Unhealthy Competition?

goldclubcasino

First off, I want to state that I have no problems with competition, and that it is good for everyone. It forces tournament organizers to improve and gives a better selection for poker players.

I was however, very disappointed when I read the first advert for a new card room here in Letterkenny.

The new card room IMO has just basically plagiarized our tournaments, starting stacks, early bird chip ideas, and our guarantee. Also on much the same nights. My question is- Is this really necessary? Even in a small town such as Letterkenny there is room for 2 sets of weekly touraments, but surely not to flood the town with tournaments that are already available? Our most popular tournaments are definitely the €25 Freeze-Out, and the guaranteed €2,000 €100 Freeze-Out

Let me give you the facts:

The Gold Club Casino and Card room in Letterkenny
:has been open for over 13 months now. The tournaments that we offer are:
20 min blinds throughout most tournaments

Tuesday: €30+€5 W/ 2X €20 Re-Buy -4k stack, 5k rebuy, 6k top up
Wednesday: €25+€5 Freeze-Out -5k stack
Thursday: Free Entry W/ €10 Re-Buy -3k, 4k rebuy, 5k top up
Friday: €100 Freeze-Out -€2,000 Guaranteed -8k stack
Saturday: €50 Freeze-Out -6k stack

And just recently have introduced a new 25% early bird on all tournaments, e.g. on a Friday early bird is 2k chips. We start tournaments at 8:30p.m.

New Card room:
Wed: €25 (+€5??) Double Chance 5k stack
Thursday €100 Freeze-Out €2,000 guaranteed, 8k stack
Friday €25 Double chance 5k stack
Saturday €50 Freeze-Out 6k stack
Sunday €100 Freeze-Out 8k stack
Monday €25 Double Chance 5k stack

The new card room are starting tournaments are 8:30p.m. also. They also have it all over their advertizing sign that early bird chip will be 2k for all tournaments.

On a side note: They are also advertizing that they offer:
Full tilt poker; Vc Poker; Paddy Power Poker; Ladbrokes; Party Poker; Irish Eyes Poker, Poker stars "Internet poker room, all of above sites available, on multi-screen computers".

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but surely if you are an affiliate with any of these sites, than you are with that site only and they won't allow you to affiliate to another??

I understand that they're a business and are looking to do well, but this looks like a really silly way of going about it tbh. Any ideas greatly appreciated... just a bit of a rant I had to get out of my system....

valor

Where is the new card room?

nice1franko

I think somebody's jeallllllllous!!!

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

valor

no **** sherlock, where in Letterkenny is obviously the question

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

goldclubcasino

nice1franko wrote: »

I think somebody's jeallllllllous!!!

Why would you be jealous of someone plagiarizing your work? I'm rather flattered actually.....

Btw valour, it's at the bottom of the town, somewhere around the bottom of the Main Street.

Mellor

As for the OP, their 2k early bird of a 5k stack is terrible. But what is worse is a 20 clock on a €100 tourney, if you want to come out on top get a decent structure.

On a side note: They are also advertizing that they offer:
Full tilt poker; Vc Poker; Paddy Power Poker; Ladbrokes; Party Poker; Irish Eyes Poker, Poker stars "Internet poker room, all of above sites available, on multi-screen computers".

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but surely if you are an affiliate with any of these sites, than you are with that site only and they won't allow you to affiliate to another??

Sounds like you are trying to pick holes in the new club to be honest. Where does it say they are an affiliate to ANY site? All they offer is an internet connection, you get no bonus or special treatment. This is not affilation, the sites don't offer anything to the club, this offer is the same service as other clubs.

Lazare

Offer free coke and hookers. Make sure you seek the latter from outside of Donegal.

RedJoker

Mellor wrote: »

As for the OP, their 2k early bird of a 5k stack is terrible. But what is worse is a 20 clock on a €100 tourney, if you want to come out on top get a decent structure.


Sounds like you are trying to pick holes in the new club to be honest. Where does it say they are an affiliate to ANY site? All they offer is an internet connection, you get no bonus or special treatment. This is not affilation, the sites don't offer anything to the club, this offer is the same service as other clubs.

AFAIK, it's also perfectly acceptable to be an affiliate for as many poker rooms as you want. Lots of sites, e.g. bonuswhores, are affiliates for hundreds.

Duff Man Jr.

As long as they dont rob Glen from ya, you'll be grand.

Ace2007

Lazare wrote: »

Offer free coke and hookers. Make sure you seek the latter from outside of Donegal.

i like ur thinkin connor - gotta get the priorities right...

goldclubcasino

Mellor wrote: »

As for the OP, their 2k early bird of a 5k stack is terrible. But what is worse is a 20 clock on a €100 tourney, if you want to come out on top get a decent structure.


Sounds like you are trying to pick holes in the new club to be honest. Where does it say they are an affiliate to ANY site? All they offer is an internet connection, you get no bonus or special treatment. This is not affilation, the sites don't offer anything to the club, this offer is the same service as other clubs.

It's just that i don't see the point of advertizing these websites, if you are not an affiliate for them. If that was the case why would every other internet/poker room in Ireland actively advertize them also?
It's like holding a €100 poker tournament and advertizing a €1,000,000 prize pool. It's pointless and is more or less a scam to get more people to your touranment. It is not a guarantee and is merely an estimation.

Also to Mellor, we changed our structure before for our 100€ freeze-out to a 6.5k stack with a 30 minute clock, but we had to revert to our original structure because players preferred it. A good poker tournament doesn't always come down to just a good structure; alot of players up here prefer a shorter weekly tournament, especially those that have to wake up early in the morning. Letterkenny isn't full of job-less poker players crazy for the best value game around , but rather players who know what tournament they want to play

Flushdraw

Did somebody mention coke and hookers........

Ace2007

goldclubcasino wrote: »

Also to Mellor, we changed our structure before for our 100€ freeze-out to a 6.5k stack with a 30 minute clock, but we had to revert to our original structure because players preferred it. A good poker tournament doesn't always come down to just a good structure; alot of players up here prefer a shorter weekly tournament, especially those that have to wake up early in the morning.

wake up early on a saturday morning - *shudder*

goldclubcasino

Lazare wrote: »

Offer free coke and hookers. Make sure you seek the latter from outside of Donegal.

I'm not looking for ways to one up the competition lol....

I would like to know what people think though, e.g. flushdraw if another club opened near yours which basically just copied all your ideas i'm sure you wouldn't be happy? People are not stupid though and I think they will realize where the quality lies, with people with a bit of innovation capable of creating ideas, rather than just plagiarizing them.

Ste05

goldclubcasino wrote: »

I'm not looking for ways to one up the competition lol....

I would like to know what people think though, e.g. flushdraw if another club opened near yours which basically just copied all your ideas i'm sure you wouldn't be happy? People are not stupid though and I think they will realize where the quality lies, with people with a bit of innovation capable of creating ideas, rather than just plagiarizing them.

Emmm am I completely missing something here?? In a profitable market that has very little Barriers to entry, people will always copy a profitable idea. You don't own a patent on card rooms, (or do you??) Either way, obviously someone thinks you are making too much money and wants to take some of it, so take it as a compliment IMO

Also I could guarantee they are not an affiliate to any of those sites, all they are saying, surely, is they have Broadband and have installed all those sites on some computers that people can use??

You could buy a few cheap Dells and install even more sites and one-up them.... Although the multi-monitor option is a good one...or do they mean they have more than 1 computer, or that they have computers hooked up to 2 monitors to allow for multitabling while browsing??

mormank

first off. who is posting this thread?? i get that it is gold club cas but is it the td i.e. glen, or is it owner or general manager.......i dont think you will get any favourable responses from this thread as most posters here are dublin based with all the competition in the world. plus it really does sound like an unjustified rant, never looked upon favourably by profitable organizations.........and come on, its not liek ye invented the 100fo with 8k startin stack or whatever. when you say the new place is offering the same tournies, its not like they can invent new tournies, was always gonna be a similar schedule

cooker3

A 20% early bird chip is way too large

Jesus Wept

Early bird chips are idiotic.

Start at a specific time, it's far more appealing.

Mellor

goldclubcasino wrote: »

It's just that i don't see the point of advertizing these websites, if you are not an affiliate for them. If that was the case why would every other internet/poker room in Ireland actively advertize them also?

Because everyother poker room doesn't provide that service of course. The ones that do provide it advertise it. This is really simple and I can't see the sense behind your comments.

It's like holding a €100 poker tournament and advertizing a €1,000,000 prize pool. It's pointless and is more or less a scam to get more people to your touranment. It is not a guarantee and is merely an estimation

That is a silly comparisment, I am 100% certain that every tourney here that offered a €1,000,000 prise pool was certainly providing a guarantee. For smaller amounts such as 10k etc, they are often guarantees, and if not they are clearly labled estimated

kakak1

Nothing like a bit of competition to raise the standards for players.

Only one way to beat competition in any line of business - be better, look after your customers, give them what they want, listen to them, give them value for their money & face up to the competition as a challenge.

No one likes to have new competition but it should get you more focussed.

By starting this thread I'd say you're doing all the wrong things to cope..................... best get the finger out

ianmc38

where are the hookers from? if they're eastern european I'm in.

dannydiamond

The players wanted less starting chips and shorter levels:eek:
My wife's eastern european;)

kakak1

dannydiamond wrote: »

The players wanted less starting chips and shorter levels:eek:
My wife's eastern european;)

you trying to do a deal Danny :D:D:D

Bandara

coke first and then the hookers?

or the other way around?

decisions, decisions

luckylucky

kakak1 wrote: »

you trying to do a deal Danny :D:D:D

lol. is there a reduction for early birds?

ZZR1100

Hammertime wrote: »

coke first and then the hookers?

or the other way around?

decisions, decisions

hookers charge by the hour so coke after is a better structure imo

RoundTower

well if they can take what you do and do it better then more power to them. If they take what you do and don't do it well, people will stay in your place. You have to worry if they start to offer something new and different and better than what you do. Not if they keep doing the same.

Ste - I don't get why you think they aren't also in the affiliate business. If they aren't an affiliate for one or more of those sites, they certainly should be! And of course they can be an affiliate for more than one of the sites, all of the big affiliates are.

Rockfish

The-Rigger wrote: »

Early bird chips are idiotic.

Start at a specific time, it's far more appealing.

Why are they idiotic? I had to satrt offering early bird chips as players were arriving up to an hour late while some players were always on time. Since introducing early birds, 90% of players are there on time as opposed to 50%.

kincsem

Early bird chips .... I'd prefer to see a late entry fee, paid into dealers' tips.

Mellor

Rockfish wrote: »

Why are they idiotic? I had to satrt offering early bird chips as players were arriving up to an hour late while some players were always on time. Since introducing early birds, 90% of players are there on time as opposed to 50%.

They are idiotic because they are 40% of the starting stack in some cases, 20% is the max imo, and thats only on buy-ins 5k and below, early bird over 1k is silly.

Instead of early bird chips you could of limited it to first level or two, after that no late entry.

cooker3

Hammertime wrote: »

coke first and then the hookers?

or the other way around?

decisions, decisions

Just have a round of each

RoundTower

goldclubcasino wrote: »

The Gold Club Casino and Card room in Letterkenny
:has been open for over 13 months now. The tournaments that we offer are:
20 min blinds throughout most tournaments

Tuesday: €30+€5 W/ 2X €20 Re-Buy -4k stack, 5k rebuy, 6k top up
Wednesday: €25+€5 Freeze-Out -5k stack
Thursday: Free Entry W/ €10 Re-Buy -3k, 4k rebuy, 5k top up
Friday: €100 Freeze-Out -€2,000 Guaranteed -8k stack
Saturday: €50 Freeze-Out -6k stack

And just recently have introduced a new 25% early bird on all tournaments, e.g. on a Friday early bird is 2k chips. We start tournaments at 8:30p.m.

New Card room:
Wed: €25 (+€5??) Double Chance 5k stack
Thursday €100 Freeze-Out €2,000 guaranteed, 8k stack
Friday €25 Double chance 5k stack
Saturday €50 Freeze-Out 6k stack
Sunday €100 Freeze-Out 8k stack
Monday €25 Double Chance 5k stack

The new card room are starting tournaments are 8:30p.m. also. They also have it all over their advertizing sign that early bird chip will be 2k for all tournaments.

I only now read the schedules in detail. They have the same buyin as you 2 out of the 6 nights they are open. 8:30 is a reasonable time to start a tournament, and you aren't exactly the first Irish club to introduce "early bird" chips. I think you might be flattering yourselves that they have just copied all of your ideas.

redroar1942

I think the point he(she?) is trying to make is that the town is probably too small for two cardrooms. They have obviously spent time building up the player base in letterkenny and are rightly upset that someone else is trying to cut in on their business. I know you'll all harp on about competition and barriers to entry but the short and curlies of it is that if that if there is'nt enough business for both then both could close down!! At the moment there seem to be too many fly by night cowboys in the poker industry(plenty of solid professional operators too).The sooner the government start to regulate our industry the better off we will be.

Rockfish

Mellor wrote: »

They are idiotic because they are 40% of the starting stack in some cases, 20% is the max imo, and thats only on buy-ins 5k and below, early bird over 1k is silly.

Instead of early bird chips you could of limited it to first level or two, after that no late entry.

Well in our case they are worth 6%. As for limiting entry to first two levels you would have players leaving it to to the end of level 2 before arriving. Yes, i know it's hard to get your head around that but thats what they are like, they dont care about being losing blinds early on but yet will come for the early bird chip.

RoundTower

redroar1942 wrote: »

I think the point he(she?) is trying to make is that the town is probably too small for two cardrooms. They have obviously spent time building up the player base in letterkenny and are rightly upset that someone else is trying to cut in on their business.

I agree, but that's not what he said!

First off, I want to state that I have no problems with competition, and that it is good for everyone.

Ste05

RoundTower wrote: »

Ste - I don't get why you think they aren't also in the affiliate business. If they aren't an affiliate for one or more of those sites, they certainly should be! And of course they can be an affiliate for more than one of the sites, all of the big affiliates are.

It was more the tone of the OP that made me think it wasn't an affiliate agreement. I just got the feeling that the OP used the term in a more of a sponsorship way, then the real meaning of what an "affiliate" to a Poker site is? Hence why I just highlighted that they were probably just offering all those sites for people to play on. But obviously they could easily be an affiliate for all those sites too.

bellysgonnagetu

Rockfish wrote: »

Why are they idiotic? I had to satrt offering early bird chips as players were arriving up to an hour late while some players were always on time. Since introducing early birds, 90% of players are there on time as opposed to 50%.

I agree... a bit of competition will do no harm. And at least we have a bit of choice now eh? Letterkenny has projected population of over 20,000 people so two cardrooms is by no means too much...

Mellor

Rockfish wrote: »

Well in our case they are worth 6%. As for limiting entry to first two levels you would have players leaving it to to the end of level 2 before arriving. Yes, i know it's hard to get your head around that but thats what they are like, they dont care about being losing blinds early on but yet will come for the early bird chip.

The comments with early bird chips being idiotic were in relation the the size of the earlybird chips in the OP, 6% early bird is fine.
Even with early bird chips, the late entry has to be limited to somewhere

DeVore

Theres a number of people who "copied" GJP's structures, doesn't really bother me (nor the other lads). Kinda nice to see things improve tbh... Do I wish they hadn't had the cop on to do so? Sure! But doing anything but taking it as flattery is silly.

There isnt enough room in Letterkenny for 2 card clubs most likely. Be the one that survives is my advice.

Sounds like a good time to be a player in Letterkenny to me!

DeV.

RoundTower

Rockfish wrote: »

Well in our case they are worth 6%. As for limiting entry to first two levels you would have players leaving it to to the end of level 2 before arriving. Yes, i know it's hard to get your head around that but thats what they are like, they dont care about being losing blinds early on but yet will come for the early bird chip.

I never really understood the idea of the early bird chip. Limit entry to the first two levels (or first one level or 3 levels, or whatever) and let them turn up late, their money is in the prizepool anyway and if they are getting blinded away for half an hour the other players should be more than happy.

Hitman Actual

RoundTower wrote: »

I never really understood the idea of the early bird chip. Limit entry to the first two levels (or first one level or 3 levels, or whatever) and let them turn up late, their money is in the prizepool anyway and if they are getting blinded away for half an hour the other players should be more than happy.

The thing is, for the smaller tournaments around the country, players coming late don't arrive early to pay the fee, then leave and come back. They just turn up late, period. So the prize money isn't in the prize pool at all. Not that it makes much difference to what you're saying.

Mellor

lenny_leonard wrote: »

The thing is, for the smaller tournaments around the country, players coming late don't arrive early to pay the fee, then leave and come back. They just turn up late, period. So the prize money isn't in the prize pool at all. Not that it makes much difference to what you're saying.

They still pay when they turn up, so money is still in the prizepool (I don't see how it matters at which stage it enters) and they are at the same disadvantage.

They may be blinded away if they turn up late, but it is easy to take a few chips off them to comp for this.

bellysgonnagetu

anybody care to tell a fella where this gold club place is??

Ste05

bellysgonnagetu wrote: »

anybody care to tell a fella where this gold club place is??

I would if I could, but I can't so I won't.

Hitman Actual

Mellor wrote: »

They still pay when they turn up, so money is still in the prizepool (I don't see how it matters at which stage it enters) and they are at the same disadvantage.

They may be blinded away if they turn up late, but it is easy to take a few chips off them to comp for this.

Yep, misread RT's post.

bellysgonnagetu

and ur tellin me there's coke and hookers there!! ste05 that's cruel...

mormank

the gold club is in the glencar business centre, just behind the glencar inn. not a 5 minute walk from the hospital

bellysgonnagetu

and where's the new card room?

Goodluck2me

I agree wholeheartedly that this isnt good competition. I have rarely been in the casino in LK where there has been more than 50 in it. I was often asked of the viabilities of opening another and I said it was too small to do it. The only place it could be profitable is in the town where you would get the drunks stumbling in, but other than that no.

I dont agree that competition is always good, if it dilutes both places to such a degree that neither gets a decent crowd then its bad overall imo.
Same in dublin you cant get 100 at a tournament anymore, no chance whatsoever in LK.