Cost of auto under new VRT rules?

Anan1

At the moment, automatic transmission is a €3,005 option on a BMW 320d. Using the SMMT CO2 checker, from next July a manual 320d will be liable for 20% VRT, whereas an automatic will be in the 28% band. Will this make auto a ca€7,000 option?

Henry Ford III

I reckon so.

unkel

Was wondering about that this morning. Checked your sums and you're on the ball, Anan1

RRP for 320d ES (second row is for auto)

€47.800, VRT 30% = €14,340, RRP ex VRT = €33,460, new VRT 20%, so RRP is €33,460 / (1-0.20) = €41,825

€50.805, VRT 30% = €15,242, RRP ex VRT = €35,564, new VRT 28%, so RRP is €35,564 / (1-0.28) = €49,894

So auto is a €7,569 option :eek:

This has got to have a serious impact on the sale of cars with autoboxes, no?

Just checked and the automatic diesels 520d, 525d and 530d all fall in a higher CO2 band. The automatic petrols 520i, 525i and 530i have nearly identical CO2 figures to the manual equivalents and are all in the same bands

So an automatic diesel seems to produce relatively high levels of CO2? Anybody know why?

E92

Anan1 wrote: »

Using the SMMT CO2 checker, from next July a manual 320d will be liable for 20% VRT, whereas an automatic will be in the 28% band. Will this make auto a ca€7,000 option?

Which is wrong for a brand new model of course.

The 320d manual is 131 g/km which puts it in the 16% VRT category, and the 320d Auto is in the 20% category as befits a car that pollutes 144 g/km.

JoeA3

I think its because the "efficient dynamics" of the BMW engines, doesn't work as well (?) with an auto-box... the engine cannot switch itself off with an auto (not sure why) when stopped in traffic, whereas it can with a manual.

E92

For some reason an Auto box has no effect on g/km on the 325i and 330i and actually improves the CO2 of a 530i yet the diesels are most definately affected by a slushbox. The petrols in general seem to have a limited affect on emissions when a slushbox is fitted compared to the oil burners.

unkel

E92 wrote: »

Which is wrong for a brand new model of course.

The 320d manual is 131 g/km which puts it in the 16% VRT category, and the 320d Auto is in the 20% category as befits a car that pollutes 144 g/km.

I forgot that you mentioned that the CO2 figures on bmw.ie are not updated yet for the efficient dynamics cars

In that case autobox costs an extra €4.6k

So the 320d manual will go down from €47.8k to €39.8k all else being equal. That's some difference!

Owen

Don't forget it will have a knock on effect on all the other options too!

omega man

Will the dealers pass on the full vrt discount? If a bmw diesel goes from 30% to 16% will they pass it on or will they pocket a bit more for themselves?

JoeA3

I posted this in another thread yesterday, but I can see BMW 320D's being the default choice now for aspiring Irish BMW buyers, over the traditional 316... by my calculations, a 320D M-Sport will come down by ~10k, from €61k to €51k ish!
And you'll be able to tax it for the year for €150.

I certainly wouldn't like to have ordered a new one for delivery pre-July, thats for sure.

Gandalf23

omega man wrote: »

Will the dealers pass on the full vrt discount? If a bmw diesel goes from 30% to 16% will they pass it on or will they pocket a bit more for themselves?

Legally they have to pass on the full VRT discount.

I was chatting to a salesman in a high profile BMW dealership in Dublin about an hour ago and he said that "too many people will be watching" for them not to.

Gandalf23

unkel wrote: »

Was wondering about that this morning. Checked your sums and you're on the ball, Anan1

RRP for 320d ES (second row is for auto)

€47.800, VRT 30% = €14,340, RRP ex VRT = €33,460, new VRT 20%, so RRP is €33,460 / (1-0.20) = €41,825

€50.805, VRT 30% = €15,242, RRP ex VRT = €35,564, new VRT 28%, so RRP is €35,564 / (1-0.28) = €49,894

So auto is a €7,569 option :eek:

This has got to have a serious impact on the sale of cars with autoboxes, no?

Just checked and the automatic diesels 520d, 525d and 530d all fall in a higher CO2 band. The automatic petrols 520i, 525i and 530i have nearly identical CO2 figures to the manual equivalents and are all in the same bands

So an automatic diesel seems to produce relatively high levels of CO2? Anybody know why?

Is there any possibility that we can have a sticky showing how to work out VRT please? I have it figured out (I think!) but it is fairly confusing. We could give a few examples for some of the more "popular" cars and questions being asked here over the last few days.

JoeA3

JoeA3 wrote: »

I think its because the "efficient dynamics" of the BMW engines, doesn't work as well (?) with an auto-box... the engine cannot switch itself off with an auto (not sure why) when stopped in traffic, whereas it can with a manual.

It seems to be a trait of all automatics.

For a given car and engine, the automatic will always be slower and produce more C02 than the manual.

I havn't the faintest idea why though

Edit: perhaps not all but just browsing through the car facts at the back of top gear mag it seems the vast majority of them do.

unkel

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Is there any possibility that we can have a sticky showing how to work out VRT please?

I started a sticky on it this morning

Feel free to contribute. I'll condense the important info in my orignal post and later add it to the main charter/ sticky

I've just added a basic calculation...

MarkN

Seems to me that any savings with these new bands might well be undone when you add a few options.

For example, anyone who buys a BMW without leather is mad IMO. What will adding that fairly essential extra do to your car price?

Same goes for an auto box, drivers car drivers schmar, you will get very few people to buy a 2.5L+ BMW off you with a manual gearbox unless it's an M3.

As usual, there's a catch. :rolleyes:

Anan1

MarkN wrote: »

Seems to me that any savings with these new bands might well be undone when you add a few options.

For example, anyone who buys a BMW without leather is mad IMO. What will adding that fairly essential extra do to your car price?

If VRT is lowered then option prices fall too. The only exceptions to this rule are options that move the car to a higher VRT bracket, ie automatic transmission.

MarkN

Until someone says 19s use more fuel and in turn CO2, climate control uses more fuel and in turn CO2 and leather adds weight and.... uses more fuel and in turn CO2.

It'll be interesting to see what they try is all I'm saying.

If an auto box, why not something else... !

JoeA3

MarkN wrote: »

Until someone says 19s use more fuel and in turn CO2, climate control uses more fuel and in turn CO2 and leather adds weight and.... uses more fuel and in turn CO2.

It'll be interesting to see what they try is all I'm saying.

If an auto box, why not something else... !

Funnily enough, I've an example of this! A guy I know has a Merc C200 Avantgarde on order. Out of curiosity we checked the CO2 on this car, and its emissions are slightly higher (and in the higher VRT bracket!) than the exact same car and same engine with smaller, 16" alloys (Elegance spec). How can the size of the wheels significantly alter the C02 emissions?
Strange one.

E92

JoeA3 wrote: »

How can the size of the wheels significantly alter the C02 emissions?

Because they usually come with wider tyres but the main reason is increased rolling resistance(i.e. they want to move less than smaller wheels). Its only a few g/km really, but that could be a big difference! An example of where this actually makes a VRT difference is an Opel Vectra 1.9 CDTI where on 16,17 and 18" wheels its at 154 g/km and therefore just in the 20% VRT band, and the same engine on 19" wheels is at 157 g/km and now in the 24% VRT band. Ford used to show different CO2 and mpg data for cars before depending on the wheel size too(don't think they do now).

JoeA3

Seems like there's inconsistencies between manufacturers in how this is measured then. My car came with factory-fitted 18" alloys, yet its emissions are not quoted differently to a standard version of the car.

Henry Ford III

DSG boxes seem to defy this. Marginally lighter on emissions than a similar powered manual.

E92

JoeA3 wrote: »

I posted this in another thread yesterday, but I can see BMW 320D's being the default choice now for aspiring Irish BMW buyers, over the traditional 316... by my calculations, a 320D M-Sport will come down by ~10k, from €61k to €51k ish!
And you'll be able to tax it for the year for €150.

I certainly wouldn't like to have ordered a new one for delivery pre-July, thats for sure.

I would have said the 318i will be the default choice as its a good €1,500 cheaper than the 318d, never mind the 320i/d. The entry price for that will be around €35,600 which is €1,700 less than the entry level 316i and €2,700 less than a 316i ES which is the equivalent model.

Here are the price lists for the 3 series saloon post July 08(rounded to the nearest hundred euro), and their old price for comparision in brackets, all manual gearbox unless stated to the contrary and assuming the VRT saving is passed on in full to the consumer).

318i ES €35,600[€40,650]
318i SE €37,450(only 150 more than a base spec 316i at present)[€42,800]
318i M Sport €41,500[€47,420]
318d ES €37,200(€100 less than an entry 316i at present)[€44,600]
318d SE €39,700[€47,650]
318d M Sport €43,600[€52,270]
320i ES €38,100[€43,550]
320i SE €40,000(FWIW a 316i SE is around the same money now, now would you rather have 122 bhp now or wait half a year and for not a single extra cent get 52 extra bhp?)[€45,700]
320i M Sport €44,030[€50,320]
320d ES €39,900[€47,800]
320d SE €42,375(exactly)[€50,850]
320d M Sport €46,225(exactly)(a shade over what a 320 petrol SE would copst today)[€55,470]
325i SE €48,700(over 2 grand less than a 320d SE today)[€52,850]
325i M Sport €53,800[€58,350]
325d SE €46,900[€53,600]
325d M Sport €51,700(around €3,500 less than 320d M Sport today)[€59,100]
330i SE €56,600(a 325i M Sport would cost you more than that today)[€58,200]
330i M Sport €61,900[€63,700]
330d SE €54,700(a 320d M Sport would cost you more today than this and that has 177 bhp versus this car's 231 bhp))[€59,350]
330d M Sport €61,400[€64,850]
335i SE €63,300[€61,450](the only 3 series engine not to get cheaper cause of the VRT change, on the plus side for anyone buying one, its road tax will be down after July)
335i M Sport €69,000[€66,950]
335d SE(Auto) €64,200(the same money today would buy you the 330d M Sport, and a €1k+ tax bill instead of the €600 this car would attract under the new tax rates)[€66,050]
335d M Sport(Auto) €69,600[€71,550]

Cassiel

Henry Ford III wrote: »

DSG boxes seem to defy this. Marginally lighter on emissions than a similar powered manual.

Excellent. So, would a 2.0 TDI Golf with DSG drop from 30% to 20% VRT?!

Priced a 2004 for import from the UK yesterday and it was the thick end of six grand for the VRT bill.

JoeA3

Cassiel wrote: »

Excellent. So, would a 2.0 TDI Golf with DSG drop from 30% to 20% VRT?!

Priced a 2004 for import from the UK yesterday and it was the thick end of six grand for the VRT bill.

Unfortunately not I'd say! All I know is, the DSG GTI is 1g/km less than the manual (188 versus 189)

EternalSunshine

Henry Ford III wrote: »

DSG boxes seem to defy this. Marginally lighter on emissions than a similar powered manual.

That is what i was also trying to find out.

Does anyone know ( i couldn't find it ) if a VW passat bluemotion DSG automatic is simmilar in C02 to its manual brother which is 136 ?

E92

I don't think there even is a DSG Bluemotion available on sale.

EternalSunshine

E92 wrote: »

I don't think there even is a DSG Bluemotion available on sale.

I am wondering if you are right because after 30 minutes of googling I can't find any mention of an auto box on the passat bluemotion.

(did find out that the polo bluemotion co2 is 99grams ....no aircon or spare tire )

EternalSunshine

EternalSunshine wrote: »

That is what i was also trying to find out.

Does anyone know ( i couldn't find it ) if a VW passat bluemotion DSG automatic is simmilar in C02 to its manual brother which is 136 ?

Buy topgear magazine. They have a list of every new car with all the information bhp torque c02 etc in every issue.