufacturers, no one every gets it 100% dead on.

PhilieQuinn

Hi, just wondering if anyone knows a name or number for NEFF dishwasher repairs in Dublin. I can't seem to find one. My flatmate broke the top rotating arm by accident and needs to be fixed. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Sonnenblumen

BSH in Walkinstown are approved NEFF/Bosh repairers.

PhilieQuinn

Thanks a million for that, I'll give them a try