New VRT implications

Yoda

So... last year I paid €511 for 2007 VRT on my 1999 Škoda Octavia, 1896cc Diesel. Actually according to the user's manual it says that it can use biodiesel conforming to some DIN standard that was in effect in 1999.

My question is... How do they work out what are the CO2 emissions of my trusty old car?

Spook_ie

Does it matter seeing as you have already paid the VRT? ( Vehicle Registration Tax ) or are you talking about RFL ( Road Tax )

Yoda

Ah. Whoops. I hate acronyms.

Right. I got that wrong. I was talking about RFL.

Ah well. Despite the error there... are there any RFL implications to this budget?

mike65

There will be, the road tax is going to be changed to the VRT arrangement. From July 2008.

Mike.

Carawaystick

Will there be changes to the annual car tax? Doesn't most of this tax get kept by the co.co where the car is to fund the co.co in lieu of water taxes (cough-cough) and other local services....

Carawaystick

Carawaystick wrote: »

Will there be changes to the annual car tax? Doesn't most of this tax get kept by the co.co where the car is to fund the co.co in lieu of water taxes (cough-cough) and other local services....

Hmmm, I often wondered how the water was paid for?

testicle

Yoda wrote: »

My question is... How do they work out what are the CO2 emissions of my trusty old car?

Skoda tell them.

Fratton Fred

Yoda wrote: »

My question is... How do they work out what are the CO2 emissions of my trusty old car?

Not sure about here, but in the UK the vehicle log book (V5 I think it is called) states the CO2 emissions. This is used to calculate benefit in kind tax for company car drivers. Simple rule of thumb, dont drive a 4x4, an automatic or a petrol engined car.

Deleted User wrote: »

Hmmm, I often wondered how the water was paid for?

It never stops bloody raining, why should anyone pay for it:p

astrofool

My road tax is renewed end of july and I'm in a low CO2 car (second lowest band), will be interesting if I save much, if any on last year.

loyatemu

no - the changes will only be for new cars - existing cars will remain on the existing rates until they are scrapped.

johnf2020

Right guys, here is the way it officially done---i'm in the trade. Loyatemu is right.

Cars already on the road will have the road tax rate changed on the 1st Feb.
Increase is 9.5% if under 2.5 litres and 11% if over 2.5.;---This will not change to new system.----IT DOES NOT CHANGE IN JULY.

New rate of tax from July is only on NEW CARS REGED IN JULY ONWARDS--IT GOES HAD IN HAND WITH NEW VRT.

EXAMPLE.

New 08 model Laguna 1.5dci//currently €313 to tax,Feb up 9.5% to €343.-This car will Permantly be this rate to tax.

Same 08 Laguna 1.5dci Reged in July will only be €150 to tax per year.!!!!!!

So effectively we have a 2 tier road tax system. What is not fair is that any of the low emision cars that are sold in January do not qualify for the cheaper road tax system ,when implemented in in July. What will happen now is that people will now go out and buy the gas guzzlers now,and people buying main stream cars will wait till july. It will now make all the petrol engined cars above 1.4 nearly unsaleable.Anyway from July,most 1.4 petrol cars will rise by about €2000 and most diesels will come down by about the same, amount,or more rendering no/very little price difference which is "very good". What is bad is "Who will want a petrol car" even secondhand.
Minister Cowan did not think this one through---even though he had 4 years to do so.

ardmacha

How will this work for secondhand imports. Will vehicles first registered before July 08 have the old VRT and road tax regime, leading to continuing large numbers of large Mercs etc being imported for years to come?

johnf2020

Funnily enough ,there has been no reference to this situation at all. I will try and find out this information and post it later.

John

johnf2020

ok, here's the official answer.

"The VRT rate applicable to new AND used imported cars registered on or after 1st July 2008 will bedetermined by the CO2 emission rating of the car and will no longer be related to engine size".

I would imagine that a car older than 4 years will have some sort of emission check/NCT before vrt is calculated.

No change to Classic car Status.


So guys

---

import that 5 litre Merc before July.

ardmacha

However a medium powered diesel would be better value after July and possibly much better value than the equivalent used model. Maybe I'll stockpile a few diesel family sized cars up about Jonesborough somewhere until July.

dmeehan

Yoda wrote: »

So... last year I paid €511 for 2007 VRT on my 1999 Škoda Octavia, 1896cc Diesel. Actually according to the user's manual it says that it can use biodiesel conforming to some DIN standard that was in effect in 1999.

My question is... How do they work out what are the CO2 emissions of my trusty old car?

Yoda, i have 1.9 tdi VW golf. i think it has the same (more or less, might be somewhat different for a 99 as my car is 2 years old) engine as the skodas. I checked the VW website for the official emissons and it is 132g/km which put it firmly in the middle of €150 per year car tax band

sweet a drop from €511 to €150 per year

ardmacha

New rate of tax from July is only on NEW CARS REGED IN JULY ONWARDS--IT GOES HAD IN HAND WITH NEW VRT

sweet a drop from €511 to €150 per year

Dmeehan, johnf2020's posting suggests that you will only get a drop if you buy a new car. Of course you could buy an imported 2 year old one.

johnf2020

Thats right

---

Road tax drop only on New cars reged from July,or low emission s/h cars being imported.

CARS ALREADY ON THE ROAD STAY WITH CURRENT RATES + RATE INCREASE FROM FEB

johnf2020

Heres another thought.

Customer A buys new Laguna 1.5 in may 08----pays €343 to tax,for year
Customer B buys new Laguna 1.5 in July 08 pays €150 to tax ,for year.


If Both guys go in at the same time to tax the cars----no guesses for who is pissed off.

If both guys go in at the same time trade them in,,,as a dealer,no guesses for which one I'll give more for!

Also another point which has been overlooked. As the price of new Diesel cars is coming down,it pushes the value of diesel trade ins down also. And as the price of new petrol cars goes up,the value of petrol trade ins also goes down,because everybody wants diesel.

ITS A NO WIN FOR EVERYONE

---

BAR YOU ARE BUYING DIESEL,NEXT JULY,WITH NO TRADE IN OR

---

BUYING A GAS GUZZLER NOW.

Doesn't make sense to penalise current owners of low emission cars, maybe if enough of a stink is kicked up they may make it retrospective (just like the provisional license fiasco).

cdebru

Deleted User wrote: »

Doesn't make sense to penalise current owners of low emission cars, maybe if enough of a stink is kicked up they may make it retrospective (just like the provisional license fiasco).

Except you would have to change it for everyone and therefore someone who has a current motortax bill of say 200 euro could find themselves forking out 600 euro because they bought the car because of its relatively small engine size which was cheaper under the old system with out paying any attention to its C02 which they were not required to .
This would also mean that the car would also be greatly devalued because of the increase in tax due.
Then there would be one almighty stink kicked up.

cdebru

johnf2020 wrote: »

Right guys, here is the way it officially done---i'm in the trade. Loyatemu is right.

Cars already on the road will have the road tax rate changed on the 1st Feb.
Increase is 9.5% if under 2.5 litres and 11% if over 2.5.;---This will not change to new system.----IT DOES NOT CHANGE IN JULY.

New rate of tax from July is only on NEW CARS REGED IN JULY ONWARDS--IT GOES HAD IN HAND WITH NEW VRT.

EXAMPLE.

New 08 model Laguna 1.5dci//currently €313 to tax,Feb up 9.5% to €343.-This car will Permantly be this rate to tax.

Same 08 Laguna 1.5dci Reged in July will only be €150 to tax per year.!!!!!!

So effectively we have a 2 tier road tax system. What is not fair is that any of the low emision cars that are sold in January do not qualify for the cheaper road tax system ,when implemented in in July. What will happen now is that people will now go out and buy the gas guzzlers now,and people buying main stream cars will wait till july. It will now make all the petrol engined cars above 1.4 nearly unsaleable.Anyway from July,most 1.4 petrol cars will rise by about €2000 and most diesels will come down by about the same, amount,or more rendering no/very little price difference which is "very good". What is bad is "Who will want a petrol car" even secondhand.
Minister Cowan did not think this one through---even though he had 4 years to do so.

if the car is pre july it will be under the current tax system so it will decrease the value of some cars but it will increase the value of others.

So for example if you buy a 3 litre gas Guzzler in July you will be taxed at 2000 euro a year if you bought it in june you would pay 1343 +11% so which car would be worth more on a trade in.

The lesson is clear anyone buying a new car next year if it is low emission wait till july if it is a Gas guzzler make sure you buy it before july anyone who does otherwise and complains about it will get little sympathy from anyone.

johnf2020

Ditto

SeanW

cdebru wrote: »

Except you would have to change it for everyone and therefore someone who has a current motortax bill of say 200 euro could find themselves forking out 600 euro because they bought the car because of its relatively small engine size which was cheaper under the old system with out paying any attention to its C02 which they were not required to .
This would also mean that the car would also be greatly devalued because of the increase in tax due.
Then there would be one almighty stink kicked up.

The problem is, like others said, you'd also have to raise taxes on existing guzzlers. And the people who already have those, are more or less locked into it until it comes time to sell or scrap that vehicle.

Loathe as I am to say it, I think the government has done it the right way - by allowing existing cars to continue paying taxes at the old rate, someone who's already invested in a particular vehicle won't have their tax bills dramatically changed, but from July on, everyone who buys a new car has a choice and knows the score.

lostexpectation

I thought there was campaign by some to get rid of vrt altogetherm or put it way down to eu level?

cdebru

lostexpectation wrote: »

I thought there was campaign by some to get rid of vrt altogetherm or put it way down to eu level?

They have got rid of VRT they have replaced it with an enviromental tax to encourage us to lower emissions

No way that this government will ever give up the lucrative earner that is VRT
they can ignore the EU when it comes to VRT but not when it comes to charging schools for water.

Hotblack Desiato

cdebru wrote: »

they can ignore the EU when it comes to VRT but not when it comes to charging schools for water.

Contrary to the popular myth, VRT is not illegal under EU law, and Ireland is not the only EU country operating a VRT system.

E92

ninja900 wrote: »

Contrary to the popular myth, VRT is not illegal under EU law, and Ireland is not the only EU country operating a VRT system.

Ours is high, but we're only in the ha'penny place compared to Denmark. Portugese cars cost almost as much as ours do too. It is technically illegal but the EU has found that they don't have the power to force the Government to get rid of it(after all the €1.3 billion they get from VRT has to come from somewhere if they were to get rid of it).

Hotblack Desiato

E92 wrote: »

It is technically illegal

Cite please. I hear this repeated all the time but never with a credible source. Our government (and others) insist it is legal.

gally74

does anyone have a table for Road tax post the july changes,

i reckon with the weakness of sterling and these changes combined with great diesels second hand in the uk, imports could go mad next summer

Bee

gally74 wrote: »

does anyone have a table for Road tax post the july changes,

i reckon with the weakness of sterling and these changes combined with great diesels second hand in the uk, imports could go mad next summer

These are the bands on this thread and it also highlights how the Green Party have brought in a VRT Rip - Off

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=69742

And some info

Any car registered in Ireland now or registered before the 1st July 2008* will be subject to the existing VRT and Road Tax schemes, all be it with a 9% increase in Road Tax (for renewals from 1st Feb 2008)
Existing VRT
A1 Cars up to 1,400cc 22.5% of Open Market Selling Price - OMSP
A2 Cars 1,401 to 1,900cc 25% of OMSP
A3 Cars over 1,900cc 30% of OMSP
Existing Road Tax
cc not over 1,000 - now €151, renewing after 1st Feb €165
cc 1,001 to 1,100 - now €227, renewing after 1st Feb €249
cc 1,101 to 1,200 - now €251, renewing after 1st Feb €275
cc 1,201 to 1,300 - now €272, renewing after 1st Feb €298
cc 1,301 to 1,400 - now €292, renewing after 1st Feb €320
cc 1,401 to 1,500 - now €313, renewing after 1st Feb €343
cc 1,501 to 1,600 - now €391, renewing after 1st Feb €428
cc 1,601 to 1,700 - now €414, renewing after 1st Feb €453
cc 1,701 to 1,800 - now €484, renewing after 1st Feb €530
cc 1,801 to 1,900 - now €511, renewing after 1st Feb €560
cc 1,901 to 2,000 - now €539, renewing after 1st Feb €590
cc 2,001 to 2,100 - now €689, renewing after 1st Feb €754
cc 2,101 to 2,200 - now €722, renewing after 1st Feb €791
cc 2,201 to 2,300 - now €755, renewing after 1st Feb €827
cc 2,301 to 2,400 - now €786, renewing after 1st Feb €861
cc 2,401 to 2,500 - now €821, renewing after 1st Feb €899
cc 2,501 to 2,600 - now €961, renewing after 1st Feb €1,067
cc 2,601 to 2,700 - now €999, renewing after 1st Feb €1,109
cc 2,701 to 2,800 - now €1,033, renewing after 1st Feb €1,147
cc 2,801 to 2,900 - now €1,071, renewing after 1st Feb €1,189
cc 2,901 to 3,000 - now €1,109, renewing after 1st Feb €1,231
cc 3,001 or more - now €1,343, renewing after 1st Feb €1,491
Electrical - now €146, renewing after 1st Feb €146
Any car registered in Ireland on or after 1st July 2008* will be subject to the new VRT and Road Tax schemes - both designed to make cars which produce less carbon per km travelled cheaper. (Small Diesel Engines, Hybrids, etc)
New VRT
Band A 0 - 120g 14%
Band B 121 - 140g 16%
Band C 141 - 155g 20%
Band D 156 - 170g 24%
Band E 171 - 190 g 28%
Band F 191 - 225g 32%
Band G 226g and over 36%
New Road Tax
Band A (under 120 grams per km) - €100.
Band B (121-140 grams perkm) - €150.
Band C (141-155 grams per km) - € 290.
Band D (156-170 grams per km) - €430.
Band E (171-190 grams per km) -€ 600.
Band F (191-225 grams per km) - €1,000.
Band G, the top band -€2,000, reflecting CO2 emissions of over 225grams per km.

Bee

cdebru wrote: »

Except you would have to change it for everyone and therefore someone who has a current motortax bill of say 200 euro could find themselves forking out 600 euro because they bought the car because of its relatively small engine size which was cheaper under the old system with out paying any attention to its C02 which they were not required to .
This would also mean that the car would also be greatly devalued because of the increase in tax due.
Then there would be one almighty stink kicked up.

You got it in one!


Christmas Message from the Minister for the Environment to Owners of High Emissions Cars.

Dear High-Emissions Motorist,

Now that Christmas is approaching, I would like to announce a special gift for all owners of high-emissions vehicles. I would like you to continue to enjoy your polluting ways and I have therefore ensured that my new annual motor tax system will not penalise you. You will just continue to pay your motor tax on the same basis as you always have. To reward you for your choice of vehicle, my new system will also ensure that you will enjoy a discounted rate of motor tax after 1st July 2008. While the rates for new high-emissions cars will rise substantially after this date, you will be protected & will continue to enjoy the current lower ones.

For those of you who have not yet purchased your gas guzzler, I am giving you another six months during which you will be able to do so. And you really should. If you buy one before 1st July 2008, I will ensure that you enjoy all the same benefits as those who have already made this choice. You will also get the discounted rate of motor tax after July 1st. As an added bonus, the trade-in value of your vehicle will probably rise because it will continue to benefit from the lower tax rate indefinitely.

Don’t worry about those idiots who believed us and have bought their low-emissions car in the last few years. As they’re already signed up, we will just rip them off. I have ensured that their cars will continue to be stuck on the high motor tax rates permanently. After July 1st, they will be at a serious disadvantage and their cars will probably depreciate heavily as a result. To make certain of this, I have decided that my new tax rates will also apply to imported used cars. Low emissions ones imported after July 1st will benefit from much lower motor tax rates than identical ones already registered here. I really can’t stop congratulating myself on the cleverness of this – it will just crucify the resale value of all existing low emissions cars. I’m sure you will take great pleasure in the fact that those who have already chosen the cleanest cars (e.g. the Toyota Prius and family-sized diesels like the Skoda Octavia TDi) will probably fare worst of all.

Once again, my message is clear – continue your high emissions motoring & I will continue to look after you. I wish you a Happy Christmas and pleasant motoring in the new year.

Yours Sincerely,

John Gormless

Your Green Environment Minister,
Supporting High-Emissions Motoring in Ireland.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=69742&page=5

astrofool

To be fair, if everyone was to take their expensive gas guzzler and replace it with a low emission equivelant, then the environmental damage would be a lot worse.

astrofool

astrofool wrote: »

To be fair, if everyone was to take their expensive gas guzzler and replace it with a low emission equivelant, then the environmental damage would be a lot worse.

I assume you mean as an immediate replacement as opposed to allowing the vehicles to "age out".

It makes sence to influance buyers of new vehicles, but we are stuck with the existing vehicles.