Handel's Messiah

philologos

I went to see this yesterday in St.Patrick's Cathedral in Dublin and thought that it was a great work. It was my first time seeing it being performed and hearing it the whole way through.

I was just wondering what are other peoples thoughts about this work?

PDN

Jakkass wrote: »

I went to see this yesterday in St.Patrick's Cathedral in Dublin and thought that it was a great work. It was my first time seeing it being performed and hearing it the whole way through.

I was just wondering what are other peoples thoughts about this work?

I think it's great. A lot of the church leaders of the day condemned it as 'vulgar theatre' when was first produced.

Run_to_da_hills

A Masterpiece.

philologos

PDN wrote: »

I think it's great. A lot of the church leaders of the day condemned it as 'vulgar theatre' when was first produced.

I can't see how singing lines of scripture can be seen as "vulgar theatre". The Dean of St.Patrick's took Handel in for the first performance since it was going to be done in a secular hall. He felt that it was unfit to have something so based on scripture sung in a godless place.

Splendour

Went to a performance of this in holy Redeemer church in Bray last year. It was pretty awesome but I was more impressed by the Delirious? concert when they performed in Dublin a couple of weeks ago.
Suppose alot of Christians think contemporary modern Christian music is vulgar just as they did the 'Messiah' in Handels day :rolleyes:

Puck

Splendour wrote: »

Suppose alot of Christians think contemporary modern Christian music is vulgar just as they did the 'Messiah' in Handels day :rolleyes:

Not vulgar, just lame, poorly written rubbish. I haven't heard Delirious? though, so I can't really lump them in with the rubbish.

I've been seeing posters for a local performance of Messiah around town. I might go see it if I can afford to.

Run_to_da_hills

Did they ever preform it in the Pro Catherdral? Its one place I would like to hear it.

Splendour

Puck wrote: »

Not vulgar, just lame, poorly written rubbish. I haven't heard Delirious? though, so I can't really lump them in with the rubbish.

I've been seeing posters for a local performance of Messiah around town. I might go see it if I can afford to.

I play guitar and sing in my church and we sing alot of songs by contemporary artists. Matt Redmond,Graham Kendrick, Derlene Zschech and of course Delirous? to name a few.
For praise and worship it's important to have songs that are easy enough for people to sing and in a language they understand and most importantly songs that are not pitched too high!

Granted some of the older songs hsve the most beautiful lyrics, but if there are Christian bands out there writing Christian songs that appeal to young folk, I say bring it on!

Delirious got into the secular charts a while back one of their songs. Google them on U Tube and listen to 'Majesty'-it's far from lame.

PDN

Splendour wrote: »

I play guitar and sing in my church and we sing alot of songs by contemporary artists. Matt Redmond,Graham Kendrick, Derlene Zschech and of course Delirous? to name a few.
For praise and worship it's important to have songs that are easy enough for people to sing and in a language they understand and most importantly songs that are not pitched too high!

Granted some of the older songs hsve the most beautiful lyrics, but if there are Christian bands out there writing Christian songs that appeal to young folk, I say bring it on!

Delirious got into the secular charts a while back one of their songs. Google them on U Tube and listen to 'Majesty'-it's far from lame.

I play tenor sax in one of our church's worship bands, and some of the newer praise and worship songs are just amazing. There's definitely a new level of creativity around, both lyrically and musically.

PDN

Jakkass wrote: »

I can't see how singing lines of scripture can be seen as "vulgar theatre". The Dean of St.Patrick's took Handel in for the first performance since it was going to be done in a secular hall. He felt that it was unfit to have something so based on scripture sung in a godless place.

I'm pretty sure that isn't the case. Handel's Messiah was first performed in the New Music Hall in Fishamble Street. Two present day institutions claim to occupy the spot of the first performance, the Contemporary Music Centre at 19 Fishamble Street http://cmc.ie/education/explore/visit.html, and the George Frederic Handel Hotel next door http://www.georgefredrickhandelhotel.com/?gclid=CKGFntHnmZACFQNvEgodB09U8g

I think what you're probably thinking of is the fact that the first performance nearly didn't take place because the Dean of St Patrick's was going to forbid any of his musicians to participate since the event was being held in a secular music hall - but he relented at the last minute.

Puck

The problem with a lot of modern songs I think is that they dumb down the lyrics to such an extent that they remove all poetry from the song. I'm not saying that there aren't any good contemporary Christian songs or artists (the excellent Derek Webb springs to mind) but there is a fair bit of rubbish. In my more cynical moments I think song-writers can put out any old rubbish and get away with it by putting a few "Jesus"s in there. Like a Christian theme is some kind of stamp that instantly turns bad songs into good ones. Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky.

Anyway this is all off topic and I apologise. I ended up not going to see Messiah but I would love to see it some day.

Splendour

Puck wrote: »

The problem with a lot of modern songs I think is that they dumb down the lyrics to such an extent that they remove all poetry from the song. I'm not saying that there aren't any good contemporary Christian songs or artists (the excellent Derek Webb springs to mind) but there is a fair bit of rubbish. In my more cynical moments I think song-writers can put out any old rubbish and get away with it by putting a few "Jesus"s in there. Like a Christian theme is some kind of stamp that instantly turns bad songs into good ones. Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky.

Anyway this is all off topic and I apologise. I ended up not going to see Messiah but I would love to see it some day.

Hopefully you will get to see/hear it performed. As a work of art it's amazing and even more poignant if one is a Christian as you realise this talent and work of Handels came from God.

You are right though about some of the lyrics in songs and a lot of these songs are quite cheesy. Given my kids age, they listen to chart music l and it's nice to hear some of these artists singing openly about Jesus.

philologos

PDN wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that isn't the case. Handel's Messiah was first performed in the New Music Hall in Fishamble Street. Two present day institutions claim to occupy the spot of the first performance, the Contemporary Music Centre at 19 Fishamble Street http://cmc.ie/education/explore/visit.html, and the George Frederic Handel Hotel next door http://www.georgefredrickhandelhotel.com/?gclid=CKGFntHnmZACFQNvEgodB09U8g

I think what you're probably thinking of is the fact that the first performance nearly didn't take place because the Dean of St Patrick's was going to forbid any of his musicians to participate since the event was being held in a secular music hall - but he relented at the last minute.

Ouch really? The program says a bit different. I only flicked through mind:
Oh it was done in the "Musick Hall" in Fishamble St... I see performed by their choirs though.

Handel Program wrote:

This work was first performed in Dublin by the choirs of St Patrick's and Christ Church Cathedral in 1742. Under the direction of Jonathan Swift who was Dean of St.Patrick's at the time.

.... Swift strongly objected to members of his Cathedral choir taking part in a musical performance outside the Cathedral, because the sacred biblical texts were to be performed in a public music hall (secular theatre).

... The Dean was eventually pacified probably because the proceeds all went to charity; and the first performance took place a day later than planned.

PDN

Ah, I wasn't aware the Dean in question was Jonathan Swift. A link between Gulliver's Travels and Handel's Messiah - the kind of stuff that makes me love history.

philologos

Yeah, connections are interesting aren't they?

Nerin

beautiful stuff.
i purchased the cd in hmv (or virgin i think) in dublin, part of a whole section dedicated to classical music at low prices.

pinksoir

I was a chorister in St. Patrick's Cathedral for 6 years, and a soloist there for 3 of them. Love Handel's Messiah, we performed it in the Concert Hall one time, along with Christchurch choir and the RTE Symphony Orchestra. Awesome experience (in the non-American sense) for both the choir and the audience.

I would have to say that I much prefer Allegri's Miserere. Most beautiful piece of music ever written. We used to sing it about every third Easter and the year that I was to be part of the solo quartet I had a cold and couldn't sing. Still regret that to this day. Those high C's demanded perfection...

But seriously, if you have never heard the Miserere before, get the King's College Cambridge recording. Moves me to tears even today.