Research help

Hivemind187

Hi guys,

I'm looking for a link or reference page for any independant ballistics information on 9mm and .22 LR ammunition, specifically muzzle energy. Government would be best but I'll take what I can get.

Its for citation in a research paper I am working on.

Thanks in advance.

Rew

Muzzle velocity is dependant on bullet weight, grains of propelent used and barrel length. So super sonic 22lr fired from a pistol wont achive super sonic speeds where as the same round form a rifle will. Google is your friend. I'll have a look on my ammo boxes when I get home. The .223 boxes list typical values not sure about .22lr or 9mm though.

Hivemind187

Cheers Rew,

Actually, if you can find the manufacturers name I should be able to track down their ballistic statements. Otherwise the stated average spped/energy would be a great help.

I just need a couple of examples that I can provide citation for.

revan23

go to the manufacturers websites. they usualy have good info. for example -

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/

its pretty handy, just select the ammo from the drop down lists. 9mm luger info is right down the bottom in the handgun charts.

looks like muzzle energy range for 9mm is about 320 - 340 ft-lbs

here's another site with pretty detailed ballistics -

http://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics/

chem

At the back of any Gun digest there is a list of all calibers ther bullet weight in grains, there muzzle velocity (fps), Energy (ft,lbs) and there fall over distance from 100yds to 400. Also gives info as to the shape of the bullet. Eg: hollow point etc.

9 entrys for 9mm ammo and 21 for .22 ammo.

No name brands just gen info.

I have one here dating from 1994 if it of any use to you you can have it! Just PM me.

Hivemind187

Cheers guys.

Damn you're fast.

I found what I needed on the Remmington homepage regarding rifle rounds and 9mm on the Deral. Thanks!

IRLConor

Here's the info for Lapua , Eley target shooting, Eley hunting, RWS and CCI .22LR ammunition if you need any more.

Hivemind187

Cheers guys. Lapua came in very handy!

IRLConor

Out of curiosity, what field is the research in?

Can we get a link to the paper when it's done?

Hivemind187

Sure can but I doubt it would be of much interest to you guys.

It forms part of a white-paper report on Airsoft equipment - something many shooters have strong feelings about.

The information I used was Lapua .22LR, American Eagle 9mm and Remington 6mm as comparissons to the 6mm 0.2g Airsoft variety commonly seen. I know many shooters have strong feelings about the subject of Airsoft so I wont get into any of the specifics suffice to say that no other mention of real shooting is mentioned nor is any reference of opinion on shooting given in any way. Its strictly a scientific, statistical comparisson.

Thanks for your help guys.

And Rew, I might just take that idea you gave me on Saturday.

IRLConor

Sounds interesting.

Leupold

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Sure can but I doubt it would be of much interest to you guys.

Its strictly a scientific, statistical comparisson.

Thanks for your help guys.

There is no such thing as a " scientific, statistical comparisson" when it comes to either of our sports Hivemind, If you continue with the prevalent arguments coming from the IAS, you intend to use the statistics to demonstrate why airsoft is different from "real steel" and hence why you should be treated differently from a legal perspective. I have pointed out before why this is a head in the sand approach, based on the UK experience, and why you should be seeking closer association with the othet shooting sports, not trying to distance yourself from them. After all, airsofters like airsoft because of the gun shaped objects you get to play with, despite all of your arguments to the contrary. Why don't you play airsoft hurley?

Cuddlesworth

Leupold wrote: »

There is no such thing as a " scientific, statistical comparisson" when it comes to either of our sports Hivemind, If you continue with the prevalent arguments coming from the IAS, you intend to use the statistics to demonstrate why airsoft is different from "real steel" and hence why you should be treated differently from a legal perspective. I have pointed out before why this is a head in the sand approach, based on the UK experience, and why you should be seeking closer association with the othet shooting sports, not trying to distance yourself from them. After all, airsofters like airsoft because of the gun shaped objects you get to play with, despite all of your arguments to the contrary. Why don't you play airsoft hurley?

Guns kill, Airsoft devices don't.

To argue the otherside of the point - I don't particulary want to be associated with a sport where people run around and shoot one another, it goes against every safety aspect of target shooting that I have learned.

Cuddlesworth

Deleted User wrote: »

To argue the otherside of the point - I don't particulary want to be associated with a 'sport' where people run around and shoot one another, it goes against every safety aspect of target shooting that I have learned.

Exactly, even though there are similaritys the differences are too vast.

Hivemind187

Apologies to the shooters. I should have realised that there would be some people who find it difficult to separate topics online - we suffer the same problems in real life.

My questions and research, as I have said, are not intended to draw arguments of equality between firearms and airsoft nor to imply a relationship between the two. Infact, it was to do entirely the oposite!

The actual reason I was looking for hte information (those of you paying attention would have spotted it already) is the muzzle energy. Airsoft is legally limited to 1 joule whereas 6mm Remington, for example, is 2090+joules of muzzle energy.

It was the comparisson of energy (with which you could draw comparissons with tennis ball machines, a struck golf ball etc) and not of objects.

Again, apologies if this has caused trouble on the shooting forum, it certainly wasnt my intention.

Boston

It is a sport Ian. While not played at the Olympic level its as valid a sport as Irish football or show jumping. So less of the inverted commas, its tactie and low brow.

I'd like to thank all those who have provided useful information here, its much appreciated.

Boston

Boston wrote: »

It is a sport Ian. While not played at the Olympic level its as valid a sport as Irish football or show jumping. So less of the inverted commas, its tactie and low brow.

I'd like to thank all those who have provided useful information here, its much appreciated.

Hot temper moment.

Post edited

Arcto

And thus the argument goes on....and on....and on....


Im ringing Joe Duffy and telling on all of ye.

Hivemind187

I'd like to request this thread be locked since it is only going to decend into an open flame war and foster bad blood between the two communities - of which there seems to be enough already.

Airsoft and shooting are entirely different but there is no reason we cant get along - just at different venues

Leupold

Hivemind187 wrote: »

You are going to feel like a complete fool when you are done ranting. I feel sorry for you.

Whatever happened to reasoned arguments Hivemind. First you ask for both threads to be closed, then you resort to silly insults. I think you got caught out trying to get the" real steel" shooters to help you produce something which could be detrimental to their(and your's, if you only realised it) interests in the longer term.
For the benefit of shooters who have not been involved in airsoft before, they, the airsofters, call proper functioning firearms, "real steel" to distinguish them from airsoft guns. The airsoft community seems intent on arguing that they play a sport which has nothing to do with guns and they should not in any way be viewed as having anything do do with guns. They ignore the fact that the things they use look like guns to both the public and the Government. Please have a look at the airsoft and paintball section of Boards.ie to see the rest of this debate. The thread over there has now been closed as it was getting too close to the bone. This seems to happen to all threads on the airsoft board which approach this topic. I wonder why?

IRLConor

krazy_8s wrote: »

Guns kill, Airsoft devices don't.

Better as:

"Guns can kill, and it's bloody hard to do that with an Airsoft device."

Why can't we all just get along? :rolleyes:

Hivemind187

Leupold. You are really pushing it at this point.

I'm already tired of your speculation about a paper that you have not read nor know a single word of as yet. A reasoned arguement would require at least a passing familiarity with the subject matter but since i havent submitted even a draft copy to the IAA committee (and that Irish Airsoft Association - IAS are a retailer) I cant for the life of me figure out how you have done that.

I asked for both threads to be closed because I am trying to limit the fallout the kind of rambling, aggressive and deliberately antagonistic posts such as yours will inevitbaly cause - but perhaps that is also part of my "grand plan" to undermine shooting.

For the record, I have no problem with shooters. Several of the IAA committee are shooters (clays and target) and many IAA members are involved in shooting and/or the defence forces/Gardai. I repeat THERE IS NO BEEF WITH THE SHOOTERS.

Paranoia is a treatable affliction and I suggest you seek help for it post haste.

I again ask that this thread be closed because it is turning into a flame war and I am liable to lose my temper.

Sparks

Leupold wrote: »

The airsoft community seems intent on arguing that they play a sport which has nothing to do with guns and they should not in any way be viewed as having anything do do with guns.

That'd be because it'd be stupid for them to do otherwise, and complaining about it is simply demonstrating even less understanding of the concept of enlightened self-interest. They play a contact sport. We don't. Their equipment is usually a replica. Ours isn't. There is about zero overlap between the two sports. End of discussion, frankly.

Rew

Airsoft has nothing to do with Target shooting/hunting, same goes for paintball. The airsofters a dead right to distance them selfs from firearms. Im not impressed that some felt the need to drag this thread way off topic and have a go at another sporting group. I know Hivemind187 appricated the help he got that was on topic and has no issue with shooters.