Ghost Buses

TommyShannon

I had to make an early morning trip from Dublin to Westport last Sunday morning, I decided to use Iarnród Éireann's 0840 train from Heuston Station. Since I live in Ballyfermot I looked up the Dublin Bus timetables to find that the first 79 bus to Heuston was not scheduled to leave Ballyfermot until 0955. The first 78A leaving Quarryvale was at 0820, Therefore I had to get a taxi.

I went out onto the Ballyfermot Road to hail a taxi at 0815 and what did I see departing from my local bus stop, a 79 in full service with a good few passengers. Since I missed this UNscheduled bus, I had to fork out €9 for a taxi! Needless to say I was disgusted!

Why do Dublin Bus run services that are not on the timetable? 0955 is a disgraceful time for a first bus on a Sunday, and I'm sure many punters like myself were unaware of such Ghost Buses running, and that they too fork out for taxis that are not needed. Anybody got simular experiences, or maybe even an explanation?

meanmachine3

all sunday services are normal ones, i.e. there shouldn't be any ghost buses running on that day. the only thing i can think of is that they may have started putting on the extra buses for the christmas.

TommyShannon

According to dublinbus.ie they are running an extra 79A departure at 0900 this Sunday and next Sunday for Christmas. Even if this was the case last Sunday, it still wouldn't explain a 79 bus on the Ballyfermot Road at 0815.

MiniD

Did you ring Conyngham Road to enquire?

It's madness that we don't have an earlier bus service. You only have to look at the crowds on the first bus of the morning on the major routes. If there are ghost buses, they should be advertised in the timetable.

Ham'nd'egger

Ghost buses are not advertised as they are not regular workings. That said, there can be early runnings on occasions; just don't depend on them.

On the 79, over on the bus forums, the word is is that it is one of the worst routes timetable wise and can't be trusted.

Wishbone Ash

My area has a 'ghost bus' each morning at around 5am. I always presumed it was to bring DB drivers to work. It's not on the timetable but will pick up any passengers en route. Usually extra friendly service also!

shltter

MiniD wrote: »

Did you ring Conyngham Road to enquire?

It's madness that we don't have an earlier bus service. You only have to look at the crowds on the first bus of the morning on the major routes. If there are ghost buses, they should be advertised in the timetable.

There is only demand for an earlier bus service on Sundays a couple of sundays out of the year the other 49 or 50 sundays you drive around empty till at least noon. Thats my experience anyway.

On routes where there is demand like the 747 there is an early morning Sunday service all year round.

Also ghost bus services don't follow a normal route they tend to be across multiple routes which is why i imagine they do not advertise them its not a 79 or a 79a or a 78 or a 76 its a bit of everything.

For anyone interested in Ghostbus services the best way to find out is to ring the local garage and they will direct you as to locations and times

Heart

Except on Routes 16A and 41 where the current early morning services can't cope with the demand.

However, the proposed higher frequency 746 which never came to be was supposed to help this...

H

Mimikyu

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Ham'nd'egger

Solitaryman666 wrote: »

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Earliest 27 leaves Clare Hall at 5:15AM, earliest 84 leaves Newcastle at the same time. The 41 leaves town at 5AM but the first city bound 33 beats them all, 4:50AM from Balbriggan!

Wishbone Ash

Solitaryman666 wrote: »

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Hamndegger wrote: »

but the first city bound 33 beats them all, 4:50AM from Balbriggan!

That's the one! the good old 33 but I'm a bit confused now because it seems to be on the timetable!

Years ago it seemed to be a "word of mouth" service - or is my mind playing tricks!

monument

Hamndegger wrote: »

On the 79, over on the bus forums, the word is is that it is one of the worst routes timetable wise and can't be trusted.

You can say that again. It can't be trusted at any time of the day as far as I can make out.

TommyShannon

I'll pop an E-mail into Dublin Bus today regarding this. The way it is even if the bus doesn't show up I can always stick my hand out for a taxi anyway so I've nothing to lose regardless.

I'd have to disagree on the need for buses before 9am on Sunday mornings. The Sunday 0820 78A service always has around 30 to 40 punters on it. I'd compare this with inbound loadings between 8pm and midnight when there's a 10 min frequency and buses only have around 20 people on them. One point about the Airlink 747/8, it should be running from 4am. Dublin Airport is at it busiest between 5 and 7am, with almost no public transport to it except the Aircoach.

munchkin_utd

The airport situation I would agree is a joke.

Virtually the entire fleet of Aer Lingus and Ryanair based at Dublin airport departs on their first trip of the day between 6.30 and 8am, and Sunday is no different.
For example there are 45 flights this morning between 6 and 8 with the vast majority aerlingus/ Ryanair (you could presume that these expensive planes dont sit idly on Sunday morning so the frequency of the timetable on sunday would be approx the same as a weekday).

With a rough average of 150 per plane, thats 6750 people needing to be AT the airport on a sunday morning BEFORE 6am for checkin. The 100s of workers would need to be at the airport even earlier.
But of course the first Dublin Bus 747 on a Sunday morning doesnt leave town until 7.30.
Timetable Muppetery of the highest order if you ask me.

marmajam

Everyone knows ghost buses don't really exist.

Ham'nd'egger

munchkin_utd wrote: »

With a rough average of 150 per plane, thats 6750 people needing to be AT the airport on a sunday morning BEFORE 6am for checkin. The 100s of workers would need to be at the airport even earlier.
But of course the first Dublin Bus 747 on a Sunday morning doesnt leave town until 7.30.
Timetable Muppetery of the highest order if you ask me.

While I agree that there ought to be earlier bus services to the Airport, you should bear in mind that Dublin Bus may not have a licence to run a service to the Airport at this hour and are not allowed to do as such. Also, how do people get to the service if they live off the routes in question?

munchkin_utd

Hamndegger wrote: »

While I agree that there ought to be earlier bus services to the Airport, you should bear in mind that Dublin Bus may not have a licence to run a service to the Airport at this hour and are not allowed to do as such. Also, how do people get to the service if they live off the routes in question?

Dublin bus run a service at 0515 on a normal weekday from O Connell st. so quite likely theres nothing in their terms of service to stop them from doing the same on a Sunday.

If you dont happen to live on the route to the airport then fair enough, an early service wouldnt be of a massive use to you. If though you were a tourist staying in the City Centre where most of Dublins hotels are, then a service would be of use to you.

I'll admit theres an Aircoach service 24hours BUT I have in the past tried to get info on exactly when their coaches leave the city centre in the early morning and their only answer is that a bus goes every hour or so.
So our fabulous private bus service is just as (un)predictable as those ghost busses down in Ballyfermot!!!
And similarily, you would want to have the taxi fare ready in your pocket in case you are left stranded with no bus!

John R

munchkin_utd wrote: »

With a rough average of 150 per plane, thats 6750 people needing to be AT the airport on a sunday morning BEFORE 6am for checkin. The 100s of workers would need to be at the airport even earlier.
But of course the first Dublin Bus 747 on a Sunday morning doesnt leave town until 7.30.
Timetable Muppetery of the highest order if you ask me.

Some years ago Dublin Bus tried to run a 24hr service on the 746 DunLaoghaire-City-Airport route but they could not get a licence approval from the DOT so the plan was eventually dropped.

This was proposed as a regular stopping service and if successful could have been the start of a full round-the-clock network.

Ham'nd'egger

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Dublin bus run a service at 0515 on a normal weekday from O Connell st. so quite likely theres nothing in their terms of service to stop them from doing the same on a Sunday.
!

I don't know. Licences will define service frequency; Dublin Bus route may not have been given permission to operate same.

John R

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Dublin bus run a service at 0515 on a normal weekday from O Connell st. so quite likely theres nothing in their terms of service to stop them from doing the same on a Sunday.

To quote the fat príck* from those bank adverts "It doesn't work like that".

The rules were quietly changed some years ago so that now ANY alteration to CIE timetables have to be submitted to the DOT for approval at which point any private operator (actual or proposed) can cry foul and complain that the big bad CIE bullys are going to steal their lunch money by taking away their customers.

After months or years (or when political pressure is applied days) of careful deliberation over these changes where the part of the (so-called ancient and outdated) legislation that highlights the need for the public interest to be the primary concern of the DOT having been completely ignored in favour of profits for private concerns they then decree their decision.


*IMO an excellent analogy of the craven arrogance and blatant disregard of the needs of their customers shown by the senior officials in the DOT.

munchkin_utd

so, keeping this on topic of ghost busses, if Dublin bus were to state those early "ghost" busses in their timetable they might get busted for operating a "scheduled" service that they werent given approval to operate.

Now that ye mention licence terms also including time information, it reminds me that the 7pm Bus on a Sunday from Cavan to Dublin no longer runs due to a private operator claiming that they are the only ones that should be allowed to operate a "seven o clock Sunday evening service".

John R

munchkin_utd wrote: »

so, keeping this on topic of ghost busses, if Dublin bus were to state those early "ghost" busses in their timetable they might get busted for operating a "scheduled" service that they werent given approval to operate.

In the case of the ghosts I don't think the licencing would be an issue as they have all been run for a very long time.

Some of them are included in the timetables to a degree although I don't think any of them have their full routing described. Some of them are included in timetables they barely share any routing with at all.

I only know the times and routes of a handful of them mself. I seem to remember a thread on Garaiste some time ago that had a good list of them.

Just to confuse the topic further there are also some ghost buses that are only run for staff members that will not take passengers.

It is simple inconsistencies in their published information like this that DB should be sorting out. The printed timetable could easily have an appendix listing all these non-standard early morning runs, their times and full routing. It would take a few hours to do and a few extra pages in the timetable.

If my local one is anything to go by these are used far more these days by passengers than by bus drivers and that is only through people finding out about them through word of mouth.

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Now that ye mention licence terms also including time information, it reminds me that the 7pm Bus on a Sunday from Cavan to Dublin no longer runs due to a private operator claiming that they are the only ones that should be allowed to operate a "seven o clock Sunday evening service".

There has been an issue with the Cavan-Dublin route for some time. When BE started their hourly service on the route an objection was put in about the 06.00 weekday departure. For a few years the 06.00 left Cavan depot without picking anyone up and went to Virginia empty only picking-up from there onwards.

I don't know if it is the same operator but what I do recall was that they only ran one service a day so anyone wanting to be in Dublin before 09.00 and to return earlier or later than the private coach (which left at 4pm AFAIR) needed to buy two singles on each operator rather than cheaper returns or commuter tickets.

TommyShannon

It's amazing how much Ireland has fooked itself up with red tape. God only knows how long it will take Dublin to have a 24hr oyster card like service. I might ask Paddy Power for odds, although I'd probably have to fill out a few forms to put on a bet like that.

Wishbone Ash

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I'll admit theres an Aircoach service 24hours BUT I have in the past tried to get info on exactly when their coaches leave the city centre in the early morning and their only answer is that a bus goes every hour or so.
So our fabulous private bus service is just as (un)predictable as those ghost busses down in Ballyfermot!!!

Simple explanation:

Aircoach services operate in a continuous loop. The begin at the airport and end at the airport. They do not "leave" the city centre as such. It is merely another stop on their loop. They are timed from the airport which explains why you regularly see two together heading for the airport as one may have made time over the other.