Photography Qualification Question

dirtydress

Quick question for those who are in the business. I was considering going back to college to do a full time degree but I dont think i will be able to afford it now so i was looking at some smaller courses. Is there a particular qualification that would be regarded as "better" than others? For example I've seen courses like this: http://www.nmtc.ie/courses/bwphotography.html which awards a city and guilds certificate? Or is there another I should look out for? I dont want to spend the money and realise that my "qualification" isnt worth much!!

I appreciate any help!

isadub

You should probably think about narrowing down your question. What type of photography do you want to do to earn money? I'm open to correction but...

A photojournalist, for example, will probably be freelance, hired on a NUJ dayrate and be told to stand outside Building X all day to get a photo of person Y. You'll only have 10 seconds to get the shot. Miss it and you've failed.

There also seems to be a profession called 'fine art nude photography', 90% of seems to be photos of naked women. (Cough, Cough) but would you know what to do with a naked woman for 3 hours?

And there's a thousand variations in between.

Most restaurants fail within a year because they're run by people who love food. They're not run by business-people. I'd imagine it's the same in photography. Can you sell yourself? The only advantage photography school could give you, imo, is 10 mates in the business and a few contacts/scraps from your lecturers/college assignments.

King Kelly

isadub wrote: »

........ but would you know what to do with a naked woman for 3 hours?

I suppose if all else failed you could take a few pictures......it just seems such a waste......

dirtydress

Ok im pretty confused about your response isadub.

In terms of other qualifications I'll compare it to getting a cert from a small college out in galway as compared to getting an internationally recognised qualification (...from the same college out in galway!!) My only experience is with words like 'degree' and 'university'... I already have a basic degree. I want to do photography, most likely portrait or fashion work, i also have a design background in publishing so I may eventually combine the two into a career. I feel a course (short or evening) would be a big benefit to me personally so that's why I'm asking this and dont want to waste my money on something that won't be recognised or of any value. Basically I want to get quality for my money. If anyone is in the business or who has done a course and knows any more than me on the subject, id really appreciate hearing from you!

Calina

Okay, I'm confused.

Why do you want the qualification? Is it to

1. improve your knowledge of photographic techniques
2. have a paper qualification with which to impress people?

For the most part, if you're interested in specific photography styles, are you producing - now - work in that genre? Building a portfolio?

Not everyone in the business has done a formal documented course. Not everyone with a paper qualification is necessarily a great photographer.

So the question really is - what do you want from the course?

dirtydress

Im not asking about whether i should take a course or not, ive already considered that myself... im asking if there is a qualification that is universally recognised or what would be considered a good course to take. Doesnt seem like any of you have actually done a course?

Calina

I am not offering advice on whether you should take a course. I am merely pointing out that it is worth matching your requirement from said course with what is on offer from the course. Right now I get the impression that the content is not important to you at all, that you are looking for CV dressing.

For the record, the only course in photography which I have done is a digital imaging course. I am not a full time photographer but I had photographs published in two major travel magazines and four newspapers during the past six months so make of that what you will. Other people have different experiences - I know at least one person is going through NCAD, for example, but ultimately, what matters to most people here are the photographs which are being produced, not the paper background of the photographers.

People here have all sorts of different experience. The more information you give them, the better they are able to answer your question. You seem to be looking for us to identify the right course for you based on no information on what you want from it apart from it being "recognised". Lots of courses are recognised. Yes there are degree and postgrad conversion courses, and there are local diploma courses.

Based on what you have said, some kind of C&G qualification is probably suitable however the good lord only knows which one is suitable because you don't appear to understand what I am asking you to clarify.


City and Guilds qualifications.

The Open University also used to have some interesting modules but I cannot at this point in time find them on the open.ac.uk site.

Paulw

dirtydress wrote: »

im asking if there is a qualification that is universally recognised or what would be considered a good course to take. Doesnt seem like any of you have actually done a course?

Recognised by who? By other photographers? By Joe Punter who needs a photographer for a wedding or portrait shoot? By newspapers for photojournalists? By press agencies?

To be honest, I don't know many photographers (professional or not) who have formal qualifications in photography. You can't exactly teach someone how to make a great photo. You can teach them how to compose an image, or how to configure a camera, but that won't always make a good image. Just my opinion.

There are plenty of useful courses out there (Digital Beginners run such) where you will certainly learn a lot, but no formal qualification at the end.

dirtydress

Like I said, im interested in photography, I want to do a course because im interested and will use it as a hobby anyway and secondly because of my background in design I may wish to combine the two in the future..in that instance having a recognised qualification of sorts would be an advantage to the employer so I was just inquiring as to whether anyone knew anything on the subject.
My question is about courses and qualifications and i dont really appreciate my passion for the subject being questioned simply because i am asking a question about it, though I am aware that many photographers like to think of themselves as 'artists' and it as being something that can't be learned. Learning to compose, use light etc are the componants which make up a good photograph so personally I do feel that there is something to be said for it.
I'm not made of money, if i spend the money i want it to benefit as much as i can from it which is why im asking. If someone wants to close this topic then go ahead, i think this hasnt been taken up well.

isadub

I want to do photography, most likely portrait or fashion work, i also have a design background in publishing so I may eventually combine the two into a career.

Okay, you've narrowed it down. Have a look at these two, esp Vincent O'Byrne (for the photog+design aspect)...Vincent O'Byrne & MissLilli (esp the 'about me' page). I'm not saying it's a good thing or bad thing but neither mention qualifications.

Calina

You are extremely defensive and that is a pity. You have also missed the key question I asked - what do you want from the course? I still do not know. I asked this the first time I posted. It's like when people ask "what lens should I buy" and I have to say "no idea. What photographs do you want to take?"

I don't care what photographs you take. It really doesn't make that much difference to me. You say you're interested in photography, fine. We really don't have an issue with that. I didn't even ask you what camera you used.

I did, however, ask you what you wanted from the course. You have basically said you want CV dressing. Now I could if you really wanted me to, go through a bundle of the C&G courses I posted, or any other courses that had caught your eye and say this is good or that is good or you don't need this if - and only if - I knew what content you wanted. All I am getting from you is something to impress employers.

I can't speak for anyone else but frankly, that's not a good place to start. We spend a lot of time here responding to people's questions about cameras, about courses, about books and by and large, when someone asks us a question that we can't answer because they haven't told us enough, most people come back and give us a bit more useful guidelines. You are not doing that and it is a pity because if you did give us a little more, you might find this a lot more rewarding. It might also turn into a discussion which would benefit more than you; this is often the case in here. There are - for example - quite a few sports photographers here, and quite a few guys in the business. They have some clue of what they are doing. Quite a few people have done loads of different types of photography courses but they are not answering because they have no idea really what you're looking for.

In short, this is what I want to know:

are you looking for photography techniques
business practice in the media
photography for specific purposes
processing skills such as Photoshop and the Corel one whose name I keep forgetting
how to manage your photography portfolio, how to create it?

The recognised qualification is no advantage to your employer if you are not benefiting from it. From what I can see, you want to have it to sell yourself. Which is fine. But there is no one size fits all, and ultimately the vast majority of outfits who are interested in a supply of photographs will probably spend a bit more time considering the photographs rather than the diplomas. This is true - incidentally - for the agencies I am pitching to.

No one here questioned your interest or passion for photography. I certainly did not. I just asked what you wanted to get out of the course you are looking to do. You are not able to give me a straight answer so unfortunately I cannot help you in this. However if you really think a paper qualification is required and you want it to be internationally recognised you will wind up having to spend money and possibly the C&G are the bare minimum you should be looking at. As to which one *shrugs*. No idea. Sorry.

isadub

Like I said, im interested in photography, I want to do a course because im interested and will use it as a hobby anyway and secondly because of my background in design I may wish to combine the two in the future..in that instance having a recognised qualification of sorts would be an advantage to the employer so I was just inquiring as to whether anyone knew anything on the subject.

You jumped in the deep end by asking your open-ended question but don't give up on boards.ie/photography just yet! It sounds like you're a design guy with photog skills rather than a photog guy with design skills. Maybe you should tailor your CV that way?? A newspaper/magazine may prefer someone with indesign/Quark skills + photog ability instead of the opposite?

dirtydress

isadub wrote: »

You jumped in the deep end by asking your open-ended question but don't give up on boards.ie/photography just yet! It sounds like you're a design guy with photog skills rather than a photog guy with design skills. Maybe you should tailor your CV that way?? A newspaper/magazine may prefer someone with indesign/Quark skills + photog ability instead of the opposite?

That's kinda what i'm going for I'm just not completely sure what I want my end career to be so im trying to gain skills in various areas and learn as much as I can and hopefully find my niche.

As for what I want from a course, well I have very basic skills, I have a canon 400d and I can use it fine but I suppose I want to learn about other aspects of photography like composing pictures properly, using light creatively etc...basically learn as much as I can. I dont want a beginners course. The course I really want to do it the 3 year BA in Photography from Griffith but unfortunately i dont have the money for it.

isadub

This is going to sound like a put-down but it's not meant to be. In an earlier post, you asked about a potential course in Galway but your profile says you're a student in Dublin. Regardless, get your primary academic qualification, get involved with your student newspaper &/or student politics (design + photos) , and try to shoot street photos (to get experience of those priceless 'f**k you' moments).

In the meantime, post your photos here and thephotorooms for constructive criticism.

dirtydress

OK I said Galway as a random example. I also mentioned that I have a degree, im not a student and I have already worked a year as design editor for a college newspaper where we were nationally recognised. Argh anyway, I will continue to look, im sure i'll find a course that suits what I need, thanks for the advice.

isadub

im not a student and I have already worked a year as design editor for a college newspaper where we were nationally recognised.

Your boards.ie profile is your boards.ie profile. Anyway, I selectively quoted your reply. Goto everyone you know (and don't know). Repeat that quote...and 'gissa job'. Again, I'm not being dismissive but that's how it works until you're famous and they start calling you...

dirtydress

Wow you really are being dismissive and incredibly rude, id hate to come on here with a real problem. I said that because I dont think anyone here took my question seriously! If you read my posts you would know i finished college, I dont live on here so I havent changed my profile...its changed now so you can rest easy. Please can some mod just close this topic.

ThOnda

Enjoying a little insomnia now, I am going to type few words.
There is no need to stress anybody. You have asked question, but I had understood something completely different than you explained later. I know, it could be caused by my knowledge of English language, however... :-)

Being on boards.ie few months, I have realised that there are really people spending their precious free time by answering questions. And I am more than thankful for that. However having some experience from technical and management fields, it is essential to formulate question clearly, to get the best answer as possible.

As I have followed this thread, you are not looking for a course only to enrich your CV, but to get more technical skills about both photography and processing pictures, to move from "amateur" level of photography a little higher, step by step up to (maybe) professional photographer. And you added that Dublin area or Galway region would be suitable for you.
There is nothing wrong with that question. I was recently thinking about very similar question. And I think it is very good question, because a lot of people might feel some need to improve their photography - e.g. just to get a little more confidence or to save their time. At least I do think so, because I don't know anything and I'll be in big troubles sooner or later.

Please, don't understand above posted responses as rude or personally aimed against you. If you help us to understand your question, the easier help will be provided in our posts. Well, not in my posts :-)

However, it is just my opinion, neither official statement nor legal advice.

elven

dirtydress wrote: »

i dont really appreciate my passion for the subject being questioned simply because i am asking a question about it

I didn't see anyone questioning your passion, and there's quite a tone in there that belies the time and effort people have been putting in to try and help you figure out what to do. Maybe you should have been a bit less defensive and tried to explain what you're looking for instead, and it would have been much more helpful to you. As it is I think there has been some helpful advice given in this thread, and there's huffing and puffing over nothing going on here.