mma and street/tma and sport

SorGan

if you were forced to adapt your training toward a more street like defence what changes if any would you make, if any.
asking mma chaps as well as the non combat based tma,s






"edit"

Nothingcompares

I currently train MMA/TMA/Self defence and sport. I don't train specifically for multiple attackers or people attacking me with knifes. If I felt it was worth while training for these 2 scenarios I'd just spar and drill these scenarios. simple as.

cowzerp

The question should be, what is better, an mma fighter who tests his abilities against a resisting skillfull opponent who wants to hurt them or sd trainee's who drill against non resisting friends?

something tells me a highly skilled fighter (sport) would make mush of non trained lads in a street situation-like putting a total beginner in the ring, quick finish. 2-3 beginners, 2-3 quick finishes!

tma or sd guys wont know if they can use there skills unless there unfortunate enough to get jumped on, then it could be too late.

arybvtcw0eolkf

cowzerp wrote: »

The question should be, what is better, an mma fighter who tests his abilities against a resisting skillfull opponent who wants to hurt them or sd trainee's who drill against non resisting friends?

Thats what I thought was going to be the question.

I read the OP's Q, then typed a long reply then realised I don't full understand what the OP wants to hear!.

Nothing, not a thing, would force me to switch from Judo to any kind of reality based S.D. training. Not a thing.

Scramble

If someone is serious about dedicating themselves to training with RBSD in mind, then presumably it would be a matter of narrowing down their focus to cover the things that are most likely to pose a real threat to them?

We've have threads in the past mention the dangers of heart disease and whatnot as being the big killers that will get a lot of us, so let's assume for the moment that anyone serious about training for self-defence is already in the process of getting fit and watching their diet. Er... I'm sure that's the case... right?

The next thing to be addressed would logically have to be the time most of us are the most vulnerable to accident or injury: When we are driving.

If I were seriously telling myself I was training for RBSD then I think I would set my sights on getting an advanced driving licence and improving my ability to handle the unexpected on the roads. Probably do things like practice hitting a skid pan at speed and keeping control of my car etc. And I'd wear my seatbelt. Always.

The other thing I'd look into would be first aid and emergency medicine. From a common sense point of view this would seem to be the best way to address a lot of different possibilties. If I'm mainly interested in self defence then it would seem to me that if a basic first aid course would be useful then logically you should keep studying as far as possible.

Bit mundane, maybe, in comparison to what seems to be the areas of interest for most RBSD groups I've looked at on the web- I see a lot of mention of multiple person attacks, edged weapons defence, syringe robbery scenarios, firearms defenses and so on.

So why do most RBSD groups choose to spend their time the way they do? I think it's probably got more to do with what's actually fun to do as opposed to productive, and about providing an escape from the mundane rather than genuinely addressing what poses the greatest dangers to the public. It's a fun hobby, and I think the veneer of grim seriousness which is applied to it has the double effect of making it easier to sell, and also making people feel less like Walter Mittys.

Happy xmas all- I'm already overdoing the mince pies.

Boru.

Interesting points Scramble, and I agree with most of them. In fact, under the RBSD system I teach and train in, as I have mentioned on other thread's, less time is spent on the combat (less than 5% of confrontation) and more time spent on the soft skills that keep you safe (95% of confrontation, eg spotting it and defusing the situation before it escalates).

However there is one point I'd like to clarify, that of narrowing the focus. All too often the downfall of many RBSD claiming systems is that they prepare you for "specific" attacks - ie knife fight etc. If that is the primary focus then it's about as realistically helpful as a tma/mma/golf, etc. The goal from my perspective is to teach and ingrain principals that cover any eventuality and dictate the appropriate response. (For example rather than just teach set blocks and counters to a physical attack like TMA/MMA teach facts that can be applied to any physical confrontation, such as there are only 10 angle of attacks, 4 angles of defense etc. Master underlying and common principals as oipposed to inapplicable specifics. Of course there is no harm in showing how a general principal can be applied to a specific instance.

I also agree that knowledge of 1st aid, and many other skills are usedul if not necessary for those training in self defence specifically. I myself am a fitness instructor and personal trainer (a fit healthy appearence is more off putting in victim selection that someone weak/unfit/elderly/overweight...and the ability to run away really really fast is very useful obviously), and a trained medical professional. Part of the our program of course is back first aid, triage etc.

As regards Sorgans original question it seems to me to be the same as asking if you were to start playing tennis, what baseball skills would help you? MMA training is specific for MMA, TMA to TMA etc and RBSD specific to RBSD. Different training, different goals, different methodolgy.

With that said there is useful crossover, but not as much as there is bad habits. While I love Shotokan Karate, my first style, it took me years to unlearn the bad habits of TMA, thought the physical dexterity, etc was helpful.

Clive

The fundamentals of learning a language are the same, whether you want to have a chat in slang with friends or conduct a business discussion.

The strictness of the grammatical rules and the vocabulary required will change, but ultimately the process of learning will be the same.

dlofnep

Clive wrote: »

The fundamentals of learning a language are the same, whether you want to have a chat in slang with friends or conduct a business discussion.

The strictness of the grammatical rules and the vocabulary required will change, but ultimately the process of learning will be the same.

Peculiar analogy.

Baggio...

Scramble wrote: »

if I were seriously telling myself I was training for RBSD then I think I would set my sights on getting an advanced driving licence and improving my ability to handle the unexpected on the roads. Probably do things like practice hitting a skid pan at speed and keeping control of my car etc. And I'd wear my seatbelt. Always.

These are things that everyone should be doing - It's just common sense. Looking after yourself properly is a gimmie. The physical stuff is just the icing on the cake.

Although, I couldn't be arsed getting an advanced driving license to be honest.

SorGan

sorry for the confusion, i was slightly tipsy while posting the original question..:)

fiannoglach

Hi, This question seems to come up a lot - Which is better, What should I be doing? What system works?
But people need to realise that there is no perfect system, no one "art" that is so all encompassing. As long as people use common sense and train in some system that teaches the basics in a realistic fashion, the majority of us will be okay. Knowledge is power.

"So why do most RBSD groups choose to spend their time the way they do? I think it's probably got more to do with what's actually fun to do as opposed to productive, and about providing an escape from the mundane rather than genuinely addressing what poses the greatest dangers to the public. It's a fun hobby, and I think the veneer of grim seriousness which is applied to it has the double effect of making it easier to sell, and also making people feel less like Walter Mittys."

Its also got a lot to do with money. Its fashionable to train in Reality Based Self Defence, the very latest Special Forces Killer Techniques or whatever. Its a cycle - in the 50's judo, 60's70's Karate, 80's Kung Fu. Now its something else.

The only real advances have been made in the way we train - using resisting opponents, stress, fatigue. knowledge of how the body reacts to confrontation etc.

Boru, don't know about those percentages, there's only one way to become proficient at combat.......

Colm_OReilly

'There's nothing as rare as common sense." - Oscar Wilde

filament

i wouldn't change a thing

the best way to defend against multiple attackers or a weapon is to run away

in a case where you can't because you have to defend someone? take the ass kicking and let them get away

FiannaGym.com

Id play more rugby

Peace

Stokes, you're always welcome coming to training if you ever have that SD urge. Stick you in the center to do some slamming

3KINGS

There are some people who train in so called traditional arts,who do sport wrestling or play games such as Kabaddi...that in days of old where just military games because the games kept you sharp for the real thing.Combat sports are an important part of the traditional martial artist,always have been.Why there was a split ? who knows,I have my own ideas.
Look at one of the best examples,the Buddhest arts of Thailand Krabbi Krabong,Lerd Rit and Muay Thai...........I know there are other names,just usen these as examples.
Muay Thai is for sport a military game,to keep you sharp,fit and healthy in peace times.(The same goes for wrestling ) there are three and five man krabbi krabong drills,to help and prepare you for War but thats something only experience can help with.
As RBSD systems normaly are taught by x-army who teach from there experinces in combat,same as these old soliders right up to secound world war in S.E Asia who have past on there experinces of fighting in War to my teachers.
Who is right,I dont care care.......... you need sport but you need to keep you mind sharp by training with weapons too.To many tma say they cant do sport because they focus only on weapons and multiple attacks but really cant handel an one on one,none resisiting.....combat sports athelte on the other hand training to much on the sports side can train your body wrong in responces to weaponed or multiple attack.
Thats why I train both,always have and always will..........that was the true and living traditional way back in the day..........
Peace J

ryoishin

MMA has fighting as its buiness and the training will make you tough.

Tma have other various things to teach through the medium of combat movements. But if you have an instructor who can teach you to defend your self with resisting opponents and teaching proper mental stratagey for not becoming a victum then you could have enough to survive.

It comes down to the individual you can get tough from both tma and mma but i think mma pushes you there quicker and i would say safer. RBSD also mixes well when you get that tough mental attitude. I think mma just has more atheletes who have the mental hunger to win which you need in a self defence suitation (if it comes to blows).

or you could just train like this guy

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=YyW3AnxYCe4

FiannaGym.com

Thanks for the offer Colum but I'd like to be a Kakkoii fighter so I'll pass hahaha

Peace