Traveller Culture

dave878

As one of probably everybody in irish society today, i was a regular visitor to the shopping malls and town centres this christmas.

now i'm no prude by any means.

but as a father of children, i was AGAIN this year sickened to see pre-teen traveller children dressed as though they were street-walkers.

we have all heard the distasteful jokes of child molestation within the travelling community

*edited out*

but it beggars belief that the fathers of these girls will let them out dressed this way.

a wayward "buffer"* council estate teenager will go out covered up, and change in a public toilet.

but these travellers are in a shopping mall with maybe 200 of their peers, young and old, spending money i have no doubt, but the lack of concern these families have for their female members defies belief.

a quick look at the pavee point website will show you how out of touch they are. and that their website only serves to promote their own ends and act as a pressure group rather than to educate the settled community who may in turn welcome a minority who are anxious to integrate.

http://www.paveepoint.ie/progs_violence.html

the previous page preaches a point, but fails to explain the psyche behind the violence. is it low IQ or misoginysm?

i am concerned that these 13 year olds who dress the VERY SAME AS PROSTITUTES are being made to perform the same role behind closed doors.



* Buffer : Traveller slang for a non-traveller.

PDN

Actually travellers have a much stricter moral code, when it comes to sexuality, than do most of the settled community. It is still considered rare and disgraceful for a traveller girl not to be a virgin on her wedding day.

From what I see on the streets the fashion of early teens, and even pre-teens, dressing like prostitutes is certainly not confined to the traveller community.

dave878

PDN wrote: »

From what I see on the streets the fashion of early teens, and even pre-teens, dressing like prostitutes is certainly not confined to the traveller community.

but it appears to be accepted within the travelling community
no father would let his 12 year old daughter wear a micro-mini skirt
tops revealing cleavage, gold glittery knee-high boots, plastered in make-up.

but as stated in my previous post, these young traveller girls are in the company of middle aged parents, uncles/aunts/extended family, and the dress code seems to be accepted.
The strict moral codeyou refer to does not appear to be in effect.

maybe this type of promiscous behaviour is encouraged by the parents so the girl can find a suitor quicker and the serious business of training the sons in the ways of the traveller can take priority.

dubtom

I fail to see how the way a person dresses is an issue of culture, be it traveller or otherwise. If your talking about dressing provocatively, take a walk to donnybrook on a friday night to the teen disco in the rugby ground. There you will see the children of the 'higher society' or the D4 crowd, take your pick, in various states of what could only be called undressed. Granted I have seen traveller girls around the town, some I'd question their taste in fashion, but assuming that they dress in a micro mini for the reasons that you state is basically bigoted, it's like saying that any girl who dress like that is a slut and they are dressing to attract. It could be the case that the parents of these children don't see dressing in that way offensive, or that they don't associate mini skirts and such as sexually provocative, if that's the case, who has the problem, you or them. Was it the fact that you were actually turned on by these girls, you assume because they wear a mini or make up that they are promiscuous. You should take a long hard look at yourself before you judge a girls innocence and her parents motives. You obviously seem have a deep problem with travellers in general and are basically a racist, so please don't try and veil a racist attack on travellers as concern for 'wayward' children and what could happen to them, it's just not nice.

Mick86

Young girls from any community have a habit of dressing inappropriately because they can't wait to grow up and all the rest of it. The onus is on adults not to regard the girls as sexual objects.

Notably the young traveller girls you are complaining about were supervised by adults unlike many young girls that I have seen who are not travellers.

The whole point of paveepoint is not to educate anybody but defend what they see as their way of life.

What's this got to do with history by the way.

dave878

dubtom wrote: »

take a walk to donnybrook on a friday night to the teen disco in the rugby ground. There you will see the children of the 'higher society' or the D4 crowd, take your pick, in various states of what could only be called undressed.

yes i agree, but these youngsters are most likely changing after they leave home and making themselves more presentable before they return home.

the traveller youngsters are allowed to dress like promiscous adults

is this decent?

i say its not

dubtom wrote: »

Was it the fact that you were actually turned on by these girls, you assume because they wear a mini or make up that they are promiscuous..........You obviously seem have a deep problem with travellers in general and are basically a racist.

ok so now i'm a paedophile and a racist
really intelligent !!!!!

dave878

micmclo wrote: »

You can't be racist against travellers.
They're the same race as most Irish people.
Seriously, the term racist is thrown about too much.
The same way you may dislike Polish people but if they are white and European than "racist" has no relevance at all!

yeah i know what you mean
i don't normally use the word.
it has been hijacked by the PC crowd.

and as it happens, i like all races.

Polish in particular.

WindSock

Maybe they are being 'flaunted' at an early age to attract interest from suitable Males or something?

Brian Capture

Do homosexual travellers exist and if so, are they accepted by the wider travelling community?

I'd say they would experience prejudice.

dave878

WindSock wrote: »

Maybe they are being 'flaunted' at an early age to attract interest from suitable Males or something?

This is a theory i mentioned earlier and i believe it is tantamount to abuse
it is also reminicent of arranged marriages which i believe takes the power
to chose, away from the female, and this ethos will persist throughout the
females life, and in turn pass through the generations.

Well this is 21st century Ireland and i do not accept that women should be
dominated, and i believe that children must not be exploited.

there seems to be no accountability within the travelling community.
It seems that the want to govern themselves completely and do whatever they please.

TheBigLebowski

dave878 wrote: »

i am concerned that these 13 year olds who dress the VERY SAME AS PROSTITUTES are being made to perform the same role behind closed doors.

These are the same things a lot of muslim countries would say about all western women. Why should you set the standard for any Irish women?

brianthebard

Over reaction ++ by the OP I think.

MarkR

Women here wear shorts, uncover their arms etc. That would be considered grounds for a stoning in other countries. They're not breaking the law, let them have their fun watching Joe Normal's eyes pop.

Karlusss

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

These are the same things a lot of muslim countries would say about all western women. Why should you set the standard for any Irish women?

This is an excellent point.

What settled Irish people fail to appreciate is that the Travellers have a separate culture to ours. It's not the same as wanting Polish people or Chinese people to integrate culturally, because the Travelling people developed their culture in Ireland over the past few hundred years. They are as Irish as we are and we have no place imposing our values on them. No more than they should be able to impose theirs on us.

Mick86

brianthebard wrote: »

Over reaction ++ by the OP I think.

I get the impression he just wants a stick to beat the travellers with.

marco murphy

dubtom wrote: »

I fail to see how the way a person dresses is an issue of culture, be it traveller or otherwise. If your talking about dressing provocatively, take a walk to donnybrook on a friday night to the teen disco in the rugby ground. There you will see the children of the 'higher society' or the D4 crowd, take your pick, in various states of what could only be called undressed. Granted I have seen traveller girls around the town, some I'd question their taste in fashion, but assuming that they dress in a micro mini for the reasons that you state is basically bigoted, it's like saying that any girl who dress like that is a slut and they are dressing to attract. It could be the case that the parents of these children don't see dressing in that way offensive, or that they don't associate mini skirts and such as sexually provocative, if that's the case, who has the problem, you or them. Was it the fact that you were actually turned on by these girls, you assume because they wear a mini or make up that they are promiscuous. You should take a long hard look at yourself before you judge a girls innocence and her parents motives. You obviously seem have a deep problem with travellers in general and are basically a racist, so please don't try and veil a racist attack on travellers as concern for 'wayward' children and what could happen to them, it's just not nice.

Thats pretty much my opinion.
One kid hardly speaks for a whole group.
As this poster said, take a walk anywhere, you'll see the same carryon.

Mrs. MacGyver

I agree Poblachtacht, it occurs amonsts a lot of pre teens (like in the housing estate at home). My aunt and her family are menbers of the travelling community and they have very hight regard for themselves. The way that isolated group in the shopping center dressed isnot typical of all travellers (the ones at home and in the next town tend to live in hoodies, traccie bottoms and fake uggs). Fashion i think amongst the youth has to do with the early sexualisation of young people e.g through the influences of TV, media etx, its a sociological phenomenon (i came across it in college when training to be a teacher).

brianthebard

Mick86 wrote: »

I get the impression he just wants a stick to beat the travellers with.

Was thinking the same, in this instance "I'm not a prude but" replaces "I'm not racist BUT".

Fratton Fred

Bah, I was only commenting to my wife the other day. Dalkey seems to be full of Women in their forties, accompanied by their 13 year old daughters both of whom are dressing like 19 year old californian slappers (For want of a better expression:o). There are no fake Uggs in Dalkey though

Some women, young and old, think this is a good look.

dave878

ok, the general consensus is unanimously against me
so i must be a prude really ........or a racist (oh the shame)

but honestly, i respect your opinions
thanks for commenting


BTW ......... whats a fake ugg ?

Mrs. MacGyver

Uggs are sheep skin boots that are fur lined and are beige or brown in colour and originate in Australia (they are a fashion statement in South Dublin). Fake uggs are made of synthetic material as opposed to sheepskin.

dave878

Mrs. MacGyver wrote: »

Uggs are sheep skin boots that are fur lined and are beige or brown in colour and originate in Australia (they are a fashion statement in South Dublin). Fake uggs are made of synthetic material as opposed to sheepskin.

ok, i know the ones you mean

i think they look well but the wife thinks they look ridiculous but are probably very comfortable.

but i have never seen travellers wearing them, fake or otherwise.

Maybe they should wear them as i would imagine it would be quite
cold in a caravan this time of year.

and while they are at it, i would suggest heavy tracksuit bottoms and a hoodie or anything a bit less revealing.

Happy New Year everybody !!!