A big 'What If' question for poker players...

meathman 007

I had a conversation with a friend of mine last week that provoked a lot of thought - basically we were discussing when we started playing poker a few years back, we both started playing in college at a home game in Dublin.
The question arose.... if you had a crystal ball on the day you started playing, and got to see exactly how poker would affect your life - both positive and negative over the next number of years - would you take the decision to forget about the game or would you start playing anyway?

I think my thoughts on this topic are swayed a little after a couple of horrific beats ive suffered over the past week or so. However, after thinking back over the last few years or so, i think overall poker has had a negative impact on my life (despite the fact that i have made a considerable amount of money from the game)...... wondering what other peoples thoughts on the subject are?

Chucky the tree

If it's having a negative effect on your life why dont you quit?

ditpoker

ship it!! this kinda keeps coming up between myself and lloyd, albeit a bit more indirectly... i play cos i enjoy the game, when i dont enjoy it, i dont play. if i was a losing player (note the little "if" brag there) i'd still play cos its fun. Technically im a losing cinema go-er, i've never made a profit on a cinema trip, but i still go cos i enjoy it.

ditpoker

ditpoker wrote: »

Technically im a losing cinema go-er, i've never made a profit on a cinema trip, but i still go cos i enjoy it.

Early nomination for "Board's Most Illogical Statement That Still Makes Me Smile: 2008"

It's hardly like with like Jeff.

I see what Meathman means though. If I felt the balance of my life shift to poker and away from friends etc. then I would give it up in a heartbeat. You cannot live the game can you?

cooker3

I regret nothing about it whatsoever. If anything I was to change anything I would have played more when I had the chance

Wreck

cooker3 wrote: »

I regret nothing about it whatsoever. If anything I was to change anything I would have played more when I had the chance

Yeah same for me, would have started earlier and played a hell of a lot more through college etc. Would have made a few other changes as well, like moving to cash games a lot sooner.

phantom_lord

wtf? not playing enough poker is certainly never ever gonna be one of my regrets in my life. u sicko!

mewso

Wish I'd taken it up earlier tbh.

peeko

yeah same as muso

Captain Tom

i had a lot of good times and met some really good people through poker but if i could choose id rather have never started playing. when i started i was exclusively a live player which pretty much killed off my social life for about 6-8 months. my diet was terrible and i was really out of shape too. im also 2 years behind where i should be in college primarily because of poker. most people would probably have better self control than me though.

Rb

musician wrote: »

Wish I'd taken it up earlier tbh.

Likewise.

I'd also have avoided the messing around with tournies/SNGs early on and just started with cash.

eagle eye

If i had a crystal ball, i'd be richer than Bill Gates, and only play high stakes poker for charity.:D

Goodluck2me

Anyone who selects No in this, surely shouldn`t be still playing. I play for the money first now and fun second, recently anyway. I am becoming more cynical though I think.

Glowingmind

If I'd been told 5 years ago that i'd be devoting as much money as i am playing poker, or doing the job i'm currently doing, i'd have laughed.

I'm very happy with how things have turned out.

That said, Superstar DJ and Editor of NME were high on my list of preferred jobs 5 years ago and i'd still probably swap the poker for either.

Requiem4adream

meathman 007 wrote: »

I had a conversation with a friend of mine last week that provoked a lot of thought - basically we were discussing when we started playing poker a few years back, we both started playing in college at a home game in Dublin.
The question arose.... if you had a crystal ball on the day you started playing, and got to see exactly how poker would affect your life - both positive and negative over the next number of years - would you take the decision to forget about the game or would you start playing anyway?

I think my thoughts on this topic are swayed a little after a couple of horrific beats ive suffered over the past week or so. However, after thinking back over the last few years or so, i think overall poker has had a negative impact on my life (despite the fact that i have made a considerable amount of money from the game)...... wondering what other peoples thoughts on the subject are?

I posted something similar a while back and got slaughtered by DeV and anothers basically saying "if you feel that way, quit, and stop moaning/stfu/get help etc".

I know exactly where you're coming from and i have these thoughts sometimes about different things. For example, (being serious here too), i wish that i didnt discover Final Fantasy VII on playstation and Championship Manager on pc back in 5th & 6th year. 2 things i loved doing but if i never discovered them i'd probably have done better in school or applied myself better in early years in college. I could have played them less or stopped completely but i chose not to.

Similarly with snooker, i went from being useless to decent but put in an unbelievable amount of time in doing so, sometimes i look back and think i could have done x, y and z if i wasnt playing so much snooker.

I think the economic phrase is "opportunity cost". Go into a shop with a euro and you want a piece of fruit, you can have 1 apple or 1 orange, you pick the apple. The opportunity cost is not being able to eat the orange. I dont think there's anything wrong with regretting picking the apple, it tasted good and you made your choice, but maybe the orange woulda hit the spot better. Or maybe, just maybe, if you saved that euro, put it back in your pocket, you'd have enjoyed your dinner even more so for not getting a bite to eat on way home.

In poker terms the amount of time, energy, effort, ups n downs (money and otherwise) you put into the game comes at a cost (opportunity cost!) - if that cost was too high you'd have stopped long ago. That shouldnt proclude you from lamenting the other things you could have done if you never discovered poker. It's your right to feel how you want about it, dont let people tell you differently.

opr

This was orginally posted by Captain Tom in the BB thread but i think its more appropriate here Happy new year to you too Jeff


lol just came across this on 2p2. guy is totally insane. someone stake me for HU plz.(for those who dont know AJ is a v well known and recpected cash and tourny player)

"Originally Posted by ActionJeff
PokerPrince, post your picture and the next live tournament you go to and you can look me in the eye and disrespect me and you will see how much of a weakling I am. I look forward to it, so much.

I won't lie and say I have always had great self esteem, but I have gotten past that and all emotional barriers that once held me back from maximizing my potential. I've come to realize that all of those things were a illusion. The truth that I once would try to hide, perhaps in an act of self-preservation, is that I have never had real feelings for myself or the people around me, and recently have stopped caring to mimic such feelings. That may not be entirely true, I love and appreciate my family, even if it is out of habit, and one person who is gone now. What I mean is, I don't care about money or power or material success or sex or relationships or my own well being. I don't lift weights and exercise and take medication and dress nicely and be hygenic and orderly and act presentable and civil because of how other people judge me; I do it to try to keep myself steady and under control and as normal as I can be. I have used these petty conveniences and pleasures to distract myself from the truth. I love suffering, of others or myself, I love the pain of the existential struggle, and I have no illusions, I will very likely one day lose control at the wrong time and have my freedom or even life taken away- but I don't sweat it anymore, I welcome all change. It's one of the main motivating factors behind everything I do. It's the sick rush of the endless fight against the world that keeps the blood pumping in my veins and makes it all worth it. It's the promise of another battle of whatever kind I can get, and occasionally even a victory; the only thing that keeps me going. I know I am a sick, evil creature of meaningless disdain and rage and I've learned to love it and treasure it. It's the only freedom left for me. I don't expect to win, only to fight and fight until I fail and drop and burn out forever from this life, but until then I laugh as I destroy myself with increasing efficiency.

I spit on all of your graves and don't wish for a better world for any of you.

-Jeff"

pok3rplaya

link plz opr?

ianmc38

I really wish i'd started playing poker at a much younger age. I'd be loaded now.

YULETIRED

goodluck2me wrote: »

Anyone who selects No in this, surely shouldn`t be still playing. I play for the money first now and fun second, recently anyway. I am becoming more cynical though I think.

Well Joe, I select NO because...Pros and cons below. , however it doesn't mean I should stop does it?

Pros: Met a lot of interesting people , I made some money, discovered that brilliant book..'trolling for dummies' . learned how to deliver a harangue at the poker table. , I learned a little something about myself..(not all good :-() ) I've also realised that there are MANY, MANY people with more mental issues than me, I did not think this was the case so it's made me happy and less mental and consequently I'm sliding down the top 100 mental people in Ireland Examples of people I now consider ahead of me on the looney list. goodlucktome, Lucky Lloyd, Cardshark, nicnic, Bops, Bobs (both sideshow and Battersby) the Clamper, HJ (I'm glad he took up poker as I suspect he would have gone postal in a real job) Mr Pillowtalker and Gholi (two fruitcases) and there are many others ... Dev is quite a looney also. Anyway, I'm happy to move down that list at last. This is all my opinion of course and it's quite possible that one or maybe even two on this list and perfectly normal people.


Cons: my god it really takes up too much time , met a few tiny minded individuals, it's detrimental to the health, it's made me a liar ( eg I gotta go in and play poker tonight babe, I won a ticket) . the existence of CPT and their skabbyness with Joe punter, It's kind of addictive and that is a worry as I can't handle any more addictions. People misunderstand my genius .

Goodluck2me

YULETIRED wrote: »

Well Joe, I select NO because...Pros and cons below. , however it doesn't mean I should stop does it?

Pros: Met a lot of interesting people , I made some money, discovered that brilliant book..'trolling for dummies' . learned how to deliver a harangue at the poker table. , I learned a little something about myself..(not all good :-() ) I've also realised that there are MANY, MANY people with more mental issues than me, I did not think this was the case so it's made me happy and less mental and consequently I'm sliding down the top 100 mental people in Ireland Examples of people I now consider ahead of me on the looney list. goodlucktome, Lucky Lloyd, Cardshark, nicnic, Bops, Bobs (both sideshow and Battersby) the Clamper, HJ (I'm glad he took up poker as I suspect he would have gone postal in a real job) Mr Pillowtalker and Gholi (two fruitcases) and there are many others ... Dev is quite a looney also. Anyway, I'm happy to move down that list at last. This is all my opinion of course and it's quite possible that one or maybe even two on this list and perfectly normal people.


Cons: my god it really takes up too much time , met a few tiny minded individuals, it's detrimental to the health, it's made me a liar ( eg I gotta go in and play poker tonight babe, I won a ticket) . the existence of CPT and their skabbyness with Joe punter, It's kind of addictive and that is a worry as I can't handle any more addictions. People misunderstand my genius .

if you feel the pros outweigh the cons then why would choose no?

nicnicnic

ianmc38 wrote: »

I really wish i'd started playing poker at a much younger age. I'd be loaded now.

.


yeh I wish I discovered holdem 3 years earlier but I'm still glad I did, god the thought of my daily routine would be if I hadn't found poker makes me squirm

YULETIRED

goodluck2me wrote: »

if you feel the pros outweigh the cons then why would choose no?

I'll keep it simple for you

It's like pringles, why oh why do I buy those things, I open them and I scoff them all , I swear I'll never buy them again but every so often I'm overcome with a pringle craving and I go mad until I've devoured another tube , I wish I never set eyes of those lovely long green tubes of tastiness. (now available in tasty b'bacue)

There is only one pro to pringles -> the tastiness
There are many, many cons -> most of which are health related.

I'll never give them up though...NEVER. I have to go to Tescos now damn you

but the tastiness outweighs everything...

Captain Tom

pok3rplaya wrote: »

link plz opr?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=88703&page=8

dK1NG

Captain Tom wrote: »

i had a lot of good times and met some really good people through poker but if i could choose id rather have never started playing. when i started i was exclusively a live player which pretty much killed off my social life for about 6-8 months. my diet was terrible and i was really out of shape too. im also 2 years behind where i should be in college primarily because of poker. most people would probably have better self control than me though.

I'd be coming from the opposite angle here. I very rarely play live - I had been in the New Vic one time before it closed down, and only went into Fitzpatricks for the first time two wks ago.

When it comes to online, I will not play if there is something else going on. I will not allow playing poker to interfere with college, and if there was a choice of playing a tournament online or going training then poker will lose everytime.

I see poker merely as a hobby. Like R4AD, I stopped playing snooker a few yrs back cos I no longer enjoyed it. I love the game, but once the enjoyment is gone i lost the enthusiasm to practice X amount of hours per week. Poker is the same, if, for example, I'm not going out at the wkend I might play online or then again I might just watch a film and not play.

Poker has been great for me, it has helped pay my insurance etc, travel on holidays that would have taken me ages to save up for, but at the end of the day it will always be a hobby. And one that I will stop as soon as it no longer becomes enjoyable!

bohsman

Not sure, dont really want to think about it, my life would have been completely different but no idea where it would have lead, no regrets I suppose.

DeVore

No regrets at all, I've done a dozen things in the last 3 years that I would probably never have done if I hadn't started playing poker.

Requiem, you have misrepresented me. What I was saying was "if you KNOW poker is bad for you, DONT come on here and whinge about how we shouldnt let you do it." I'm ****in' sick of this world full of people who wont take responsibility for themselves or their kids and want everyone else to change to suit them.

Consider your actions, consider their impact, do it or don't do it, but for God's sake take some control and some responsibility. Don't whinge at me telling me it shouldnt be allowed.

Here endeth the rant.

DeV

RoadSweeper

YULETIRED wrote: »

I'll keep it simple for you

It's like pringles, why oh why do I buy those things, I open them and I scoff them all , I swear I'll never buy them again but every so often I'm overcome with a pringle craving and I go mad until I've devoured another tube , I wish I never set eyes of those lovely long green tubes of tastiness. (now available in tasty b'bacue)

There is only one pro to pringles -> the tastiness
There are many, many cons -> most of which are health related.

I'll never give them up though...NEVER. I have to go to Tescos now damn you

but the tastiness outweighs everything...

The butt of your problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate


This is the sh1t that makes you say, i'll just have 1 more.

YULETIRED

RoadSweeper wrote: »

The butt of your problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate


This is the sh1t that makes you say, i'll just have 1 more.

I feel bad for me right now, definitely need a hug

Requiem4adream

DeVore wrote: »

Requiem, you have misrepresented me. What I was saying was "if you KNOW poker is bad for you, DONT come on here and whinge about how we shouldnt let you do it." I'm ****in' sick of this world full of people who wont take responsibility for themselves or their kids and want everyone else to change to suit them.

Consider your actions, consider their impact, do it or don't do it, but for God's sake take some control and some responsibility. Don't whinge at me telling me it shouldnt be allowed.


DeV

I type more when i'm hungover so this could be a big reply

I disagree on an idealogical level.

Consider a hypothetical -

A man works the 10-hour-night-shift 4 days a week. He doesnt particularly like it but the money is decent and he gets a 3 day weekend to spend with the kids. Finds it harder to sleep in the daytime. He's offered a 9-5 day shift, slightly less money and a 5 day week....

Does a little research into the nightshift....

A 2005 report:

Physiologic studies suggest that a sleep deficit may put the body into a state of high alert, increasing the production of stress hormones and driving up blood pressure, a major risk factor for heart attacks and strokes. Moreover, people who are sleep-deprived have elevated levels of substances in the blood that indicate a heightened state of inflammation in the body, which has also recently emerged as a major risk factor for heart disease, stroke, cancer and diabetes.

"Based on our findings, we believe that if you lose sleep that your body needs, then you produce these inflammatory markers that on a chronic basis can create low-grade inflammation and predispose you to cardiovascular events and a shorter life span," said Alexandros N. Vgontzas of Pennsylvania State University.


So he considers all the pros and cons of nightshift-

better money, less days, less traffic getting to/from work etc

v

Irregular sleeping patterns, lack of a 'daytime', shorter life expectancy.


It's his absolute prerogative to make any decision here; to stay with the night shift, to pick the day shift or leave and get a new job. Whatever. It's his choice. He's got all the information available, weighs it up and makes a decision that's best for him & his family.

We're in agreement so far im sure.

So after considering everything, he stays with the night shift.

Comes home in pissy humour 1 morning, log onto boards.ie and has a bit of a rant wishing he never started doing nights in the 1st place. What he doesnt need is people saying "well if you're not happy about it, take responsibility and do something about it or quit moaning". He's already done something about it and made his choice. If i want to come on here and moan about the weather, what i dont need is people telling me to stfu and move to Mexico if im not happy with the Irish climate.

Moaning about something, after considering everything, isn't showing a lack of control and responsibility. It's basically just being Irish. Nobody whinged about being allowed to do it or not. Initially in my instance i had a moan about the negatives of poker on my life, very similar to my hypothetical night shift worker moaning about his negatives. We both weigh up our pros n cons, make a choice. Simple.

The OP in this thread is considering would his life be better if he never discovered poker, and it's an impossible question to answer. Maybe, maybe not, Who's to know. It's a worthwhile discussion starter that constantly gets derailed. Seems to me the ancient Irish tradition of having a moan is becoming extinct, certainly on here.

Doc Farrell

A very sharp post Requiem! The Defence of the Irish Rant.

I voted no. Over 4 years, until last March, i made about 40 grand. Taking into account the hours I played, it works out at less than minimum wage. In two previous jobs I turned down job promotions because I wanted out of them. As it turns out I would've earned more taking the promotions and caused myself less trouble.

I got very lucky this time last year and got a chance to invest in a business that allows me to make more money than I am capable of winning playing cards. I am also in a relationship that wouldn't survive my previous 30 hours a week poker job.

And now I can play cards once a week for the fun of it, as I hope to do tonight, while the girlfriend is away. I'm sorry that poker turned into a badly payed job with no real prospects instead of a romantic flutter that gave the occassional thrill.

Ironically I'm hoping to play in a few bigger games this year than I could have afforded while I was a semi-pro. If you are an average lowlimit player I can't think of a tougher way to make a few extra euro. If you are a better player than me it might be the easiest lifestyle in the world, but are you? Don't believe the hype.

Now, I'm chewing at the bit to lose a few euro in a juicy cash game, so if you will excuse me.... a bientot.

meathman 007

Some interesting responses, i was expecting a lot of support for taking up poker in the first place.
After a bit of thought on the topic over the past few days, heres are my views on the game....:

Nobody can deny that there is a lot of enjoyment and financial reward to be gained from playing poker. There are endless examples of people earning massive amonts of money from the game in a comparative short space of time. However, imo poker is a very unhealthy game for about 90%+ of the people who take it up and play it regularly - there are numerous factors that contribute to this and i could write a thesis exploring each of them, however for the sake of this argument, i will focus on one main area - Poker encourages an unhealthy lifestyle:

1. Unhealthy sleep paterns
2. Unhealthy eating habits
3. Addiction to gambling
4. Psychological impacts - imo it cant be healthy for a person to go through so many ups and downs during the majority of poker sessions they play
5. Poker can have a negative long term impact on many facets on a persons life, including employment (promotions etc), education, relationships etc etc
6. Lack of exercise
7. Unsociable - online poker
8. Spending money you cant affort to lose (like any other form of gambling)

The above are just some of the impacts of poker on an individuals life. One of the things that shocks me about the game, is that when you hear people like jman on 2+2 talk about his experiences of the game - basically he said that overall he reckons he is an unhappier person since he started playing poker and that he dosnt really enjoy the game that much: to hear such comments from a guy who has made millions over the past couple of years is surprising to say the least. Other notable examples include Taylor Caby who has done very well from the game. Caby openly admits that he dosnt play much poker any more and that he cant see himself playing the game long term.

Despite the above, i think there are about 10% of people who are able to find the right balance. They for whatever reason are able to make large sums of money from the game, but still find time for college, sports, relationships etc etc. I dont think there is a big secret to their success, i just think some people are suited to the lifestyle involved with being a poker player.

This post is going to sound like a big rant against poker players, however that is not my intention. I have had many enjoyable moments over the last couple of years playing poker and i have met a lot of great people during that time. I also think forums like boards.ie are great way to develop a community of people who have a common interest in the game. In addition, i have been able to use poker as a decent secondary source of income, making an extra 10 grand or so a year cant be a bad thing...

From a personal perspective, i have never been able to get my head around arguably the most fundamental element of the game of poker - i.e there is a large amount of luck involved and any player can win on any given day. I still get frustrated when i have a losing session if i have played my best and have got unlucky - obviously that is the wrong attitute to take. I think my attitude towards the game and lack of tilt control means i would never consider playing poker full time, which is fine by me. I will probobly still play the game in 2008, hopefully with a few more live tournaments and cash games as apposed to primarily online play in 2007.

My conclusion is that, poker is a game that roughly 5-10% can master and make a great deal of money from. A lot of factors contribute to this including bankroll management, emotional control and the ability to lead a relatively normal life outside of the game - if you are one of those people, then enjoy it while it lasts!

Rant over!