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Need some male input on this one!
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27-12-2007 5:19pm#1
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It means that he at least sees you as a friend.adviceplease wrote: »Or does the fact that we just talked mean he just sees me as a friend??
So your worse case scenario is that you ask out someone who just sees you as a friend.
If this happens daemons will not suddenly burst up through a burning sea of sulphur and grab you off to eternal torment. The polar ice-caps will not melt any faster. Ireland will not play any worse at rugby. It won't even increase your chances of getting a bad pint in a pub. All that will happen is that someone who just thinks of you as a friend will either continue to think of you as a friend, or possibly continue to think you as a friend for a bit but then realise that he's thinking of you as a friend rather a lot and realise that he actually has a bit of a crush that could very well be worth exploring.
In the meantime the better scenarios are much more along the lines of what you are hoping they would be.
So, it's not win-lose, it's win-draw - and with the draw giving you a chance to pull ahead on penalties.
Hmm. Two sports references in the same post - that's not like me at all
. Anyway, what have you got to lose? 0 -
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Wow a big debate over something that should be pretty simple in my opinion after what the two of you did the other night.
Just ask him out for a drink, keep it casual but send out the vibe that you wanna be more than friends, he seems like a really nice guy so best of luck, you've nothing to lose!
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Well, that question can be answered by looking at the possibilities a bit like we would in game-theory:
Remember that the default position between any two people is that they aren't dating, so really that's a draw rather than a loss.
His position|She asks him out|She doesn't ask him out
Not interested|No date - Draw|No date - Draw
Intereted but views women as desperate if they ask men out|Not dating asshole - Win|Dating asshole - Major Lose
Not interested and also views women as desperate if they ask men out|Not dating asshole - Win (possibility of also discovering that he is such an asshole, which one is better off knowing than not knowing - Major Win)|Not dating asshole - Win
Interested enough to ask her out, just hasn't happend yet|Date - Win|Date - Win
Interested by shy|Date - Win|No date - Draw
Interested but convinced she isn't interested|Date - Win|No date - Draw
In every case the possible outcome is she asks him out is at least as good as that if she doesn't, and possibly much better.
Therefore she should ask him out.
You've watched A Beautiful Mind too much.
I'm torn, because Talliesin's methodology is superior to dublindudes, but dublindudes final conclusion is more to my liking (minus the stuff about women acting desperate)!
And I don't think that She Asks Him Out - Not Interested is a draw, because there's rejection and potential awkwardness to consider in that scenario. Which is definitely not the status quo.
People are assuming as if the act of chatting til all hours with the OP and texting her the next day is surefire proof that she's in like flynn, and while I accept that the signs are good, we shouldn't advise the OP to proceed under the assumption he fancies her, which is the general consensus of this thread.0 -
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adviceplease wrote: »I don't want to embarrass myself and overanalyse it
You won't embarrass yourself. And it's getting overanalysed here for you 0 -
Actually, that scene completely misrepresented Nash's theory - Once they've all paired off with one of the women they found less attractive there's nothing to stop any one of them from trying to "upgrade" to the one they all found most attractive by including her in conversation while continuing to chat to the woman they had paired off with and then making a move if chances seemed good while keeping the other woman as a consolation prize. Hence it returns to the competitive Adamsian scenario originally envisioned.newestUser wrote: »You've watched A Beautiful Mind too much.
My approach also differs morally since the criteria for a win is one where both people are happy, rather than a predatorial approach to getting laid like in that film.
It further differs because I consider longer-term aspects, which is why I consider the scenario in which she does ask him out, but he's the sort of loser who views women as being desperate if they ask men out, as a lose rather than a win.
Dublindude's approach is predicated on that point of finding such women desperate though. Mine is in part predicated on the view that dating a man who holds such views is a losing scenario.newestUser wrote: »I'm torn, because Talliesin's methodology is superior to dublindudes, but dublindudes final conclusion is more to my liking (minus the stuff about women acting desperate)!
That you should consider it a draw I've already argued above. Really, being rejected when you ask someone out is so far from the end of the world as to be not worth worrying about. It's a draw.newestUser wrote: »And I don't think that She Asks Him Out - Not Interested is a draw, because there's rejection and potential awkwardness to consider in that scenario. Which is definitely not the status quo.
I'd be far from saying it's any sort of proof. It's sufficient proof that he likes her enough that if he did reject an advance it wouldn't be in a particularly harsh manner.newestUser wrote: »People are assuming as if the act of chatting til all hours with the OP and texting her the next day is surefire proof that she's in like flynn, and while I accept that the signs are good, we shouldn't advise the OP to proceed under the assumption he fancies her, which is the general consensus of this thread.
Quite a few people take it as a positive thing to be asked out, even if we turn the person down. Personally I normally see it as a good thing to learn someone finds me attractive, especially if it was someone I liked enough to have such a long chat with as this man did with the OP.
The alternative approach, and the one I would actually go on rather than what I posted above - but I would have done so before I'd even had time to start a PI thread like the OP is as follows:
Sod thinking about it too much, what do you really have to lose? Faint heart ne'er won fair maid (or young buck, in this case), just bloody well go for it.0 -
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Wow thanks for all the replies and advice, yet again the boards are proving a massive help! This has turned into a huge debate; it's very interesting how differently people think about the whole woman-asking-man-out situation! I think I'll take the advice given by the majority here and just bide my time, see how it goes when we go back to work next week and hopefully it'll develop into something more!! I have to say, I wish I could take the feminist stance and say 'Of course a woman can ask a man out!' but I'm far too scared of rejection! Better waiting to see if he shows any definite interest I think! Thanks again for all the replies! 0
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Your saying that if the op was a guy you would be telling him the exact opposite.......to avoid the whole friendship thing but at the same thing your encourging her to get friendly with the guy!?
So is that not slightly contradictory? Like if the girl was to do that and get involved in a friendship would that not put the guy off?
I would be giving different advice because it is normal for men to ask women out.Your also saying that one day either one of them will eventually be stressed out from work and ask the other one for lunch or for a drink......what if it turns out the lady is stressed?
That means that she would be the one asking him out in anyway in the end!!:D
Yes, it's an informal excuse to go out for drinks. That's the kind of thing I think she should be doing.
I'll give one other reason behind my thinking, and then I'll bow out of this one
Humans value things which they have to fight for, or which cost something. Men are generally brought up to believe (via experience, the media, etc.) that you have to "win" women. They don't come for free.
The OP's man will no doubt have experienced this and will be programmed somewhat to think this way.
I just think the OP might devalue herself by deviating from normal behaviour... She should not appear to come for free.
(For the record, I don't think women are desperate if they ask guys out - I'm just saying it can appear that way.)0 -
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People are generally brought up to believe - via the universe's general lack of free lunches - that you have to "win" everything. Luck gives you some breaks and takes some away and it's what you do that swings the balance.dublindude wrote: »Men are generally brought up to believe (via experience, the media, etc.) that you have to "win" women. They don't come for free.
This means that just because a woman asks you out doesn't mean you should respond by doing nothing to impress her and, should things go that far, be a good boyfriend.
It also means the OP should just ask the guy out.
Indeed, hopefully she's not even seeing this thread because while we're tossing around what is ultimately pretty simple, she's just gone for a drink with him 0 -
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