Reserves Vs Student Gardai

source

I'm a student garda and was thinking to myself that the current situation where reserves have more powers than student gardai who have put in way more training time is a bit ridiculous.....here's a possible solution.

how about if they were to bring in reserve powers for student gardai out on phase 2.

it would definately improve manpower problems, also phase 2 students wouldn't just be dead weight they'd actually be able to do something. and would also be trained up on baton and cuffs so would be better able to protect themselves.

current scenario shows student gardai going through almost 6 months full time training and then hitting the streets as civilians in uniform, where as reserves go through a few weekends and hit the streets with way more powers than student gardai.

It would also mean seeing almost 300 new gardai who can actually do something on the streets every 3 months.

so what do ye think? agree....disagree.....think i'm nuts???? any better ideas??

civdef

First off, I'm not speaking from anything approaching experience here, just based on what I've picked up happens elsewhere.

UK police recruits spend far less time in college before going out on the streets. They'll do 12-15 weks in training shool, having been attested as constables near the beginning of that course. The rest of their training is mostly on the job under the guidance of a tutor, with occasional trips back to training school.

Why do Gardai take so long training before getting out on the street? Would something like foinse sugeests make more sense?

the locust

Student Gds come out with a degree at the end of it. Theres a lot more invested in Student Gardai these days. Reserves are just for show, like the cardboard cut outs of police that they sit in cars at the side of the road in america

Id definitely agree with foinse that phase2 students could do with more powers

metman

I think Garda training and equipment needs to be brought into the 21st century. In answer to Foinse's question, how about they just attest officers on joining?

I take the view that the Garda needs a bit of an update. For starters a training allowance for 2 years in lieu of a salary? A training program that encompasses so many pointless modules in order to qualify as a degree? No police powers for 2 years and probation for 3? So every recruit out of training school has a degree? Big deal. There's far too much time spent on irrelevant subjects at Templemore IMO.

Met recruits attend Hendon for 18 weeks, this being a mix of classroom and practical work. You are attested on joining the force, receive your salary from day one, and have free bus, tram and tube travel as well as free rail travel up to 70 miles outside of London. After Hendon you do 10 weeks with a tutor constable on street duties being shown whats what. However its only on joining your team, post street duties, that you will start to learn your trade.

When I think that I would have had to do my entire probation with no police powers, unable to even put on a crime report.....well its a depressing and demoralising thought. The Garda regs must consider probies next to useless. I think the whole training program could be trimmed down and made more relevant. To be honest, if the Guards training program lasted 5 years where every trainee wound up with a masters degree in 'policing' and spoke 3 languages on graduation, they still wouldn't be any better prepared for the reality of police work than a recruit out of Hendon after 18 weeks.

As for the kit. Well its clear that the money just isn't spent on looking after the Guards. The cars are rubbish, no cs spray, no tasers, lack of armed response, reluctantly issued body armour and asps, and a lot of the stations in such a state of disrepair as to be unfit for human habitation. Disgraceful.

As for the reserves; here they get similar training to the GR and are given full police powers and kit with very little training. However they generally (in the met at least) don't work on response teams but do neighbourhood and complimentary policing roles. Generally they're not popular with regular officers and don't really mix with regs. Some are competent, most are nice helpful people, but the reality is that many are mere uniform carriers with an element of walter mitty sad types.

source

metman just one little correction, the 2 years is broken into 5 phases.

Phase 1, in college, learning legal, policing procedures etc...
Phase 2, training station.
Phase 3, back in college, practical based, attested to force at end of phase with
full pay
Phase 4, final station, as probationary garda, this is where you complete your
thesis.
Phase 5, 4 weeks of practice for passing out parade + some classes and final
interview with training staff, then graduation.

so the training allowance is only for a year. but you're spot on with the rest.

CLADA

Alright Metman, you were reading my mind. That's the way it was here up to 1990 or so. You arrived in Templemore, were attested, did 22 weeks training and then went out and really learned how to be a Garda.

As Ricky Tomlinson would say..Degree, my arse:D

JonAnderton

Met training school is changing now though. With the remote training schools started up, I believe they are beginning to do a few weeks at the training establishment and a few weeks on their borough, then back to the training school, etc.

I know some people who never had a street duties course, they were put straight onto relief teams. Looking back at ours, I think it might have been better to have been posted with a tutor constable or constables but on the team, for 10 weeks.

How long have you been out of Hndon MetMan?. We never got our warrant cards till the last day so no free travel 'til we had finished training. Also, our basic pay was less while at training school then when we went on borough. I know since they started this new scheme, the recruits get their briefs earlier.

I've never had any bad experience with Specials and know a few who seem to be alright. I've noticed a few I've seen out and about have removed the 'SC' badge from their shoulder epaulattes... (Hmmmmmm)

Stand by for the introduction of PCSO's to Ireland...

metman

The setup is changing with the new system being rolled out.

I've worked with a couple of good specials too, but a few spanners as well, usually the ones without the SC on their epaulettes.

I've 4 years in. What about yourself?

the locust

I totally agree with Metman

An Garda Siochana's way too 'traditional' and stuck in the past, with everything! The top brass are really proud of the tradition and history, - but stick it all in a museum and get us kitted out for the 21st century!

Our uniforms rarely fit and appear baggy and unproffesional, the vests were an improvement though, first step in the right direction

Some visual deterant would also be nice - such as OC Spray on the waist belt or a taser, (would a glock be pushin it? Thats another discussion).

Cars need some serious funding, although i think money should be spent on technology i.e. GPS, computers, vehicle reg checkers etc...

JonAnderton

Five and a bit.

When you consider how much has changed during our service (PCSO's, SOCPA, 124D's, various legislation, etc) whats the job going to be like when we retire.

I've a friend who's a Reserve and he seems to be really enjoying it.

Once they put you out on the street and are operational, they need to give you full powers. We still attend ATU (Area Training Units) in the following two years after leaving Hendon where we learn about other bits of legislation not covered at Training School. If you're working a busy ground, you'd usually have been to court with people for the same offences you were only just 'learning' about. Strange, but thats the way they do it.

CLADA

metman wrote: »

Met recruits attend Hendon for 18 weeks, this being a mix of classroom and practical work. You are attested on joining the force, receive your salary from day one, and have free bus, tram and tube travel as well as free rail travel up to 70 miles outside of London.

:eek: And we're getting hammered over on the after hours forum for accepting a free cup of coffee:rolleyes:

JonAnderton

I saw that thread the other day and have only just finished laughing....

What a lot of people don't know is that the 'free' travel is actually barted out between London Transport and the Met. The job actually do pay a contribution to TfL so the officers can have free travel.

I'm not gonig to get started on the free late night brews and the cheap kebabs. GTP is a phrase thats slowly going out of fashion though.

TheNog

My phase 3 was 12 weeks long and I swear to god what a waste of time. The phase could have been wedged into 6 weeks therefore leaving the other 6 weeks to complete the driving the course. This I find is the major obstacle for me is not being able to drive. Our district is fairly big so if I want to get a statement, look at cctv or whatever I have to wait till I am detailed in the car and persuade the driver to take me to that place!!!!!! and they wonder why some of my files are late going in.

On topic though with the current set up of training I don't think that student gardai should have powers on for phase 2. The reason is that their phase 2 station usually isn't going to be their permanent station and also cos they will be going back to the college for 3 months. What if you had to attend court during phase 3?? Ye'd miss classes and fall behind. Phase 2 students should however be trained/issued with cuffs and asp for protection. In my phase 2 station I was told by the chief to take off my blue thingys cos I would be targeted as our customers know we were students. My only protection was to use my mouth or failing that a 3 cell maglite torch. Thankfully my good looks and charm saved me!!!!!

metman

TheNog wrote: »

Thankfully my good looks and charm saved me!!!!!

Lucky I carry CS and an Asp....I'd get mullered if I was depending on my looks and charm!

TheNog

metman wrote: »

Lucky I carry CS and an Asp....I'd get mullered if I was depending on my looks and charm!

lol..... It was probably my orgrish looks and charm that did it for me instead.

Straighttalker

back to the point of the thread.. Sudent Gardai sould not get powers. They should however be issued with all the protective equipment necessary for their safety. I find students are of way more value than reserves who are there to 'make up the numbers' and like previous posts inferred, tend to attract walter mitty types (obviously not all).

donvito99

This is a mighty old thread.

deadwood

Jesus, looks like the clocks went back a wee bit more than an hour!

kerry4sam

As a matter if interest, what is the time-limit for some-one to dig up an auld thread? Surely 2years is too long and a new thread should be opened, no?

Hooch

kerry4sam wrote: »

As a matter if interest, what is the time-limit for some-one to dig up an auld thread? Surely 2years is too long and a new thread should be opened, no?

Agreed....its up to the mods kerry really. But this is a zombie.....