Marriage on the rocks

LegacyUser

Hi, I post here a bit so I will go unreged for this one.
My wife and I have been married for 11 years and have two kids. Up till about 4 years ago we got on great and had a good sex life but then it all changed, my wife lost her sex drive completely.
I know women can lose their sex drives after child birth and I was very understanding of this and encourage her to find help, which she wouldn’t.
So the first year we had sex twice which I was not happy about but new my wife was having issues with it so I tried to understand, I continued to encourage her to seek help and even suggested that we both go to counselling which she refused to do. The second and third years were as bad with my wife refusing to even talk about it and making me out to be the one in the wrong “looking for it all the time”.
I have to say the rest of our family life was running as normal and she was happy to keep it that way but once I said anything about sex she would tell me to leave it.
I don’t know what other people think but when I got married I was presuming sex would be part of, or was I just fooling myself?
So we are now in this year and we have not been close at all she told me that sex held no interest to her and that I would just have to live with it, she still refuses to see anybody about it.
I hope I don’t come across in this tread as a man who only has sex on his mind; I feel I have been more than supportive but now feel that a lot of damage has been done to our marriage.
Over the last few months I have felt that I am falling out of love with her and that the sex life that I tried to get her to understand was so important to us and our marriage doesn’t mean anything anymore.
So tonight it came to a head, we have just had a major fight and all the things I have been keeping inside came out in a rush, I basically told her I didn’t love her anymore and will never forgive her for destroying what we had.
I know people will tell me to think of the kids and I assure you that I am but when you come to the realisation that you have fallen out of love with someone who even if there was hope to work it out would refuse to seek help.
I don’t know why I posted this here, maybe just to get it out of my head and for people to tell me if or where I am going wrong but as of now I see no future in my marriage.

Wibbs

I think it comes down to this. For a relationship to work, both people have to be willing to work at it. In your case if you were willing to forego a sex life then it might work(unlikely though). If she was willing to work on why she's not sexual anymore, then it might work. Neither of you are so, unless you agree to professional help then yes I think your marriage is doomed.

LegacyUser

Why dont you go for counselling on your own before you make any drastic moves.

Your wife is not playing fair. IMO, sex is part and parcel of a healthy and loving relationship, along with caring, nurturing, friendship etc etc. She is holding back on one of the fundamental areas of your life. There is no excuse for this. Is/ was she suffering from post natal depression?

I think you should talk to a counsellor. Talk to your wife and see if there is a way around this. I think she is being selfish and would not like to be facing into a 40 year sexless relationship. The ball is really in her court and she is responsible for making the change.

Carrigart Exile

do you kiss and cuddle ? If not try it without expecting anything more

JuliusCaesar

Sounds like you've been trying and she's been ignoring the problem (which, if her sex drive is gone, she may see as YOUR problem) in the hopes that it'll resolve itself. Maybe the row will let her know how serious this is for you both as a couple and she'll go to counselling. BTW, kissing & cuddling is excelent but you must make it clear to her that you won't go any further than that - and then you must stick to that!

biko

You're a father and a man. These roles have different priorities, and both need attention.
I'm fairly sure you wife knows why she does not want sex, perhaps she does not feel sexy any more? How does she respond to other intimacy?
As suggested above, marriage counselling.

LegacyUser

Hi all, thank you for the replies,

In answer to some of your question, yes we did/do cuddle and no I don’t look for sex every time we do, I feel that over the last four years I have done everything in my power to help her and make her understand how important a sex life is to our marriage but she just doesn’t want to know.

As for not feeling good about herself, she looks better and feels better in herself (her words) now than she ever has and treats herself to days out in health SPA with her friends and as I said the rest of our family life is fine.

What upsets me most is her lack of concern for how I feel as a man, I have never been unfaithful and never will I am a good father and husband, but she has never sat down with me and said “yes I have a problem” and now I have come to the conclusion she never will.

To give you an example of how frustrating it can be,

A few months ago we had a night out with friends, we went for a meal and then on to a pub for drinks. We had a great night with plenty of laughs. We sat beside each other all night held hands and seemed to be very close.

Well the night ended and we said goodbye to our friends and got a taxi home. The kids were on a sleep over with my parents so we had a free house we giggled and laughed all the way up the stairs. We got ready for bed and got in she turns out the light and rolls over with her back to me and says goodnight I cuddle up to her and ask if she would like to make love and all she said was “O don’t start”

Even this morning (I slept in the spare room) she didn’t take on board the seriousness of the situation and said why it is that men always think with their penis is?

So with that I can’t see where I can go from here.

LegacyUser

I am in exactly the same position. Two kids under 4. During the first pregnancy it all stopped and has never really come back.

If I bite my lip and say nothing I can feel it building up inside me and I know that eventually I will have to say something. However, when I do, I end up being in the doghouse for stupid reasons. Usually because Im apparently being unfair or selfish for expecting sex every blue moon. She sometimes claims that she wants sex but is too tired, etc. Fine, but am I a bástard for thinking that a healthy relationship can't survive without sex for months on end? She is still in denial about the fact that we went from her being five months pregnant with our first until the kid was 16 months old without having sex! I have never demanded sex and by now I just don't look for it.

Part of the current problem is the fact that the youngest (who is over a year old) still sleeps in our room. When I suggest moving the baby out the issue of lack of space, etc. arises (she suggests its my fault). A few times she blamed me for not giving her the time to make the space (any free space is taken up with her crap!) to move the cot out. I was doing doing heavy DIY work out the back that she had asked me to do. Was I meant to be minding two kids whilst working with power tools?

About a fortnight ago I managed to sit her down and get my feelings about our relationship (again) and again I was in the wrong no matter what I said. I deliberately decided that I wasn't going to use sex as an issue within the discussion as any time that it was mentioned before I was accused of just wanting sex when she isn't in a place to enjoy it. I tried damn hard working on the relationship since the discussion and it was all coldly received.

Last night in bed I suggested that we might move the cot out and I was told that we hadn't time to do this because she wants to get Christmas presents for our families this weekend (FFS!). I ended up moving down to the couch out of frustration and now she is claiming that she was right in not believing that I wanted to work on our relationship. She throws accusations at me which are constantly untrue but she won't listen to me when I try and retort.

I know I have made demands (e.g. the one above) but at the same time I have given a lot of legroom. Im pissed off at constantly being made feel in the wrong for any actions that it gets to the point that I wish I hadn't bothered trying. Then I am in the doghouse for not trying! Twice in recent months when we were arguing about something she grabbed me as I tried to go out to clear my head. The first time she denied anything wrong was done. The second time, after I was standing outside the front door and she tried to pull me back inside, I wouldn't speak to her. It took her two weeks to say how sorry she was. Had I grabbed her, I would never get back into the house!

After the first child, I didn't want any more kids because the whole experience put me off. On the basis that our relationship would go through the same stress as the first time I was reluctant to try for a second child. Eventually I agreed after she promised that we wouldn't go through the same issues as we would work on them together, etc..

Well here I am now! We haven't had sex/made love in over four months. Before that time it was a few months. I recently had my office Christmas party. I could have slept with someone else but didn't. Im not fully sure why. Do I love her? I believe so! Does she love me? I believe so. I love my kids but I do feel that their arrival have ruined our relationship. Had I slept with someone else, I know I would have come clean about it and ended up losing my wife, kids, house, etc.

I am tired of trying and getting nowhere. I suggested counselling before and was bluntly told that it was all in my head and we didn't need it. Im tired of pretending to others that I live a normal life. We rarely get time to talk to each other and when we do I usually end up regretting it. Still she manages to talk to her mother every evening when I am in the kitchen (tidying up after dinner).

So whats the point? I don't want to lose everything but still feel that I am being pushed out. When I try, it goes unappreciated.

I appreciate everything she does for me and I do tell her despite her telling me that I don't. She mentioned that she wanted all this cuddly ****e. I tried it and it didn't work. I just ended up feeling horny and unable to do or say anything about it. I usually was the one that would initiate a hug or put my arm around her and I ended up getting fed up with being the only one that extended the arm of friendship so to speak.

However, being the coward that I am, I will probably continue to exist like this until it finally resolves itself one way or another. I know that if the relationship ends, I will be the loser but what can I do?

Just re-reading the post, it seems like my relationship is in bits. Maybe its not as bad as it sounds, maybe it is. I don't want it to be in bits and I don't think she does either. However, where do we go from here?

Rb

As others have said, sort out counselling asap.

If she has no interest or refuses to do that, whilst acknowledging the problems but not wanting to solve them, divorce her. Far, far too many people stay with their partners "for the kids" and end up damaging their own life and happiness. If she refuses to try and work on the relationship, give up on it and go find someone you'll be happier with. It's your life afterall, you deserve happiness and can still be a good father at the same time.

thebiggestjim

rb_ie wrote: »

Far, far too many people stay with their partners "for the kids" and end up damaging their own life and happiness.

It is damaging to the kids also to be living in this kind of atmosphere. If this cannot be resolved satisfactorily I think its in everyones interest it ends. Yours, your wifes and even if you don't think so its also in your kids interest.

Wibbs

rb_ie wrote: »

As others have said, sort out counselling asap.

If she has no interest or refuses to do that, whilst acknowledging the problems but not wanting to solve them, divorce her. Far, far too many people stay with their partners "for the kids" and end up damaging their own life and happiness. If she refuses to try and work on the relationship, give up on it and go find someone you'll be happier with. It's your life afterall, you deserve happiness and can still be a good father at the same time.

I agree with this.

unregd Dad wrote:

However, being the coward that I am, I will probably continue to exist like this until it finally resolves itself one way or another. I know that if the relationship ends, I will be the loser but what can I do?

First thing, stop being a coward and start respecting yourself. This does not mean being aggressive with your wife, it means standing up for yourself and your needs within the context of your family. If she disrespects you or your needs let her know. Be firm and direct. If she tries this physical stuff again call her on it and tell her firmly and calmly that it's not acceptable to you. Basically and very crudely you're whipped and she has probably lost respect for you and that could be one reason why she doesn't want to sleep with you, beyond any post natal issues.

Just re-reading the post, it seems like my relationship is in bits. Maybe its not as bad as it sounds, maybe it is. I don't want it to be in bits and I don't think she does either. However, where do we go from here?

Only you know how bad it is, but a marriage without intimacy is not a marriage in my book. Plus if she didn't want it to be in bits, then she would have done more about it, not berate you for having a legitimate need. So stop making excuses for her and more importantly yourself.

LegacyUser

I am 30 year old female. Reading these posts is such an eye opener.

What I’ve realised, is how can you have a happy marriage when you have no sex life - its one of the most important ingredients to a healthy relationship. It’s a natural instinct to feel loved and wanted. I understand that women loose their sex drive occasionally but for months on end....this is crazy. I almost left my long term partner last year over a similar problem, his sex drive was non existent for eight months. Even though most other aspects of our relationship were fine, the lack of sex was having a knock on effect on other things. I was becoming resentful and felt unwanted. After much serious discussion, he made the effort and things returned to normal. Actually, we’ve become closer as a result.

OP relationships are a two way thing. You obviously take care of your responsibilities, you are there for your family and so on. Your wife is being completely unreasonable, especially after you have discussed it on numerous occasions. I would demand that she attends counselling - if not, leave. As other posters have said, children are sensitive to the atmosphere in the house. How can you be a content parent, unless you feel happy and fulfilled in your relationship. Your wife is denying you that happiness. You are certainly not being unreasonable and you are not in the wrong, she is being selfish - these are just lame excuses on her behalf. By insisting she attends counselling, you are leaving the ball in her court - it is up to her whether she wants to salvage the marriage

Rogueish

First of all, my heart goes out to you both. A relationship for it to be whole in the traditional sense must have a physical and emotional part.

Sometime women feel that they are the only ones that are not swinging from the lampshades and jumping off wardrobes every night and as a result feel that they cannot discuss such matters without feeling like a freak. Or maybe discussing sex in any form makes them feel really uncomfortable......

Ok I'm going to be devils advocate here. Maybe your wife was never really set alight by the physical element of your relationship and feels that it is just too much hard work after housework, maybe a job, looking after two children etc? Or maybe doesn't know how to communicate her needs to you effectively?

I have been in the position that I haven't been in the mood for sex, been too tired, drained or just disinterested for a prolonged period of time. But I have been able to talk about it with my partner - that I was as unhappy about it as he was and I was trying to do something about it too. Thats what makes the difference.

The question is why does your wife feel uncomfortable talking about it. Does she feel that it is her fault and doesn't know how to fix it and because she doesn't know how to fix it can't talk about it because she feels that she will have to accept all the blame?

I believe that you will have to go down the road of counselling. Starting out with yourself - your wife does not want to talk about it at the moment so you will have to start with yourself. Right now you are feeling unloved and unwanted by the woman you love(d) dearly and you first need to sort through your feelings. Not just the ones associated with sex but the others concerning your children etc, then the councellor can help you to involve your wife.

Good luck

LegacyUser

Hi all,
Just an update on what’s happen over the last few days.

Everything seems to have taken off and not in a good way. We have been arguing nonstop since the night of my first post. Things have been said in anger that I don’t think we can ever get over.

She told me that she doesn’t love me and hasn’t for the last five years and she wants a separation, I can’t tell if this is just a reaction to me saying that I didn’t love her are whether she means it.

At the less aggressive times of our arguing I asked her again would she please come to counselling with me and try and work things out but she refused saying
“why her not wanting sex is any bigger an issue than me wanting it” and “surly it’s her right as a human being to decide what she likes and wants to do with her body”

I have come to terms with the fact that there are a lot more problems in our marriage than just sex and feel that there is not much hope for us, so much so that today I had a meeting with a solicitor to find out where I stand.

I know the timing of all this coming up to Christmas is so bad for the kids but I think as some of you said in your posts this type of atmosphere is not good for the kids either.

I am still willing to go to counselling and try and salvage something from this mess but if she refuses to even consider it I can't see the point going on my own.

Beruthiel

on the rocks wrote: »

“why her not wanting sex is any bigger an issue than me wanting it” and “surly it’s her right as a human being to decide what she likes and wants to do with her body”.

What a load of b.s. and she knows it is.
There is a lot more going on here, no sex is a symptom of a much greater problem. The fact that she is not willing to discuss that problem with you is totally unfair of her considering ye are married with kids.
Let things calm down and once again try and see if you can talk to her reasonably.
Counselling is badly needed, surely she must want to give it a go before totally giving up on the relationship.

milod

on the rocks wrote: »

I know the timing of all this coming up to Christmas is so bad for the kids but I think as some of you said in your posts this type of atmosphere is not good for the kids either.

I am still willing to go to counselling and try and salvage something from this mess but if she refuses to even consider it I can't see the point going on my own.

OP, you have all my sympathy. Been there, done that, and I know the sheer frustration of being made to feel like you are the problem. Don't allow yourself to be convinced that you're just some dirty old man looking for unreasonable sexual deviance. A healthy relationship doesn't work like that and I'm afraid it doesn't sound good - I don't think your wife said she wants a separation just because you asked for sex - that was just a catalyst.

Christmas always seems to bring out the demons too, so I suggest you agree with your wife to postpone the next step 'til after Christmas. I know that won't be pleasant for you - again I've suffered through a miserable one, but it's what you do when you have kids I suppose.

I wish you the best, but you may have to face the fact that there's nothing to salvage here. I'm four years down the road from my own separation, and though it wasn't an ideal situation for the children, I'm much happier, and I don't think they miss the arguments. You can still be a dad even if you're not a husband...

LegacyUser

unregd Dad wrote: »

I am in exactly the same position. Two kids under 4. During the first pregnancy it all stopped and has never really come back.

If I bite my lip and say nothing I can feel it building up inside me and I know that eventually I will have to say something. However, when I do, I end up being in the doghouse for stupid reasons. Usually because Im apparently being unfair or selfish for expecting sex every blue moon. She sometimes claims that she wants sex but is too tired, etc. Fine, but am I a bástard for thinking that a healthy relationship can't survive without sex for months on end? She is still in denial about the fact that we went from her being five months pregnant with our first until the kid was 16 months old without having sex! I have never demanded sex and by now I just don't look for it.

Part of the current problem is the fact that the youngest (who is over a year old) still sleeps in our room. When I suggest moving the baby out the issue of lack of space, etc. arises (she suggests its my fault). A few times she blamed me for not giving her the time to make the space (any free space is taken up with her crap!) to move the cot out. I was doing doing heavy DIY work out the back that she had asked me to do. Was I meant to be minding two kids whilst working with power tools?

About a fortnight ago I managed to sit her down and get my feelings about our relationship (again) and again I was in the wrong no matter what I said. I deliberately decided that I wasn't going to use sex as an issue within the discussion as any time that it was mentioned before I was accused of just wanting sex when she isn't in a place to enjoy it. I tried damn hard working on the relationship since the discussion and it was all coldly received.

Last night in bed I suggested that we might move the cot out and I was told that we hadn't time to do this because she wants to get Christmas presents for our families this weekend (FFS!). I ended up moving down to the couch out of frustration and now she is claiming that she was right in not believing that I wanted to work on our relationship. She throws accusations at me which are constantly untrue but she won't listen to me when I try and retort.

I know I have made demands (e.g. the one above) but at the same time I have given a lot of legroom. Im pissed off at constantly being made feel in the wrong for any actions that it gets to the point that I wish I hadn't bothered trying. Then I am in the doghouse for not trying! Twice in recent months when we were arguing about something she grabbed me as I tried to go out to clear my head. The first time she denied anything wrong was done. The second time, after I was standing outside the front door and she tried to pull me back inside, I wouldn't speak to her. It took her two weeks to say how sorry she was. Had I grabbed her, I would never get back into the house!

After the first child, I didn't want any more kids because the whole experience put me off. On the basis that our relationship would go through the same stress as the first time I was reluctant to try for a second child. Eventually I agreed after she promised that we wouldn't go through the same issues as we would work on them together, etc..

Well here I am now! We haven't had sex/made love in over four months. Before that time it was a few months. I recently had my office Christmas party. I could have slept with someone else but didn't. Im not fully sure why. Do I love her? I believe so! Does she love me? I believe so. I love my kids but I do feel that their arrival have ruined our relationship. Had I slept with someone else, I know I would have come clean about it and ended up losing my wife, kids, house, etc.

I am tired of trying and getting nowhere. I suggested counselling before and was bluntly told that it was all in my head and we didn't need it. Im tired of pretending to others that I live a normal life. We rarely get time to talk to each other and when we do I usually end up regretting it. Still she manages to talk to her mother every evening when I am in the kitchen (tidying up after dinner).

So whats the point? I don't want to lose everything but still feel that I am being pushed out. When I try, it goes unappreciated.

I appreciate everything she does for me and I do tell her despite her telling me that I don't. She mentioned that she wanted all this cuddly ****e. I tried it and it didn't work. I just ended up feeling horny and unable to do or say anything about it. I usually was the one that would initiate a hug or put my arm around her and I ended up getting fed up with being the only one that extended the arm of friendship so to speak.

However, being the coward that I am, I will probably continue to exist like this until it finally resolves itself one way or another. I know that if the relationship ends, I will be the loser but what can I do?

Just re-reading the post, it seems like my relationship is in bits. Maybe its not as bad as it sounds, maybe it is. I don't want it to be in bits and I don't think she does either. However, where do we go from here?

you should have slept with that other girl,your marriage is over

Wibbs

Beruthiel wrote: »

What a load of b.s. and she knows it is.
There is a lot more going on here, no sex is a symptom of a much greater problem.

Exactly. The whole thing about her human rights to do with her body what she will is utter BS.:rolleyes: Trust me if she had the horn for you, she would want to do things banned in some countries and her "rights" over what she does with her body wouldn't come into play in the slightest.

The fact that she is not willing to discuss that problem with you is totally unfair of her considering ye are married with kids.
Let things calm down and once again try and see if you can talk to her reasonably.

I have the suspicion that she's not going to listen.

Counselling is badly needed, surely she must want to give it a go before totally giving up on the relationship.

Maybe, maybe not. Look at it from her side. It sounds like she has lost the urge to sleep with him and lost a lot of respect for him(the latter often feeds the former), she has her kids and if it goes to a divorce, she gets to keep the kids and mostly likely the house too and gets to somewhat start over again. It's pretty much a win win situation for her when you get cynical about it. Not so good for him though.

milkerman

Aw Jesus Guys,
I feel really sorry for you. Sex is an integral part of a normal marriage and an integral part of life for a normal person.
I reckon that when sex stops within a relationship it can be taken as the first indication that there is no relationship anymore. Also, women need sex as much as any man and if she is not doing it with a husband she may be doing it with someone else.
No sex in a marriage is grounds for seperation.
This is a crap time for this to surface in your marriages but there is no such thing as a good time.
I am told there is life after seperation, even if men tend to be badly shafted in the process.
Best Wishes.

Amazotheamazing

At least you've done the smart thing and have taken legal advice. Who knows if your marriage is over, but if it is, be sure you have a solicitor you trust completely to give you good advice, and if you get good advice, follow it.

LegacyUser

Have to say reading these posts rings bells in my life.Me and partner are 25+
After my wife and I had our 2 kids things went pear shaped and we got some counselling which helped us on our communication skills.
Fast forward a few years and things are bad again.
Its almost like the ageing affect. There isn't a a big bang but the detoriation is gradual.

Its at the stage now where she sleeps in a different room to me(for the past 2 yrs). She says that its because I'm too "hot"(as in terms of heat) to sleep beside-Any one ever hear of such a thing?Didn't seem to be a problem for the first 5yrs!
Its a good year if things happen twice a year...makes me said to think that when we first met we were at it 6/7 times a day. Thats 3 years worth now!
If we have an argument within a few days of said act then she will say that this is why she doesn't want to have relations as I start been mean to her afterwards....this is certainly not the truth and I wonder is she using it to reinforce her own beliefs.
I do feel rejected but I have self esteem issues I see that its all my fault.
Its hard to know what to do. I don't believe that counselling would help any more. My life is sort of in auto pilot at the moment. Just not sure what path its on.
I know it will continue on for the forseeable future like this as I've tried to raise issues before but to no avail. Perhaps there will be some straw that breaks the back and causes things to change.

LegacyUser

eye opener wrote: »

I am 30 year old female. Reading these posts is such an eye opener.

What I’ve realised, is how can you have a happy marriage when you have no sex life - its one of the most important ingredients to a healthy relationship. It’s a natural instinct to feel loved and wanted. I understand that women loose their sex drive occasionally but for months on end....this is crazy. I almost left my long term partner last year over a similar problem, his sex drive was non existent for eight months. Even though most other aspects of our relationship were fine, the lack of sex was having a knock on effect on other things. I was becoming resentful and felt unwanted. After much serious discussion, he made the effort and things returned to normal. Actually, we’ve become closer as a result.

OP relationships are a two way thing. You obviously take care of your responsibilities, you are there for your family and so on. Your wife is being completely unreasonable, especially after you have discussed it on numerous occasions. I would demand that she attends counselling - if not, leave. As other posters have said, children are sensitive to the atmosphere in the house. How can you be a content parent, unless you feel happy and fulfilled in your relationship. Your wife is denying you that happiness. You are certainly not being unreasonable and you are not in the wrong, she is being selfish - these are just lame excuses on her behalf. By insisting she attends counselling, you are leaving the ball in her court - it is up to her whether she wants to salvage the marriage

me too, roughly the same age, and female and I find all the posts by men here really disturbing.
If the married men here are getting these sort of reactions in married life and their women are refusing to address the situation, I hesitate to say it but, it would explain a lot about the level of infidelity among married couples.

I realise that hormones and pregnancy etc play a huge part in libido, including being totally shattered a lot, but I am really very surprised at how some women would miss out on the level of intimacy which sex can provide in a relationship, not even giving it a chance to recover the "lost libido".

I think men get bad press when it comes to sex.
And this is where the issue becomes lost in translation.
I think perhaps men also require the intimacy that comes with sex to consolidate a relationship especially in a family unit.
But its misconstrued by women because its not communicated in the same way.
Women have a preconceived notion that its "just sex" to men whereas sometimes its not. It's just that they don't talk about the intimacy of it as much as we harp on about it!
They feel the intimacy and need it in a relationship, but just don't go on about it and approach sex in pretty much the same way they always did... i.e. "fancy a shag"?

I think its just lost in translation.
Perhaps a simple statement.. "I just don't feel I'm getting a the level of intimacy to bond with you, thats why I want to sleep with you" ... might do the trick