what diesel for Jan08

what_car

considering going back to a diesel in Jan 08..


on my list are.:

1. avensis 2.0D4D ( unwise as new model soon ) *boring* had one before.
2. honda accord 2.2 D (unwise as new model soon )
3. volvo V50 2.0 D SE (good spec although new model had some recalls)
4. mazda 6 new mdl diesel est (estate not out yet) ford engines?

thats my list
any suggestions or opinions on the above?

alias no.9

The volvo and mazda are both peugeot engines.

mox54

Still go for Honda, don't think much of volvo or mazda and Avensis is a v v boring car, Mondeo is another one to try but wouldn't touch a VW but love the A4.

TontoMurphy

have you a euro figure in mind??

Henry Ford III

Wait until after mid year? Budget VRT changes may have a big effect.

kluivert

Go for

Mazda 3 1.6d Touring.

Skoda Octavia 1.9 tdi Ambiente.

cashmni1

Look at Honest John web site for really good reviews on diesel cars. They loved the new Mazda 6 and I would also consider the Ford. Peolple don't realise how far advanced they actaully are in terms of real driving, (good suspensions, great handling steering and brakes). Worth a look for sure, unless you just don't like them.

bazz26

alias no.9 wrote: »

The volvo and mazda are both peugeot engines.

Mondeo and 6 use different diesel engines afaik. Mondeo is a PSA HDi unit while Mazda uses a reworked version of the unit from the previous model which is made inhouse afaik.

bazz26

kluivert wrote: »

Go for

Mazda 3 1.6d Touring.

Skoda Octavia 1.9 tdi Ambiente.

These are in a smaller class than the ones the OP is looking at though.

RobAMerc

Mazda or Volvo - would be for me, or look at the Mondeo. ( best drivers cars )

The Toyota - is an older design and was never really up to much in the first place, I know nothing about the Honda except it too is an older design than the Mazda Ford and probably the Volvo.

bazz26

what_car wrote: »

considering going back to a diesel in Jan 08..


on my short list are.:

1. avensis 2.0D4D ( unwise as new model soon ) *boring*
2. honda accord 2.2 D (unwise as new model soon )
3. volvo V50 2.0 D SE (good spec although new model had some recalls)
4. mazda 6 new mdl diesel est (estate not out yet) ford engines?

thats my list
any suggestions or opinions on the above?

I'm a bit confused here OP, you had an Avensis before and said on previous threads that you got rid of it because it was too boring. Yet it is on your short list above again??

alias no.9

bazz26 wrote: »

Mondeo and 6 use different diesel engines afaik. Mondeo is a PSA HDi unit while Mazda uses a reworked version of the unit from the previous model which is made inhouse afaik.

Brothers mazda 6 has the PSA 136bhp HDi lump .

kluivert

bazz26 wrote: »

These are in a smaller class than the ones the OP is looking at though.

I know but I love them lol

bazz26

alias no.9 wrote: »

Brothers mazda 6 has the PSA 136bhp HDi lump .

Is it the new or old model?

I'm nearly 100% sure the old model 6 2.0 litre diesel unit was made inhouse by Mazda. It was available in both 120bhp and 136bhp. Later the 136bhp unit was upgraded to 141bhp.

E92

Mazda 6 of either generation has Mazda engines, whether its a petrol or a paraffin stove. The TDCi's in the Mondeo(Mk3 and Mk4) are Ford engines. The 2.0 TDCi in the S-Max, Galaxy, Modeo, Jag X-Type is a completely different engine to the 2.0 TDCi in the Focus, C-Max, Volvo S40 etc. The TDCi in those cars is a PSA design.

Thisis the engine in the Mondeo(along with the DLD-418 in the case of the 1.8 TDCi), this is the unit in the S40(see DW10), and lastly although I can't provide a link to it(perhaps someone else could), the Mazda MZR-CD is their own handywork.

cjt156

Alfa 159 2.4 JTDm - the best oilburner money can buy;) Although the 1.9 is a damn fine engine too.
Used in FIAT, Alfa, Saab, Opel, probably more GM brands too.

what_car

bazz26 wrote: »

I'm a bit confused here OP, you had an Avensis before and said on previous threads that you got rid of it because it was too boring. Yet it is on your short list above again??

its on the list for the engine! nothing else. refer to my previous threads where i said it would be agreat car if it was restyled...hence i put the word boring beside it in my first post!!

its there, purely because its a good diesel... i had one...before dont intend to go there again, ( maybe with a new model)

yellow012

Have you checked the co2 ratings for the cars your interested in. Its something to bare in mind as for eg the 1.9 PD tdi in the Octavia has a co2 rating of 130 which according to the figures and calculations in the VRT thread should make it €2k cheaper in the summer.
Then again I will believe it when I see it happening.

what_car

yellow012 wrote: »

Have you checked the co2 ratings for the cars your interested in. Its something to bare in mind as for eg the 1.9 PD tdi in the Octavia has a co2 rating of 130 which according to the figures and calculations in the VRT thread should make it €2k cheaper in the summer.
Then again I will believe it when I see it happening.

checked my car which is 200g co2..

the accord 2.2 is 145g co2 according to the simi site, so bit of a difference there,

so i may as well wait for the new accord thats due out late next summer and get the new model diesel exec! and save a few grand also..

the road tax increase was not as bad as i imagined...

mr cowan just gave me an incentive to hold out for the new accord, and save a few grand....:p

the accord diesel moves from 30% VRT to 20% VRT!! yipee:D

Hotwheels

cjt156 wrote: »

Alfa 159 2.4 JTDm - the best oilburner money can buy;) Although the 1.9 is a damn fine engine too.
Used in FIAT, Alfa, Saab, Opel, probably more GM brands too.

159 JTDm gets my vote
150 BHP from the 1.9 210 from the 2.4..
Excellent drive, not to mention the looks...:)

Biro

Best bet is probably wait for new Accord and new VRT saving post-July purchase. Although on your list to try should be the new Mazda 6 and the 159, which is coming out with a 180bhp twin turbo 1.9 diesel.

For one of the previous posts there, the 2 litre Mazda 6 136bhp diesel is Mazda's unit, not PSA's or Fords.

colm_mcm

you're presuming the distributors will keep the supply price to the dealers the same. they may increase the prices of cars that have reduced VRT and reduce the prices on high emission models.

Biro

colm_mcm wrote: »

you're presuming the distributors will keep the supply price to the dealers the same. they may increase the prices of cars that have reduced VRT and reduce the prices on high emission models.

Ya, that's what I was afraid of. But where the likes of VW themselves have recently taken over from the previous distributors (and a good job they did too) they mightn't adjust the prices at all. But it all remains to be seen.
I reckon there'll be a load of garages registering any high emission cars to themselves in June so as to offer "bargains" to customers in July and onwards!
At least 2008 will be a car buying year of two halves!

JHMEG

2007 International Engine Awards

2.0 to 2.5 litre category:
Honda Diesel 2.2-litre (Civic, Accord (Europe), CR-V, FR-V) = 119points
Toyota Diesel 2.2-litre D-CAT (Avensis, Corolla Verso, RAV4, Auris, Lexus IS220d) = 104 points
Fiat Diesel 2.4-litre JTD Multijet (Alfa 166, Lancia Thesis, Croma, Alfa 159, Brera) = 101 points

Only diesel in the 1.8 to 2.0 litre is the BMW 2.0

Henry Ford III

The 2.2 Toyota lump is a poor engine in terms of refinement. Well documented in many places.

what_car

Biro wrote: »

Best bet is probably wait for new Accord and new VRT saving post-July purchase. Although on your list to try should be the new Mazda 6 and the 159, which is coming out with a 180bhp twin turbo 1.9 diesel.

For one of the previous posts there, the 2 litre Mazda 6 136bhp diesel is Mazda's unit, not PSA's or Fords.

possibly road tax savings too.

taken from cowans budget doc. 1 july onwards, road tax is based on co2!! for new cars!
Motor Tax

Motor tax is an essential contributor to Local Government funding. Motor tax has not been changed since 2004. Since then the CPI has risen by around 15%. It is proposed to increase the existing motor tax rates by 9.5% for cars below 2.5 litres and 11% for larger cars from 1 February 2008. Details are contained in the Summary of Budget Measures.

To complement the changes in the VRT system, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government also intends to bring forward proposals that will link motor tax to CO2 emissions for new cars from 1 July 2008. These measures will allow consumers to act in an environmentally responsible way.

so buy a new motor after July 1st, and pay cheaper road tax too??

colm_mcm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The 2.2 Toyota lump is a poor engine in terms of refinement. Well documented in many places.

Do you know what the criteria for picking a winner is?

I find it's quietest (or least noisy) in the Corolla Verso. It's ok i the Lexus as long as you don't drive around in 6th under 120kmph!

what_car

JHMEG wrote: »

2007 International Engine Awards

2.0 to 2.5 litre category:
Honda Diesel 2.2-litre (Civic, Accord (Europe), CR-V, FR-V) = 119points
Toyota Diesel 2.2-litre D-CAT (Avensis, Corolla Verso, RAV4, Auris, Lexus IS220d) = 104 points
Fiat Diesel 2.4-litre JTD Multijet (Alfa 166, Lancia Thesis, Croma, Alfa 159, Brera) = 101 points

Only diesel in the 1.8 to 2.0 litre is the BMW 2.0

i found the toyota 2.0D4D engine excellent, easy on fuel, not bad on power, and sounded nice..... i averaged 50+ mpg in it...

if only i could get one installed my accord auto... then it be a real nice match

what_car

colm_mcm wrote: »

Do you know what the criteria for picking a winner is?

I find it's quietest (or least noisy) in the Corolla Verso. It's ok i the Lexus as long as you don't drive around in 6th under 120kmph!

colm_mcm , any word on a new model avensis coming out?

also any news on an estate corolla...? surely they should be releasing an estate corolla? ( a mate is looking for a new estate small diesel)

E92

And the BMW diesel was ahead of the CTR and S2000's lump respectively;). VAG's 2.0TFSI was the winner in that category, BMW's 2.0 was second, Hondas were 3rd and 4th respectively, Mitsubishi's 2.0 turbo was behind the Hondas and VAG's 2.0 non turbo was 6th.

And of course the international engine of the year 2007 is the 3.0 twin turbo BMW found in the 135i and 335i. BMW's V10 in the M5 and M6 was the best performance engine. BMW has the 3 best engines in the 2.5 to 3 litre category too(3.0 twin turbo 1st, twin turbo diesel 2nd, and 3.0 NA petrol 3rd), and best 1.4-1.8 too(MINI Cooper S engine) according to them.

In the category of 2-2.5 litre, BMW won that too with 179 pts for their 2.5 straight 6 petrol as opposed 150 for the Scooby's flat 4 turbo, 3rd was the Mazda DISI Turbo in their MPS models with 144 pts, 4th was the Accord's oil burner followed by the Toyota and lastly the Alfa's 2.4 lump. Make what ye want of that.source

bazz26

what_car wrote: »

colm_mcm , any word on a new model avensis coming out?

also any news on an estate corolla...? surely they should be releasing an estate corolla? ( a mate is looking for a new estate small diesel)

New Avensis is due in the next 12 months probably towards the end of 2008.

No Corolla estate afaik. The last model was built in Turkey along side the saloon afaik but was generally a poor seller. Probably too expensive to engineer for a small RHD market like Ireland. People have moved away from these small estate cars into small MPVs or crossover models like the Nissan Cashcow. An estate imported from Japan would probably work out too expensive too.

sk8board

alias no.9 wrote: »

The volvo and mazda are both peugeot engines.

Would be the V50 for me. Great spec, and nice clean styling.

aren't they all Ford/Volvo engines?

- our Focus has a Volvo 1.6
- A colleague's ST has the Volvo 225 T5 engine

and regarding the diesels, I thought they all use Ford's new DuraTorq engines

i think the V50 is is even assembled at a Ford plant in Belgium, and the V50 chassis (think its called the C-1) is the same as used in the Focus and Mazda3 estates.

EDIT: btw, with the incoming CO2-based rules, the 2.0D engines could be getting very popular, especially if they drop in price. There is an interesting comparison in the papers today that a BMW 520d is 126g CO2/KM, but a 1.2 Micra is 146g!

JHMEG

E92, minus references to petrol engines wrote:

And the BMW diesel was ahead of the <petrol>. <petrol> BMW's 2.0 diesel was second, <petrol>, <petrol> <petrol>.

<petrol>. <petrol>, twin turbo diesel, <petrol>, <petrol>

<petrol> <petrol>,<petrol>Accord's oil burner followed by the Toyota and lastly the Alfa's 2.4 lump.

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

Yawn.... no wait you're defending a diesel in this thread:eek::D

E92

colm_mcm wrote: »

you're presuming the distributors will keep the supply price to the dealers the same. they may increase the prices of cars that have reduced VRT and reduce the prices on high emission models.

And if they do they will be in brach of the EU's Block Exemption rules which are over 4 years old now. Pre tax prices of cars have to be the same everywhere throughout the EU, a few% extra for RHD cars yes, but it must be a very small difference. They have to pass on the saving/increase. If they don't then the price of cars in the UK and indeed the rest of Europe will have to rise/fall by the pre tax difference not being passed on to the Irish consumer. Besides, in the Hypothetical situatuion that the pre tax prices were not standardised in the EU, has anyone ever heard of Economics? You know competition,supply and demand, market forces taking effect?

hotshots85

what_car wrote: »

considering going back to a diesel in Jan 08..


on my list are.:

1. avensis 2.0D4D ( unwise as new model soon ) *boring* had one before.
2. honda accord 2.2 D (unwise as new model soon )
3. volvo V50 2.0 D SE (good spec although new model had some recalls)
4. mazda 6 new mdl diesel est (estate not out yet) ford engines?

thats my list
any suggestions or opinions on the above?

ive heard good things about the new renault laguna 1.5 diesel as you probably know nissan and renault are much the same engine now but you get that less plastic feel about the renault .from what i,ve heard renault has sorted out the problems they had with the laguna and this latest model is supposed to be the dogs whatits