Pistol applications in Kilkenny

Seamus357

Hi Guys,
I am finally going to bite the bullet; I’m planning on applying for a pistol permit in January. I live in south Kilkenny, do any of you have any experience with superintendent Aidan Roche in Thomastown? What’s he like on handguns? Should I apply as normal or arrange to meet him first?
I am applying for a 9mm Glock 17.

Thanks,

Seamus

clivej

Hi Seamus357,
I know Aidan personally for many, many years and always found him to be up front and good to deal with. But I havean't any idea about his opinion on guns. Ring up the station and get a meeting with him.
My problem is I'm trying to get a .223 permit but I'm in the Kilkenny City area and was told I have NO change of getting a .223 permit from the super there. If only I lived in the Thomastown area.

Our man in Havana

I would certainly sit down and talk with the super before you invest time and money in a pistol application.

bunny shooter

Bond-007 wrote: »

I would certainly sit down and talk with the super before you invest time and money in a pistol application.

From my experiences a good idea

fishdog

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond-007
I would certainly sit down and talk with the super before you invest time and money in a pistol application.

From my experiences a good idea

I agree, great idea. But some supers will just refuse to meet you.

rrpc

Have you ever had a firearms cert before? If you haven't, with no history you probably will be facing an uphill struggle. Even the most receptive Supers will be reluctant to grant a 9mm pistol licence to someone who has never been involved in shooting.

On the other hand if you have, then the best of luck and definitely ask for an appointment with the Super. He's going to have to sign it, so he'll need to meet you at some stage.

fishdog

so he'll need to meet you at some stage.

Why??
There are alot of people out there with a pistol licence that have never met their super. I also know some people that the super refued to meet to discuss the reasons for not issuing a licence.

bunny shooter

fishdog wrote: »

Why??

You'd have to ask the supers in question

fishdog

You'd have to ask the supers in question

Ask them what??

If you are saying that everyone that has a pistol licence has met their super you are incorrect.

bunny shooter

fishdog wrote: »

Ask them what??

If you are saying that everyone that has a pistol licence has met their super you are incorrect.

You asked why ?? You'd have to aske the supers why they do or don't want to meet applicants. How can someone here answer the question for them ?

fishdog

You asked why ?? You'd have to aske the supers why they do or don't want to meet applicants. How can someone here answer the question for them ?

Sorry for the confusion.

I ment "why" to rrpc when he said

so he'll need to meet you at some stage.

As in why will the super need to meet a person that is applying for a pistol licence? They generally dont feel the need to meet the person applying, although I know it is not unheard of.

bunny shooter

fishdog wrote: »

Sorry for the confusion.

I ment "why" to rrpc when he said



As in why will the super need to meet a person that is applying for a pistol licence? They generally dont feel the need to meet the person applying, although I know it is not unheard of.

I had to meet a Super for my first pistol application. I had to meet a different Super for my last rifle application. I had no problem with it. As far as I am concerned I have no problem whatsoever meeting them.

clivej

Seamus357 wrote: »

Hi Guys,
I am finally going to bite the bullet; I’m planning on applying for a pistol permit in January. I live in south Kilkenny, do any of you have any experience with superintendent Aidan Roche in Thomastown? What’s he like on handguns? Should I apply as normal or arrange to meet him first?
I am applying for a 9mm Glock 17.

Thanks,

Seamus

Bad news for you Seamus357
I was just talking to Aidan here in Kilkenny City and he has told me that he will NOT issue a permit for a 9mm pistol this comes from Dublin and from next year no more permits for 9mm handguns will be issued. The reason is that 9mm handguns are not made for target shooting but for killing people and as such are used by law enforcement for this job.

rrpc

fishdog wrote: »

Sorry for the confusion.

As in why will the super need to meet a person that is applying for a pistol licence? They generally dont feel the need to meet the person applying, although I know it is not unheard of.

First of all the Super has to sign your first licence. Generally speaking they like to meet the applicant before they do that. They don't have to, but a great deal of them do.

Secondly, unless you're well known to your local Gardai, they should meet you in order to satisfy themselves that you comply with the conditions in section 4(2) of the firearms act.

bunny shooter

clivej wrote: »

Bad news for you Seamus357
I was just talking to Aidan here in Kilkenny City and he has told me that he will NOT issue a permit for a 9mm pistol this comes from Dublin and from next year no more permits for 9mm handguns will be issued. The reason is that 9mm handguns are not made for target shooting but for killing people and as such are used by law enforcement for this job.

223 & 308 will go down as military issue and therefore will be BANNED too. So much for Consultative Panel. Participants take note. Looks like a talking shop and a case of smoke and mirrors to distract us. Looks like decisions are already made. I reckon 22lr only which will appease our olympic shooters, who are the only shooters that seem to count :mad:

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

223 & 308 will go down as military issue and therefore will be BANNED too. So much for Consultative Panel. Participants take note. Looks like a talking shop and a case of smoke and mirrors to distract us. Looks like decisions are already made. I reckon 22lr only which will appease our olympic shooters, who are the only shooters that seem to count :mad:

Relax Bunny

This is not the law. This is a few Supers making up their own minds as to what the law entails. There are ongoing court cases overturning these decisions and a recent landmark decision which allows district court decisions to be appealed to the circuit court where the law is enforced as opposed to somebody's opinion.

There is nothing in the law as it currently stands that says you can't have any or all of the above.

If in doubt, you can now download the entire firearms acts in one doc on the Firearms Acts thread.

bunny shooter

rrpc wrote: »

Relax Bunny

This is not the law. This is a few Supers making up their own minds as to what the law entails. There are ongoing court cases overturning these decisions and a recent landmark decision which allows district court decisions to be appealed to the circuit court where the law is enforced as opposed to somebodies opinion.

There is nothing in the law as it currently stands that says you can't have any or all of the above.

If in doubt, you can now download the entire firearms acts in one doc on the Firearms Acts thread.

I have said this from the start. They are going to put it into law ! As they have in UK & Australia etc. People there said it couldn't be done and it was ! Why do people here think the government won't ban what they want ? The media has been drip feeding joe public for months about firearms Joe public will be delighted to see pistols etc banned and we shooters will be waiting to see that the FCP is sorting. I tell you smoke and mirrors

dos29

as a matter of interest, what happens to all the 223 and 308 users if these "military calibres" are banned? ive just got my 1st rifle in 223!!!:eek: will i be stuck with a very decorative wall hanging?!
and could someone explain to me please why the powers that be fear these calibres so much? its not like they're being used with automatic weapons and from what i know, ya cant use 5.56 or 7.62 in rifles chambered for 223 and 308?

bunny shooter

dos29 wrote: »

as a matter of interest, what happens to all the 223 and 308 users if these "military calibres" are banned? ive just got my 1st rifle in 223!!!:eek: will i be stuck with a very decorative wall hanging?!
and could someone explain to me please why the powers that be fear these calibres so much? its not like they're being used with automatic weapons and from what i know, ya cant use 5.56 or 7.62 in rifles chambered for 223 and 308?

There is a clause in the new act that allows DOJ to 'purchase' the firearms from you in the event that you are no longer able to licence them.

Actually you can fire 5.56 from a rifle chambered in 223 and you can fire 7.62 from a rifle chambered in 308.

They fear them cause if the army have them they must be more dangerous than other calibres, criminals could use legally bought/stolen ammo in illegally held firearms ? All they say is military calibre, no other reason given ?

Our man in Havana

There is a clause in the new act that allows DOJ to 'purchase' the firearms from you in the event that you are no longer able to licence them.

I assume this will be some nominal amount say 1 euro.

rrpc

Bunny you're a real 'glass half full' kinda guy aren't you?

There is nothing about BANNING in any of the firearms acts to date, but even if there isn't you'll probably intimate that a new and even worse act will come along to satisfy your morose viewpoint.

All you're doing is raising unnecessary hysteria which has no basis in fact. As somebody who has recently been through the acts with a fine tooth comb I see no evidence to support your paranoia. In fact I can see that if you can show good reason, you could get a licence for a .600 nitro express if that's what floats your boat.

The very worst that can happen (under the current legislation) is that some firearms will be restricted. 'Good reason' under the acts will get you a restricted firearm. The current actions of some Superintendents have nothing to do with the law and the remedy is there for anyone who wants to avail themselves of it, and some (like dromey) have already done so.

Bottom line; Running around, tearing your hair out, screaming 'the end is nigh' will most likely be self fulfilling. Remedy; take deep breaths and fight illegality wherever you see it.

That's my $.02 worth.

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

There is a clause in the new act that allows DOJ to 'purchase' the firearms from you in the event that you are no longer able to licence them.

That's been in the act since 1964!

the Superintendent may cause the firearm and ammunition (if any) to be sold and shall, as soon as may be, cause the proceeds of the sale to be paid to the person

bunny shooter

There is nothing currently in legislation to restrict calibres or certain firearms, however they are being refused.

There is enough in the amendments to do what they need.

It's their interpretation that counts, not ours.

Restricted will mean banned, however you dress it up.

You're reference to firearms being sold. Sold to whom. If it's restricted/banned who can buy it ? And at what price ?

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

There is nothing currently in legislation to restrict calibres or certain firearms, however they are being refused.

Yes, and that's illegal for which there is a remedy in the act and which has been commenced.

There is enough in the amendments to do what they need.

Not currently commenced and therefore not legal.

It's their interpretation that counts, not ours.

It's the law that counts not somebody's wish list.

Restricted will mean banned, however you dress it up.

No it doesn't. read the act, I have.

You're reference to firearms being sold. Sold to whom. If it's restricted/banned who can buy it ? And at what price ?

They can be sold to a dealer or outside the state. Northern Ireland would suffice for most firearms.

bunny shooter

rrpc wrote: »

Yes, and that's illegal for which there is a remedy in the act and which has been commenced.

Not currently commenced and therefore not legal.

It's the law that counts not somebody's wish list.

No it doesn't. read the act, I have.

They can be sold to a dealer or outside the state. Northern Ireland would suffice for most firearms.

After all thats happened with firearms licencing you still want to believe they will treat us fairly. Smokers said they couldn't ban smoking in pubs, there were discussions with minister and low and behold they banned it !

The law will be passed but it is not worth the paper its written on until a judge, of whatever court you go to, has given his/her interprepation of it in a judgement as in the Flood case, it's all about precedent.

And the gardai will test the new law to get a judgement, but will it be in our favour when we read the posts on this forum ?

The ordinary man/woman in the street is petrified of guns due to misrepresentation in the media and they will welcome any ban/restrictions and we will be in a minority. When the time comes I will say "I told ye so !"

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

After all thats happened with firearms licencing you still want to believe they will treat us fairly. Smokers said they couldn't ban smoking in pubs, there were discussions with minister and low and behold they banned it !

The law will be passed but it is not worth the paper its written on until a judge, of whatever court you go to, has given his/her interprepation of it in a judgement as in the Flood case, it's all about precedent.

And the gardai will test the new law to get a judgement, but will it be in our favour when we read the posts on this forum ?

The ordinary man/woman in the street is petrified of guns due to misrepresentation in the media and they will welcome any ban/restrictions and we will be in a minority. When the time comes I will say "I told ye so !"

In that case bunny, why don't you sell all your firearms now and be done with it?

bunny shooter

rrpc wrote: »

In that case bunny, why don't you sell all your firearms now and be done with it?

Only one that may cause a problem is my 40 S&W pistol. Got rid of a 223 already. Passed security check on house so should be OK, and I say should be. The Gardai would love me/us to sell all our beloved firearms alright.

I love shooting and couldn't imagine life without it. I've invested a lot of money, time and effort to acquire what I have and would hate to see any of them taken from me. But, I feel there are bad times ahead.

hopefully, I'm wrong. I'd love to be told I was wrong.

Re-loading is all I wish for at this stage. Hopefully .................

rrpc

Well, all I can say is that I continue to have a positive outlook on the future. You must remember that where the courts are concerned, the law is the final arbiter, not the view of Joe Bloggs or the Meeja.

I realise that district courts are not the best places to find law, but certainly above that level, the law has won out. All the refusals so far have been unlawful.

Those are the facts.

fishdog

Bunny Shooter:

I had to meet a Super for my first pistol application. I had to meet a different Super for my last rifle application.

Fair enough, some people do. I was simply pointing out that this is not always the case. I do know that it sometimes is.

Bunny Shooter:

I had no problem with it. As far as I am concerned I have no problem whatsoever meeting them.

I never suggested that I had a problem with it.


rrpc:

First of all the Super has to sign your first licence. Generally speaking they like to meet the applicant before they do that. They don't have to, but a great deal of them do.

I know that some do, my only point was not all do. Of all the pistol licence owners I know only one or two have met the super for that purpose. I was simply responding to your earlier remark that implied that you had to meet your super to get a pistol licence.

rrpc:

so he'll need to meet you at some stage.

rrpc

Secondly, unless you're well known to your local Gardai, they should meet you in order to satisfy themselves that you comply with the conditions in section 4(2) of the firearms act.

I agree with you, but in the real world this is not always the case.

clivej:

Bad news for you Seamus357
I was just talking to Aidan here in Kilkenny City and he has told me that he will NOT issue a permit for a 9mm pistol this comes from Dublin and from next year no more permits for 9mm handguns will be issued. The reason is that 9mm handguns are not made for target shooting but for killing people and as such are used by law enforcement for this job.

This is just sh!te!

Slug chucker

Does everybody feel that they'll cap the licensing of "banned" calibres if there becomes such a thing or will they try to retrieve them from their owners.
I got a 9mm & a .223, both are worth a fair bit more than their shop price tag due to the work done on them and the accessories purchased.

rrpc

I wish people would stop using the word 'banned'. It's misleading. The word is 'restricted' and the definition is in the act. What's also in the act is how you licence a restricted firearm and there are two requirements:

(i) has a good and sufficient reason for requiring such a firearm, and

(ii) has demonstrated that the firearm is the only type of weapon that is appropriate for the purpose for which it is required.

In the case of a 9mm pistol, it might be difficult to prove (ii) above, but if it's for centrefire pistol competition the firearm might as well be a 9mm as a .32, .38, .40 or even a .45.

In other words proving sufficient reason would be wanting to take part in centrefire competitions. Can't do that with a .22.

There are a few court cases coming up that will test this (dromey's amongst tham) so we should wait and see the outcome before jumping to conclusions. I know a few people who have been told that they will get licences for 9mm's because they have given good reason (as in (i) above), so anyone saying there's a blanket ban is talking sh1te, as fishdog put it.

The mst important thing as far as we the shooters are concerned is that there is consistency applied across the board and across the country. In other words we should know what's required to get a licence and should be confident of getting one if we meet those requirements.

fishdog

+1 rrpc.

Slug chucker

rrpc wrote: »

In the case of a 9mm pistol, it might be difficult to prove (ii) above, but if it's for centrefire pistol competition the firearm might as well be a 9mm as a .32, .38, .40 or even a .45.

So what happens if you already have two centrefires and can't really find a competitive use for one of them except for the fact that you enjoy shooting it on the range?
Is not the enjoyment of shooting sports enough to own a firearm anymore?
Just curious

dresden8

Slug chucker wrote: »

So what happens if you already have two centrefires and can't really find a competitive use for one of them except for the fact that you enjoy shooting it on the range?
Is not the enjoyment of shooting sports enough to own a firearm anymore?
Just curious

No. Apparently the only reason to take up sport these days is to get to the olympics. It's the same in all sport, except gaa and soccer, but they have their own agenda. There's no fun in sport anymore, just work and outrageous pressure to achieve.

Sparks

It might not be a de jure ban rrpc, but then again, there wasn't a de jure ban on pistols or fullbore rifles for 30 years either. De facto bans, de jure bans, all the same thing as far as casual shooters (who wouldn't relish the thought of a long hard fight against De Man) are concerned.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

It might not be a de jure ban rrpc, but then again, there wasn't a de jure ban on pistols or fullbore rifles for 30 years either. De facto bans, de jure bans, all the same thing as far as casual shooters (who wouldn't relish the thought of a long hard fight against De Man) are concerned.

Actually that was a de jure ban, albeit a temporary one. It became a de facto ban because everyone felt that there was no way it could be challenged without it being immediately replaced by another de jure temporary ban.

De facto bans are apparently all in the mind

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

It might not be a de jure ban rrpc, but then again, there wasn't a de jure ban on pistols or fullbore rifles for 30 years either. De facto bans, de jure bans, all the same thing as far as casual shooters (who wouldn't relish the thought of a long hard fight against De Man) are concerned.

I agree

Slug chucker

Sparks wrote: »

It might not be a de jure ban rrpc, but then again, there wasn't a de jure ban on pistols or fullbore rifles for 30 years either. De facto bans, de jure bans, all the same thing as far as casual shooters (who wouldn't relish the thought of a long hard fight against De Man) are concerned.

If you care to look at page 8 of the hardware section you'll see my equipment. I am a casual shooter who also shoots competitively.
But you can be sure of one thing; if they try to take anything off me I'll invest heavily to defend my sport and won’t take it lying down.
I’m the guts of twenty years shooting and it’s pretty much all I do in my spare time when I’m not attending to my family’s needs. I’ve always found my local police easy to deal with, not at all times have we seen eye to eye on matters but we have always reached an amicable decision that was agreeable to both parties. In other words in the long run I have prevailed and got what I’m looking for!
I’m not really sure what I’m trying to say here, I get frightened when I hear change is coming and especially when nobody really knows truly what’s about to happen or how it’s going to be applied.
Cheers,
Slug

bunny shooter

Slug Chucker

I am in more or less the same boat as yourself. I shoot target, rifle and pistol, but don't do a lot of competitions. I do a lot of hunting and vermin shooting.

I have a feeling that the "Official Target Shooters" are setting themselves up as the only legit users of the proposed "restricted" firearms. The hunters seem to be badly represented. NARGC can prove me wrong here if they wish as their website is still not updated.

There was another FCP meeting on Dec 5, no reports anwhere yet ?

Slug chucker

Bunny Shooter,

It kind of sucks not knowing what’s going on behind closed doors. I'm a kind of glass half full guy but sometimes that's not enough because the politicians don’t care about minorities unless there's votes involved or a chance of getting dragged into the EU courts. Some would be quiet happy to loose everything at the bargaining table for the sake of their .22 pistols and plunge us back to bad old days. I just hope this won't be the case.

Cheers,
Slug.

bunny shooter

Slug chucker wrote: »

Bunny Shooter,

It kind of sucks not knowing what’s going on behind closed doors. I'm a kind of glass half full guy but sometimes that's not enough because the politicians don’t care about minorities unless there's votes involved or a chance of getting dragged into the EU courts. Some would be quiet happy to loose everything at the bargaining table for the sake of their .22 pistols and plunge us back to bad old days. I just hope this won't be the case.

Cheers,
Slug.

New Year will tell a lot ?