European Cinema

Karl Hungus

It seems there's no end of interest in Asian cinema (Rightly so, I might add!) but when it comes to seriously good films, Europe has some crackingly good films to offer as well. So let us discuss them also, shall we?

France certainly appears to have a great wealth of talent, especially when we consider films like Delicatessen, La Haine. I've got a couple of films on DVD that I've not yet gotten around to watching, such as 36 and Hidden. Another excellent French film that I cannot recommend enough is Tell No One, which I've reviewed indepth here.

Germany has some excellent films as well as having some of the most influencial film-makers in history, such as Fritz Lang, and F.W. Murnau. More recently of course was the stunning Downfall, as well as Das Experiment, from the same director, Oliver Hirchbiegel. Another good one was Antibodies, an excellent thriller about a serial killer. I've also reviewed that film here.

There's lots more of course, that's just to get started. Let us discuss!

Please use spoiler tags though.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

when europe starts cracking out hundreds of cartoons about teenage girls falling over and showing their knickers, then you'll see as much interest online about europe as you do about japan.

until then, la haine was a good flick. Amelie was a technically beautiful film, but I hate that ****ing bitch so much. she ruined that movie on me.

Karl Hungus

Mordeth wrote: »

when europe starts cracking out hundreds of cartoons about teenage girls falling over and showing their knickers, then you'll see as much interest online about europe as you do about japan.

That's a pretty shakey comparison right there... How do you figure that's so?

Vokes

I came across Antibodies on the telly late one night a few months back and was blown away by it. Serial killer flcks generally don't do it for me, but this one was deeply unsettling

I see from your imdb link, Karl, that the director also wrote the screenplay and co-produced. Impressive work! It'll be interesting to see what he gets up to next.

senordingdong

Karl Hungus wrote: »

That's a pretty shakey comparison right there... How do you figure that's so?

I think his arguement is that Asia throws out it's fair share of ****e too.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

i don't really have an argument, I just find japanophiles personally offensive.

Karl Hungus

Right... Lets take this one back on topic please. No point in having it completely derailed before it's even taken off.

leeroybrown

I'm definitely in agreement that European cinema has some real gems that are under-represented both in newer cinema and classic films. I'm a huge fan of Jean-Pierre Melville particularly his stylish crime thrillers such as Le Samouraï, Le Cercle Rouge and Le Doulos. Some other classic favourites would be À bout de souffle and Le Trou. Some more recent favourites not mentioned above would include The Lives of Others, 13 Tzameti, The Counterfeiters and La Fille sur le pont.

I think that one area where European cinema excels in is really tightly directed drama and thrillers with real style and atmosphere.

johnny_ultimate

Well, I have recently become a big fan of Michael Haneke. Karl mentioned Hidden (Caché) above, which is really one of the most astonishing films of recent years. It uses surveillance as a tool as well as a theme to create a film like no-other. Also have to recommend Funny Games by the same director - truly a disturbing experience. Bizarrely, he is remaking Funny Games in America with Naomi Watts, and from the trailer looks like a shot for shot remake basically. It's sad that a mainstream audience won't except subtitles at all

Became interested in the French New Wave too. If anyone hasn't seen Weekend yet, check it out: art cinema at it's best (just don't expect any kind of traditional narrative. Truffaut is also a bit of a God: Jules et Jim and the 400 Blows are both astonishing films.

Also: Ingmar Bergman is possibly the greatest film-maker who has ever lived. Perhaps the pinnacle figure of European cinema. Re-watched the Seventh Seal just last night and was once again blown away.

Ooh and I watched Tell No One a couple of weeks ago myself. Very effective thriller, if ultimately a bit generic, but sure once a genre is handled well that doesn't really matter.

Karl Hungus

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

It's sad that a mainstream audience won't except subtitles at all

I'd kinda disagree there. I think films like Hero, Apocalypto, The Passion of the Christ, as well as films like Kill Bill that are parcially subtitled, all go to show that subtitles don't really put audiences off to a large degree. I'd say it's more a case of studios not having the faith in their audience's intelligence. I'm sure if there were enough subtitled films being shown in English speaking countries regularly, people would get over any reservations they have. If a large portion of movies shown in non-English speaking countries are subtitled, and still get big box office revenues, then I'm sure it's no different.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Also: Ingmar Bergman is possibly the greatest film-maker who has ever lived. Perhaps the pinnacle figure of European cinema. Re-watched the Seventh Seal just last night and was once again blown away.

I've not seen nearly as much of Bergman's stuff as I'd like to, but indeed, the Seventh Seal is truly magnificent.

Pigman II

Mordeth wrote: »

i don't really have an argument, I just find japanophiles personally offensive.

Hear Hear. Even this thread smacks of arrogance as tho Asian cinema is the big foreign player where as European is just some sort of plucky little curio. That might be the opinion among the populace of your local Forbidden Planet but there are other cinema-goers out there who couldn't give too hoots about it (myself included for the most part).

European cinema is where's it at. Asian is mostly rubbish thats only redeeming feature is that it is culturally different.

Karl Hungus

Pigman, I can't tell if you're trolling, but can we please keep this on-topic?

Wacker

Seeing as Fritz Lang got a mention, have any of you guys seen M?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0022100/

I believe I heard it was the first ever serial killer film. The subject matter is still really taboo more than seventy years later. It's worth seeing.

johnny_ultimate

Karl Hungus wrote: »

I'd kinda disagree there. I think films like Hero, Apocalypto, The Passion of the Christ, as well as films like Kill Bill that are parcially subtitled, all go to show that subtitles don't really put audiences off to a large degree. I'd say it's more a case of studios not having the faith in their audience's intelligence. I'm sure if there were enough subtitled films being shown in English speaking countries regularly, people would get over any reservations they have. If a large portion of movies shown in non-English speaking countries are subtitled, and still get big box office revenues, then I'm sure it's no different.
.

I think those films are more the exception than the rule. Apocalypto and Passion probably benefited more from the presence of Crazy Mel G than anything, and they also had that whole controversial violence aspect to them. In my own experience, I have seen people actually grimace when told a film is subtitled. Xtravision has actually even started putting huge SUBTITLES stickers on their foreign films, which is probably effectively a Do Not Rent! sticker for many. I totally agree with you: subtitles shouldn't make any difference, and I for one find it makes a film no easier or harder to appreciate (except when Im really tired they do tend to put me to sleep quicker ): they are just there and you get drawn into them. But I think alot of people make an unnecessary big deal out of them, hence the prevalent theme of remakes which are effectively watered down versions of the originals.

Karl Hungus

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I think those films are more the exception than the rule. Apocalypto and Passion probably benefited more from the presence of Crazy Mel G than anything, and they also had that whole controversial violence aspect to them. In my own experience, I have seen people actually grimace when told a film is subtitled. Xtravision has actually even started putting huge SUBTITLES stickers on their foreign films, which is probably effectively a Do Not Rent! sticker for many. I totally agree with you: subtitles shouldn't make any difference, and I for one find it makes a film no easier or harder to appreciate (except when Im really tired they do tend to put me to sleep quicker ): they are just there and you get drawn into them. But I think alot of people make an unnecessary big deal out of them, hence the prevalent theme of remakes which are effectively watered down versions of the originals.

I think it's just a case of people having reservations. If more subtitled films were shown in the cinema, and had a big marketing push, a lot of people people would just get over it eventually.

Necronomicon

I'm really digging French films at the moment. Off the top of my head La Haine, Switchblade Romance, Irreversible, Crimson Rivers and probably a few others I can't think of (edit: Just remembered the excellent "Them"). I've been meaning to see 36 for a while now, but I've never seen it for below €30 odd euro. I'd like to see Hidden as well.

I must watch a few more German films, Downfall is the only one I have at the moment. The Lives of Others is another one that's been on my to-get list for a while now.

Karl Hungus

Necromomicon wrote: »

I'm really digging French films at the moment. Off the top of my head La Haine, Switchblade Romance, Irreversible, Crimson Rivers and probably a few others I can't think of (edit: Just remembered the excellent "Them"). I've been meaning to see 36 for a while now, but I've never seen it for below €30 odd euro. I'd like to see Hidden as well.

36 I picked up in HMV's 3 for €30 offer, so worth noting.

I've still not seen Irreversible myself either, but it's been on my to-do list for some time.

Necromomicon wrote: »

I must watch a few more German films, Downfall is the only one I have at the moment. The Lives of Others is another one that's been on my to-get list for a while now.

Yeah, The Lives of Others is something I've been meaning to see also.

johnny_ultimate

Necromomicon wrote: »

I must watch a few more German films, Downfall is the only one I have at the moment. The Lives of Others is another one that's been on my to-get list for a while now.

If you are looking for a good German film The Edukators is on RTE on Tuesday or Wendesday I think. Very intelligent, enjoyable film, probably the best Ive seen of the new batch of German film-making (Downfall, Goodbye Lenin etc..). Lives of Others is also excellent,

plus has the most brilliantly cheesy final frame you will ever see

.

Although have to disagree with you on Them - thought it was garbage !

Pigman II

Plus it has Julia Jentsch who is the best young actress to pop up in a number of years (not to mention the sexiest).

johnny_ultimate

Pigman II wrote: »

Plus it has Julia Jentsch who is the best young actress to pop up in a number of years (not to mention the sexiest).

+1! A fine actress to spend 2.5 hours with

Snake Plisken

Karl Hungus wrote: »

I've still not seen Irreversible myself either, but it's been on my to-do list for some time.

Oh yes this is one head wrecking film, think Chartbusters are renting it under world cinema section, if you want to watch it before u buy, I had to buy it, caught it on French satellite channel one day, don't speak french but the goddamn imagery on the screen, really messed with my head, I had to find out as much as I could about it and about its director and when Tartan released it over here I made sure I picked it up in HMV and watched it again great film making imho!

I will compile a list of Spanish Movies worth watching from some great Directors Like Bigas Lunas, Alejandro Amenabar & great comidic actor and director Santiago Segura, I'll throw in one or two Almodovar peliculas too!

Otis Driftwood

The Pusher Trilogy - Denmark
Thriller:a cruel picture-Sweden
Nekromantik 1+2,Der Todesking,Schramm-all Germany
Any Dario Argento or Lucio Fulci movies-Italy
Man bites Dog-Belgium
Run Lola Run-Germany

All worth checking out as they cover a multitude of themes from horror,thriller,gangster and pretty much everything in between.

abelard

Not a massive fan of European cinema on the whole (as in I just don't get a chance to see that many of the films, not that I don't get a kick out of them).

Two I'd definitely recommed though, and I know they've been mentioned already are Das Experiment and Goodbye Lenin (I loved that one).

I used to be an avid follower of the foreign films on RTÉ (I only had the Irish channels!), but I haven't really seen much since I started college. Has there been anything particularly special released in the last 2.5 years or so?

macinalli

Didn't get a chance to catch the Werner Herzog season in the IFI but he has some really good stuff. Both Fitzcarraldo & Aguirre Wrath of God are damn fine films. The new one, Rescue Dawn is also supposed to be good...

Cokehead Mother

Baise-moi is the most fúcked up piece of trash ever. It's crap but def worth a watch.

Ghost Train

just thought i'd mention pans labyrinth
since it's on tonight on film4 at 9

Pride Fighter

My fav European films are as follows. Goodbye Lenin, Das Boot, Jean De Florette, Manon Des Sources, The Downfall, Run Lola Run, Le Bossu, La Maitrese http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074883/ TG4 have shown it a few times and the Commitments(Technically Ireland is in Europe )

herbieflowers

The Hours of the Day is a good Spanish film, hehe

The Great One

I mentioned this in a thread about it(but that dissapeared very quickly) but Romanzo Criminale is a very good Italien Gangster film that any fan of the genre would enjoy.

Dont be at yourself

'European cinema' is almost as shallow and meaningly a term as 'Asian cinema' or 'Hollywood cinema' - each are capable of disappointing just as much as they of impressing.

Asian cinema tends to be celebrated more over here because a) it is (was) new, fresh and thus cool, b) it often value style over substance and c) it's (often) Japanese!!!

European cinema, on the other hand, is old hat. People think it's all smoked-filled rooms and lesbians. However, over the last decade or so, it has undoubtedly enjoyed something of a renaissance. Films like Intacto, La Haine, L'Auberge Espagnole, Goodbye Lenin, The Lives of Others etc have put forward a good case that Europe is the current world lealder in cinema.

Is that the case? I don't think so. In Ireland, we are shovel-fed Hollywood movies, and so our enjoyment of films like Zodiac is tempered by the distaste left by rubbish like Norbit. With Japanese cinema, a very small portion of films reach Ireland, and they are completely removed from what's being shown in the local multiplexes in Japan (which tends to be horrible melodramas, countless manga adaptations, with the odd gem thrown in). Equally, European cinema doesnt have the draw of Hollywood in Ireland, so we're left with a small and probably not wholly accurate representation of the European film industry.

Cianos

Can't think of many now but one I would put out is the beat that my heart skipped.

trailer

Really good acting, great music and the cast is very solid too...Aura Atika is a fox;)

Galvasean

Favourites off the top of my head are...

Le Haine
Brotherhood of the Wolf
The Bear
Quest For Fire
Belleville Rendevouz

and thats just France!

MoominPapa

Picked up Betty Blue at the w/e, haven't seen it in years can't wait. Maybe have some snuggles with MoominMama after;)

European ftw.