News Talk Outside Broadcasts

Dub13

Does anybody else think the the sound is crap when Newstalk do Outside Broadcasts...?I was listening to the moncrief show today and the sound was so bad I was contemplation turning it off.It was so bad that they were doing an interview with some chap on the phone and he sounded 100 times better.

On a side note why do they do Outside Broadcasts as there seems to be no point to it,radio is great to listen to but I could never see myself going to an Outside Broadcast.

mike65

Quite so, was this thier Grafton Street beano or is that to come?

Mike.

Dub13

Yea they were in bewleys grafton street today,the sound was terrible.

CrowdedHouse

Dub13 wrote: »

Does anybody else think the the sound is crap when Newstalk do Outside Broadcasts...?I was listening to the moncrief show today and the sound was so bad I was contemplation turning it off.

Yep it was crap and I did turn it off,listened to Duffy for about 30 seconds and then put on the CD

bbability

Its pure rubbish. They need to invest in a proper OB Unit.

More Music

You don't need an OB Unit to have a good sounding OB. It's the method of linking back to base that's the problem. They're using either a standard phone line with something like a Comrex or an ISDN line on a G722 codec. If they invested €300,000 on a new OBU it would still sound ****e if they use a crap link.

If they are using ISDN (which a national station should) they should just stick it on Layer 2 mono and it will sound almost perfect. It doesn't make any sense, unless of course a supplier/contractor is pushing a product on them.

connundrum

More Music wrote: »

You don't need an OB Unit to have a good sounding OB. It's the method of linking back to base that's the problem. They're using either a standard phone line with something like a Comrex or an ISDN line on a G722 codec. If they invested €300,000 on a new OBU it would still sound ****e if they use a crap link.

If they are using ISDN (which a national station should) they should just stick it on Layer 2 mono and it will sound almost perfect. It doesn't make any sense, unless of course a supplier/contractor is pushing a product on them.

QFT.

I've been with an OB unit for Midlands Radio and the sound from the back of the caravan was near perfect. Investment in the link is important.

As regards what does doing OB's achieve.. well I suppose its creating a presence. And getting the word around that Newstalk wants to be part of the community bla bla bla.

I personally think that they are failing in their venture and the sound quality would be a major reason for that.

Scoobydoobydoo

You are right, the sound is really bad when they are out and about and I never bother listening in unless they're in the studio.

mike65

Listening to Ryan Tubriddy via an OB right now and its studio quality (in mono).

Mike.

Dub13

Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »

You are right, the sound is really bad when they are out and about and I never bother listening in unless they're in the studio.

Surly they have 'forces groups' or something and can pick up on this opinion.

Scoobydoobydoo

Dub13 wrote: »

Surly they have 'forces groups' or something and can pick up on this opinion.

I know, you'd imagine they would.

dathi1

all they need is a 3g laptop card with shoucast running an ACC+ encoder at 48kbps. 7 second delay by the time it hits the airways but it sounds perfect. I'm available for any tech assistance.

deecom

Radio would never use a mobile 3g connection! Cell could go down, too many people start to use the cell, the list is endless! :eek: Isdn or forget about it. Have no idea what they are using, but i agree sounds brutal!

Dub13

If its making people turn off which it is then they should stop doing OBs on till they fix it.

Greenman

What about hiring a sat link when needed. Even something like "brought to you by satlink.ie" or whatever to cut the costs. I always wondered why NT never mention they are on $ky channel 210???

Dub13

They are at it again,the Right Hook has an OB from Galway today.In fairness this sounds a bit better but still not up to the required standard.

bbability

Its Horse Minure as George would say. Terrible quality and ruining what is a very good concept for his show. I don't think it would cost that much to put right. Plenty of radio stations over the years have been broadcasting from every nook and cranny. Isn't Dempsey broadcasting from some ski resort. I'm sure his show sounds ok so there's no excuse for George's...

AdrianC

George will be broadcasting from newyork next week - wonder what the sound will be like?

Dub13

AdrianC wrote: »

George will be broadcasting from newyork next week - wonder what the sound will be like?

Probably good as they will be using someone else's equipment.

Radio Mad.

Dub13 wrote: »

Probably good as they will be using someone else's equipment.

Yeah, you can be guaranteed it will be a whole lot better. It seems a shame they have to leave the country and travel across the Atlantic in order to get it right.

Newstalk boss Denis O'Brien gave away some award to a college (I think) during the Right Hook outside broadcast. It's a pity he didn't award his own engineers a proper OB unit while he was at it.

Dub13

How much would a good OB unit cost...?

Dub13

They were at it again yesterday,its doing my head in.The right Hook came live from a new hibernian shop,don't ask me why people would want to listen to a radio program coming live from a insurance shop.Newstalk must be getting some kick back for it.I can understand a hotel on the Eve of a big ruby game but a insurance shop..?

Any way it sounded like Hook was doing the show from a corner in a hall,I could only listen for 20min before I had to turn it off.Its very annoying as it was so low I had the volume up then the ads would come on and I would have to turn it down again.Crazy,whatever kick back they are getting from these 'outside broadcasts' I hope its worth the listener's they are losing.

End of rant.

Dub13

Turned off the Breakfast show this morrning as it was so bad,I could only hack 5 min of it.

connundrum

Were they coming from Google?

Seriously, if they insist on doing x number of OB's per year, then they should invest €xxx in the venture and do it properly.

If the majority of local stations can afford the basics, then Newstalk should well be able to afford it.

cuckoo

Dub13 wrote: »

Turned off the Breakfast show this morrning as it was so bad,I could only hack 5 min of it.

+1. All the talk of 'googlers' and 'nooglers' wasn't very interesting, and while it was nice to hear that Claire had a lovely smoothie, it sounded like they were sitting in the corner of a large school hall.

It was funny though how there was a huge gap after all the googlers' boss was introed, and when he'd finished his spiel, and the syncophatic clapping of the audience (googlience?).

Dub13

I want to hear good debate in the morning (and not at 100mph),I don't care were it comes from but why Google or a shop window on Grafton Street...?

connundrum

The Right Hook will be coming from a hotel in Limerick this avo, and while I do actually want to tune in, I fear I'll only be sticking around for 10 minutes until I get p'd off with the sound.

mike65

Well?

Mike.

Hissing Sideban

Dub13 wrote: »

Does anybody else think the the sound is crap when Newstalk do Outside Broadcasts...?.<>.....On a side note why do they do Outside Broadcasts as there seems to be no point to it,radio is great to listen to but I could never see myself going to an Outside Broadcast.

Why do they do OB''s? Money. Many stations earn a significant portion of their revenue from OB's, and even unpaid ones are often part of a promotional deal. As to linking OB's this is always difficault. ISDN still is the answer but it is getting a bit harder to get ISDN lines especially installed for an OB, not to mention the added cost. You can use a Tieline /Comrex typoe unit with an ordiunary phone line and get quite acceptable mono voice audio, but the line has to be perfect. If it runs through an internal switchboard, you can usually forget it! MaAny places are using all their phone lines for things like credit card machines and general business, so there may not be much choice in what line to use. Internet links are unpredicatable, and so are GSM mobile phone links.
BTS also have their satellite system, which is based on satellite IP technology, so I wonder why they don't use that for Newstalk - maybe there was no space to set up the dish?

More Music

A temporary ISDN line is around €450. Surely they are getting at least €3,000 to broadcast Hook for 2.5 hours from an OB.

godfrey

my information is that €ir-con are not interested in providing ISDN for OB's anymore, unless it's for RTÉ (and their contractors in TV) OB's . my guess (that's all it is) would be that their strategy for Broadband is to discourage the use of ISDN, which by the way, they STILL market as a 'hi-speed' internet access product! it requires work at the exchange and also an engineer to install & commission the line, which is not a good use of the engineers time as it's just a once-off use with calls paid for just one day. of course as well as the installation fee, you also must sign a 12 month contract, ie: you must pay for a full years line rental. we're now looking at around €1000 for an OB link. RTÉ will only do this if it's a location they will use several times a year, eg: a sports ground. as an aside, ISDN is only available within a few km of the nearest enabled exchange (which I know is irrelevant to the Newstalk examples above).

as for satellite uplinks, as far as I'm aware there is no regular user of radio sat links in this country (didn't one of the Dublin commercials use it for a while?) other than RTÉ, who now have 2 brand spanking new units built in-house. this makes very good financial sense for them as they have a leased space on a satellite which carries both radio and tv sng feeds. this means they can use as much or as little of that capacity at will all year round. it also avoids the expense of ISDN for single-use locations and where ISDN just isn't available.

hope this is helpful to those of you who stuck with me all the way to the end!!

g

[edit]

I overlooked the skills required but I don't know what their engineering staff stretches to in terms of being able to leave base to do OB's. I doubt they have experienced OB staff, but I don't know that for a fact.

Dub13

Interesting post.

All I can add is if its not financially viable to do a proper OB Newstalk should stop doing them as they are losing listener's because of it.

More Music

Godfrey,

eircom can and still do provide ISDN and standard phone lines for OB purposes. To say they only provide them for RTE (or their contractors) is wrong.

They will provide lines on a temporary basis and there is no need for a 12 month contract. It does require a bit of work from an eircom engineer, but that's what they do. The engineer will even return to a location to reclaim the socket and wiring if left in temporary state (i.e. run through a ceiling void to a shop window).

€1,000 is way off the mark for ISDN. Depending on the work required to drop the line I pay between €450 - €600 for a temporary ISDN line. The cost is the same if I keep it for a year, but then I pay monthly rental as well. I always cease the line unless I'm back in the venue again.

98FM in Dublin had (think they still do) a mobile satellite uplink, but they are not the only ones. Radio Kerry also has a satellite uplink on their OB unit.

I needed a temporary line at a club football ground a few years ago. There weren’t any lines coming in so the eircom lads took a line from the nearest pole. They had to install 3 poles to bring the line over and they dropped it right on sideline for me.

godfrey

I stand corrected on a few points obviously - no harm in that!
I should have said I was told by some guys with commercial stations that they said they found it very difficult to get ISDN from €ir-con, and I have no reason to doubt them.

as for the cost, including the years rental which I mentioned it's not far from a grand in some cases, depending on the work involved for the engineer. that's been my experience. I don't claim to know what you pay (More Music).

yes the engineers will bring the line to you, and me and everyone else - that's also their job

theyre a good bunch of lads for sure, we'd all be fekked without them. it's their managers and more often sales people who are making it difficult. there's no doubt that a good working relationship with the local lads can be essential for OB's. rain has a wonderful way of finding itself into lines on show day. no point in calling sales on a Sunday morning!!

by the way, those lads at GVD are great too. don't know if any of you have come across them.

g

More Music

Some stations are notorious for not paying up, it can come back to bite them in the ass when they need something!

The trick is not to deal with call centres. You need a good account manager to handle your line requests and as you say you really need the local contact who knows what is required. Also very handy to have when you arrive to find that the line dead.

AFAIK, not everybody has access to an account manager, you need to be sending a bit of money their way.

GVD... never heard of them, tried Google and came up with German Verification Day! More details please.

I'm not involved in an eircom love in, but they are good guys for the most part and like radio people can come in for a lot stick.

Dub13

One of the lads from off the ball was doing the show from Zurich tonight,he was better quality then when he was in the studio you would never have know one of the lads was in Dublin and the other Zurich.The said something about UEFA giving them a great isdn line,so it can be done.

Dub13

Its got to the stage now were if I turn on a Newstalk show and its an Outside Broadcast I just switch something else on.I don't need to listen to sub standard sound.

They were at it again today,terrible terrible sound.

miju

indeed not only was the sound pretty dodgy but I counted at least 4 times during Moncrief that they had "dead air" and ended up having to go to ads.

Think in the end they ended up getting your man from Off The Ball to cover for 15 mins

CDfm

If suzanne byrne was doin the news id listen - it would be lovely and put up with the interuptions