America and Creationism

starn

Not really sure where to post this. So feel Free to move it. But why do so many americans belive in creationism

aidan_walsh

Because religious people believe what religion tells them.

SimpleSam06

starn wrote: »

Not really sure where to post this. So feel Free to move it. But why do so many americans belive in creationism

Its the heroin the gummint puts in their sammiches.

starn

But why the US in paticular. They dont teach creationism in Ireland, or France or Belgian, Germany etc, etc. But yet in the US the majority of people seem to have rejected evelution. WHY ?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

because they're crazy.

Rhyme

Some of the creationist videos on Youtube are hilarious.

"This banana was clearly created by God, look how it fits in my hand."

starn

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Its the heroin the gummint puts in their sammiches.

LOL:D

connundrum

Probably because creationsim offers the best explanation for the questions they've asked.

Not the right explanation, just the best one for them i.e. you'll only hear what you want to hear.

120_Minutes

to quote bill hicks: explain dinosaurs.

kowloon

Rhyme wrote: »

"This banana was clearly created by God, look how it fits in my hand."

If that's in a video, i do believe it is your duty to post a link

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TME30pPBw58

they have

120_Minutes

Mordeth wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TME30pPBw58

they have

I was going to respond by saying "oh dear god" until i realised the irony.

Thats genuinly scary.

dakan

What's genuinely scary is that these buggers are over here!

http://www.creation.ie/Library/

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGF2AxlQsYE

It's very sad to see how grown men and women can just abandon reason, logic
and critical thinking so easily.

starn

Unbeliviable.

But why does this seem to be only a american think. Why are there not as many Australians or the Chinese say. Just as convince that humans played fetch with dinosaurs

utick

dakan wrote: »

What's genuinely scary is that these buggers are over here!

http://www.creation.ie/Library/

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGF2AxlQsYE

It's very sad to see how grown men and women can just abandon reason, logic
and critical thinking so easily.

heres a simple fact, nobody knows whre we came from, so weather your faith lies with religion or science is a personal choice, the answer to the question of where we came from will never be able to be proved, nobody knows, end of discussion

Rhyme

kowloon wrote: »

If that's in a video, i do believe it is your duty to post a link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ3Fw3wZouM

Look up pictures of wild bananas to compliment the video.

dakan

I think the problem is that unfortunately in America creationism has become so entangled with politics, nationalism and religious fundamentalism in general. It is constantly insinuated that evolution is to cause of all the world ills. So to a creationist this isn't about two competing theories about the origin of man, this is about two completely different world views. One good and one evil.

Also they fill the children's heads with this crap when their young and it is constantly reinforced by their parents, religious leaders, politicians etc. So it has become completely self-perpetuating. They are never exposed to any other viewpoint.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

utick wrote: »

heres a simple fact, nobody knows whre we came from, so weather your faith lies with religion or science is a personal choice, the answer to the question of where we came from will never be able to be proved, nobody knows, end of discussion

that's a very religious way to look at it.

starn

utick wrote: »

heres a simple fact, nobody knows whre we came from, so weather your faith lies with religion or science is a personal choice, the answer to the question of where we came from will never be able to be proved, nobody knows, end of discussion

Thats true nobody knows. But we can make a pretty good guess of it by examing what we avaliable information. Fossil record, U235 half life, etc, etc, and devise a sound hypotis.

For Instance if I wake up one morning and find the garden suddenly all wet and leafs blown all over the place. I cant answer for certain. But I can be pretty sure that it rained over night and that the wind blow the leafs around my garden.

I cant belive the guy in the museum actually had a diarama of kids playing fetch with Dinos. Thats some Fvcked up sh1te

dakan

utick wrote: »

heres a simple fact, nobody knows whre we came from, so weather your faith lies with religion or science is a personal choice, the answer to the question of where we came from will never be able to be proved, nobody knows, end of discussion

I wouldn't agree that science depends on faith. Science is different from religion in that it can be predictable, falsifiable, you can do repeatable experiments etc. My main point is about reason. Evolution may not check all the boxes of the scientific method. But still there is such a mountain of evidence in it's favour. Why do people still think it is reasonable to doubt it.

MagicMarker

I blame Footloose.

astraboy

dakan wrote: »

I think the problem is that unfortunately in America creationism has become so entangled with politics, nationalism and religious fundamentalism in general. It is constantly insinuated that evolution is to cause of all the world ills. So to a creationist this isn't about two competing theories about the origin of man, this is about two completely different world views. One good and one evil.

Also they fill the children's heads with this crap when their young and it is constantly reinforced by their parents, religious leaders, politicians etc. So it has become completely self-perpetuating. They are never exposed to any other viewpoint.

Quite true. I lived in the US for the past several summers and I must say most people I met do NOT believe in Creationism. I was however in the Northeast so its far less "redneck". The problem with the US is people become so polarized and in many of the southern states this attitude and belief is ingrained in them. They cannot see any other point of view. Whackos get to go on TV and Radio and the religious right have huge power politically. You have whackos in Ireland too, however most of them live in the carlow sticks and don't manage to get on TV!:D

Overheal

do you Really want to get me started on this, or what?

I'd begin telling you it all started after WWII and the Cold War. It all went downhill from there. You start giving up freedoms, doing some morally questionable things like incarcerating everyone japanese or descent in the country, etc etc.

Then the Nuke happens, then the Cold War happens.

As a result: gross levels of media blackout, propoganda, and general fear - at the time even the government was as scared as anyone else if not more so. How rare these days.

One of the first things to happen? Well its simple really: you teach your kids to hate communism, and as that spreads you begin to have to avoid so many aspects of sociology, history and geography in order to maintain the desired level of Patriotism that eventually the only thing you focus on is the U.S. of A. Eventually world maps get grossly outnumbered by US maps and then after about 20 years who the hell really knows how to point to our good war buddies England and France anymore?

Then before my time during a phase I have still learned little about the attention shifted dramatically to the middle east and Jihad this and Isreal that. Religion comes to the fray again and again after so long in ignorance and fear things like Creationism and (Help Us) Scientology began to gain traction. And this is why most Americans (not me!) are stupid and uneducated. I have to admit moving away at 13 did a world of good.

as well as that though I'll add the reason the government over there is so feared now is because of the Cold War - they were so terrified themselves they got dirty: if you disagreed with their policies to spy on you, you were a Communist sympathizer and a traitor to your country! They got really good at this after a while and now it amounts to many, many layers of government influence, media backhands and lobbyists. The laws are now so contorted that it would take an army of scholars just to comprehend it all - to the point where the Country is just dying in on itself for a Revolution that will never come.

****

As for the Creationism taking hold again? Its this War on Terror; and all that crap. Then you have this building tension with Russia with Putin taking the reigns there...

Over the summer there was a big expose' on a Summer Camp program that good ol' Vladimir was running near Moscow that the press went crazy over; comparing it to Hitler's Youth. I could have agreed I suppose but then I found a contrary couple clips on the Tube of You, that show how the same thing has been happening in the States! Good little boys and girls being taught I paraphrase in lack of a direct recollection of the quote: 'To be God's soldiers (Christianity, here) and that anyone who isn't a Christian is The Enemy.'

Those kids looked in the age range of around 5-10 years old. What the fcuk.

anyway I cant find the videos at the min - its late; im tired and i have a test in the afternoon if I can find them again though they'll go up straight away.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

it's called Jesus Camp, and afaik the camp has been disbanded.

They had a preacher in it, rev haggard I think his name was... he was preaching about how evil gays were etc in the movie. Last year, or early this year... he was charged with buying speed and soliticing sex from a gay hooker.

american religion

Gonzo_Fiend

.

Bill Hicks wrote:

But get this, I actually asked one of these guys, "OK, dinosaurs fossils--how does that fit into your scheme of life? Let me sit down and strap in." [mimes sitting down and strapping in]
He said, "Dinosaur fossils? God put those there to test our faith."
[contorting face in an almost simian manner as he attempts to understand] "Thank God I'm strapped in right now here, man. I think God put you here to test my faith, dude. You believe that?"
"Uh-huh."

Does that trouble anyone here? The idea that God... might be... ****in' with our heads? I have trouble sleeping with that knowledge. Some prankster God running around: "Hu hu ho ho. We will see who believes in me now, ha ha." [mimes God burying fossils] "I am God. I am a prankster. I am killing Me. Hu hu ho ho."

You know, you die and go to St. Peter. "Did you believe in dinosaurs?"
"Well, yeah, there were fossils everywhe--" CRASH! [screams and mimes falling into Hell]
"You ****ing idiot! Flying lizards? You're a moron! God was ****ing with you!"
"It seemed so plausible.... AAAAAAAAH!"
"Enjoy the lake of fire, ****er."

condra

Childhood intoctrination is reponsible for a lot of it I'm sure.

Do people here believe in evolution because it was thought to them as fact, or because they have given it some thought, understood exactly how the theory of evolution works, and come to a logical conclusion?

Any Christian here who thinks creationists are crazy or naive- I suggest you spend some time questioning and chellenging your own beliefs, you may come to a very liberating conclusion.

Do please go here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=614

if you would like to discuss it further.

WhiteWashMan

womoma wrote: »

Any Christian here who thinks creationists are crazy or naive- I suggest you spend some time questioning and chellenging your own beliefs, you may come to a very liberating conclusion.

now, ive had my fill of religious debates over the years, and so i generally stay away.

but..

what i really hate are people who think that all you need to do is 'spend some time questioning and challenging your own beliefs'. cos im not too bright see, and i never thought of that before.

oh, and we must be doing it wrong if we dont 'get it' right?

you are correct in respect to the liberating conclusion however. my conclusion is that anyone who thinks that creationism is a functioning theory is a few sambos short of a pic-a-nic.

each to their own. im with the dinosuars. especially as they just found a big one recently in Australia i think. possilby the largest and most well preserved one ever found. i guess god buried that one more recently. i wonder where he gets them made?
probably china.

condra

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

oh, and we must be doing it wrong if we dont 'get it' right?

Yes, exactly.

DublinWriter

starn wrote: »

But why the US in paticular. They dont teach creationism in Ireland, or France or Belgian, Germany etc, etc. But yet in the US the majority of people seem to have rejected evelution. WHY ?

People tend to forget that there were three Christian sects in England in the 17th Century - Catholic, Protestant and Puritan.

The majority of England's Puritans left to colonise North America between 1620 and 1640 partly due to persecution

These were the first settlers of what is now the USA.

The puritans were uber-religious and adhered strictly to the letter of the Bible.

There's one particular funny episode in Black Adder II where Edmund's puritan relations come to visit - you'll remember his aunt wore a skull cap with a model of Mount Calvery on it and insisted on only eating a single raw potato.

In the late 17th Century, the Puritan movement slowly transformed into the Baptist religion, now the most dominant Christian religion in the southern states.

In the 18th and 19th Centuries the Baptists began to colonise southwards as more and more emigrants from Europe landed in New England.

So basically, there you have it.

SimpleSam06

DublinWriter wrote: »

The majority of England's Puritans left to colonise North America between 1620 and 1640 partly due to persecution

And the reasons for that persecution are now becoming painfully obvious.

Reku

The thing that baffles me a bit is the fact that they cling so strongly to it even though they know that the scientific proof against creationism is overwhelming and they also know (I hope) that the old testament is more about meaning than actual fact (the catholic church itself has even said that you're not supposed to take the old testament literally).
Otherwise they'd have to allow inbreeding since we all come from Adam and Eve, and then Eve and her sons. I also can't recall any mention of Adam and Eve actually getting married so they'd have to allow unmarried couples the same rights as married.

pljudge321

Mordeth wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TME30pPBw58

they have

The guy that set up that park is currently serving a ten year sentence for tax evasion and has been accused of assault and when they raided his house they found a big stockpile of guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr_Dino

dakan

pljudge321 wrote: »

The guy that set up that park is currently serving a ten year sentence for tax evasion

There is a GOD and he is on the side of the atheists

Pompey Magnus

pljudge321 wrote: »

The guy that set up that park is currently serving a ten year sentence for tax evasion and has been accused of assault and when they raided his house they found a big stockpile of guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr_Dino

That bloke is just hilarious. His theory on the Young Earth is brilliant. A giant snowball -184 C (obviously he rejects absolute zero as well) hits the earth, with the "super-cold snow" burying the mammoths standing up. Oh, and Satan creates UFOs.

His insight into Darwins life is quite enlightening though:

"He was born in 1809 and died about 1880. He was very anti-Christian and tried to influence anyone he could not to believe in God. He was very full of godless ideas. He was a very avid agnostic, racist, and an evolutionist. He believed in a great infinite age of the universe. He was very influential in furthering the ideas of evolution, particularly in the country of England."

He made millions of dollars on this tripe. America really is the land of oppertunity.

KingOfFairview

I go on a different forum sometimes, Civfanatics, but on the non-gaming part; its about 50/50 between Europeans and Americans, there are exceptions, but in general, the Americans on the site have a totally, totally different view of the world.

They CANNOT understand the worldview of most Europeans on a range of issues. they cannot udnerstand how we dont percieve the US as "protecting" us from the likes of Iran:rolleyes:... can't understand how we can rule out creationaism... keep trying to find ways to justify racism, all the while claiming they arent racist they just have a totally different outlook in general. I know this dosent go for all Americans by any stretch of the imagination, but I have to say, I think the country is headed in a really bad direction. True, Bush is going to be gone soon, but I suspect that wont actually make a huge difference, they are sort of on a pth thats its not that easy to get off

bonkey

utick wrote: »

heres a simple fact, nobody knows whre we came from, so weather your faith lies with religion or science is a personal choice, the answer to the question of where we came from will never be able to be proved, nobody knows, end of discussion

If you equate the teachings of religion or the belief of faith with the research of science, you've already lost the plot.

Its like the crazy idea that takes "everyone is entitled to their opinion" and turns it into "every opinion is equally valid from an objective standpoint".

bonkey

dakan wrote: »

It's very sad to see how grown men and women can just abandon reason, logic
and critical thinking so easily.

Creationists would say the same about people who accept evolution.

bonkey

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

A giant snowball -184 C (obviously he rejects absolute zero as well)

Absolute zero, in my universe, is about -273 C.

humanji

MagicMarker wrote: »

I blame Footloose.

But they haven't posted on here since 2005!

Cactus Col

Shouldn't this be in the Atheism & Agnosticism section?

How many people in america actually believe in creationism?

How many people in ireland believe in it? Doesn't Ian Paisley's religion teach it too?

I don't care that americans believe or don't believe in creationism. All these threads end up similar enough .. either christians are stupid ... or americans are stupid. I guess this one is Christian Americans are stupid.

Pompey Magnus

bonkey wrote: »

Absolute zero, in my universe, is about -273 C.

Crap, a creationist knows more about science than I do. I'm off now to crawl under a rock .

bonkey

Crawl some more...I'm no creationist.

So much for critical thinking, eh

Overheal

I have a new defense against Creationists!

"Well then didn't God Create SCIENCE?"

KingOfFairview wrote: »

I go on a different forum sometimes, Civfanatics, but on the non-gaming part; its about 50/50 between Europeans and Americans, there are exceptions, but in general, the Americans on the site have a totally, totally different view of the world.

They CANNOT understand the worldview of most Europeans on a range of issues. they cannot udnerstand how we dont percieve the US as "protecting" us from the likes of Iran... can't understand how we can rule out creationaism... keep trying to find ways to justify racism, all the while claiming they arent racist they just have a totally different outlook in general. I know this dosent go for all Americans by any stretch of the imagination, but I have to say, I think the country is headed in a really bad direction. True, Bush is going to be gone soon, but I suspect that wont actually make a huge difference, they are sort of on a pth thats its not that easy to get off

Link?

Kipperhell

The reason it is a big deal in the US is pretty straight forward. Ameriaca is partially the result of people moving away from Europe to practice their religion free from persecution. As a result religious freedom is a big thing to the country from its inception.
A large uneducated population entered the country. Many were home sick and pretty miserable. Religion thrives with uneducated miserable people as its basic premise is listen to me and follow me and you will get a better life if not now when you die. You will ultimately get justice
As with any immigrant population many criminal elements come in at the same time (regardless of race or country of origin). Such people set up their own scams and ways of manipulating people. Hey presto you have scam artists and people who will follow religion.
So now you have religion with little or no connection to the original orders they came from. Some are truly following a religious belief and others are in it for the money. The leaders become "dedicated" with the one tangible thing they have, the bible. The preachers are not educated people from religious orders so they follow the whole thing blindly with out any guidance. Populations increases and time passes on with the churches getting bigger.
The political elite stick with the power which is the church so the church have financial control in areas. They set-up schools and colleges specifically with their way of teaching. It then just keeps going.
There was no counter to the religious beliefs for such a long time they ran wild and grew. Now they try to ship this religious belief to us. The belief that you were born at a specific time where you happen to get the bible in the correct translated language in its correct form to me seems so incredibly arrogant and not a faith based leap.
Mormons, Nation of Islam and The Church Of Scientology are prime examples of religious scams in my opinion.
Evolution makes sense to me where as the bible as a accurate document does not. I really don't know enough about evolution to say it is accurate but I know enough about the bible to know it isn't.

WhiteWashMan

womoma wrote: »

Yes, exactly.

an argument based on fact. i like your style.

:rolleyes:

KingOfFairview

Overheal wrote: »

Link?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=18

Pompey Magnus

bonkey wrote: »

Crawl some more...I'm no creationist.

I was talking about Dr Dino, the bloke who I was slagging off in my original post. So embarrassing.