Arrears of maintenance

Susannahmia

My parents are still married but have been seperated (not legally) all my life. My father has never supported me or made any effort to contact me even though we live in the same town. Although we struggled financially at times, my mother never went for a maintenance order because she was afraid we would be harassed.

However now that I am 19 and in university I feel the treatment I got was unfair and I want him to take some responsability. I would like to claim maintenance myself as my mother wont but doesnt mind if I do. Is that possible? Am I entitled to 19 years worth of backpay in payments?

Nevyn

Ask a solictor.

Kildrought

I'm not sure why the previous thread with the above subject title was locked, there is no reason given; mods may lock this thread if they feel it appropriate.

But the question, to me, seemed a reasonable one and I don't see any reason not to answer it as the information may be of use to others.

If you are still in full-time education then yes you can seek maintenance from your parents - both parents are legally obliged to maintain their children. You willl not however be able to claim back payments for 19 years, arrears of maintenance can only be granted for 6 months and then only when a court order is already in place.

You don't need a Solicitor to apply for maintenance, applications can be made via your local district court. The court clerk will show you what documents need to be completed, and are usually very helpful though they cannot give legal advice.

Susannahmia

Kildrought wrote: »

I'm not sure why the previous thread with the above subject title was locked, there is no reason given; mods may lock this thread if they feel it appropriate.

But the question, to me, seemed a reasonable one and I don't see any reason not to answer it as the information may be of use to others.

If you are still in full-time education then yes you can seek maintenance from your parents - both parents are legally obliged to maintain their children. You willl not however be able to claim back payments for 19 years, arrears of maintenance can only be granted for 6 months and then only when a court order is already in place.

You don't need a Solicitor to apply for maintenance, applications can be made via your local district court. The court clerk will show you what documents need to be completed, and are usually very helpful though they cannot give legal advice.

Cool thanks kildrought. Just what I needed to know. Being a poor student and all it saves me a trip to the solicitor.

liger

Kildrought wrote: »

arrears of maintenance can only be granted for 6 months and then only when a court order is already in place.

Does this include regular child maintenance for seperated unmarried couple?

embee

Kildrought wrote: »

I'm not sure why the previous thread with the above subject title was locked, there is no reason given; mods may lock this thread if they feel it appropriate.

But the question, to me, seemed a reasonable one and I don't see any reason not to answer it as the information may be of use to others.

If you are still in full-time education then yes you can seek maintenance from your parents - both parents are legally obliged to maintain their children. You willl not however be able to claim back payments for 19 years, arrears of maintenance can only be granted for 6 months and then only when a court order is already in place.

You don't need a Solicitor to apply for maintenance, applications can be made via your local district court. The court clerk will show you what documents need to be completed, and are usually very helpful though they cannot give legal advice.

The more pressing question here is - what young adult pursuing a third level course would bring their parents to court to get some money out of them?

Let them get a bloody job, tbh.

Ayla

embee wrote: »

Let them get a bloody job, tbh.

Sorry, off topic, but thank god someone had the spine to say this...I think it's sad that a 19 yr old is trying to leech off his/her parents. Time to grow up! :rolleyes:

Kildrought

trying to leech off his/her parents

All parents have a legal obligation to support their children...as this person is still in full time education that obligation remains.

You have no idea what support this student might need, you have no idea what circumstances the family might be enduring or how many other children there are or what their needs might be. I would suggest that information and advice is far more useful than judgemental attitudes; and I have to say I would expect a moderator to know better. The choice on what action to take is up to the OP.

embee

Kildrought wrote: »

All parents have a legal obligation to support their children...as this person is still in full time education that obligation remains.

You have no idea what support this student might need, you have no idea what circumstances the family might be enduring or how many other children there are or what their needs might be. I would suggest that information and advice is far more useful than judgemental attitudes; and I have to say I would expect a moderator to know better. The choice on what action to take is up to the OP.

There are grants and scholarships available from the VEC's, from the colleges, from the Department of Education. Most colleges have a hardship fund that can help out the most disadvantaged students when they need it most. Hell, there are countless students in my college who take out bank loans and credit union loans before they'd ever consider legal action. There are endless other avenues to explore before a young adult decides to bring his/her parents to court. You say you expect a moderator to "know better" - frankly, I'd expect a person in third level education to "know better" than to bring their parents to court to get money out of them. I would be so ashamed of my daughter if she pulled this stunt on me in years to come.

Kildrought

would be so ashamed of my daughter if she pulled this stunt on me

But you wouldn't be ashamed of a parent who failed to provide any support whatsoever for 19 years?

embee

Kildrought wrote: »

But you wouldn't be ashamed of a parent who failed to provide any support whatsoever for 19 years?

I'd have said that feeding, clothing and putting a child through both primary and secondary school to allow that individual get a place in college would count as "support".

Your original post on this thread is advising people that they can bring their parents to court ot seek maintenance to put them through college. It doesn't talk about any specific scenario or case where this could possibly be seen as alright.

You said this earlier :

The choice on what action to take is up to the OP

You are the OP. What are you talking about?

Kildrought

If you read my post you will notice that I was replying to an earlier question which for some reason was a) locked and b) had incorrect advice (to see a Solictor which is not required).

The OP in this instance is the person who first posed this question.

I'd have said that feeding, clothing and putting a child through both primary and secondary school to allow that individual get a place in college would count as "support".

I wouldn't disagree with you, to an extent, but if you read the locked post referenced above you will note that the absent parent did not do this.

Most parents of 3rd level students continue to provide some level of support for their children, even if its just bed & board for the weekends.

Caryatnid

I'm an adult, in full-time education. It was my choice as an adult to go to college. I do not believe my parents have any legal obligation to support me (is someone able to clarify that!??) and I also do not believe that they have a moral obligation to support me. It's ridiculous to think that my parents should financially support an adult son or daughter due to a chance the son or daughter made as an adult.

To the 19 year old OP: I am very sorry your father did not support you when he did - but your mam as your guardian was responsible for sorting that out. And as a 19 year old I think if you get any money from your parents, I'm sure that helps, but really, don't you feel you should be supporting yourself now? You could ask your mam to go as guarantor for a student loan.

Kildrought

...parents have any legal obligation to support me (is someone able to clarify that!??)

I can and I already have...both parents have a legal obligation to support their children until the age of 23 if in full-time education (or where they would be in full time education if maintenance was being paid).

See also www.treoir.ie, www.citizensinformation.ie

There are many reasons why primary care parents don't seek maintenance from the absent parent ... but that is no longer relevant to the OP.. s/he is entitled to apply for maintenance in his/her own right.

*Page*

I think fair play to the OP.

S/he could probably look at this as a way to help her family situation.(mother and him/her + whatever siblings)

S/he might be working everyday s/he can, we dont know these details.

s/he is 19. in college and needs help. maybe s/he doesnt qualify for a grant, maybe the finacial strain on the mother is the reason s/he is now looking at her/his father.

Back off a bit people.

ntlbell

embee wrote: »

I'd have said that feeding, clothing and putting a child through both primary and secondary school to allow that individual get a place in college would count as "support".

Your original post on this thread is advising people that they can bring their parents to court ot seek maintenance to put them through college. It doesn't talk about any specific scenario or case where this could possibly be seen as alright.

You said this earlier :



You are the OP. What are you talking about?

his father hasn't supported the family financially or emotionally for years.

Why shouldn't the OP look for some sort of support now?

"forget your father left you never contacted you and didn't support you or your mother financially and get a job"

what sort of attitude is that, i hope you never have to chase the father of your child to help support you financially.

metrovelvet

The OP was entitled to support. There is nothing wrong with fighting for it. In fact s/e shouldnt have to.

embee

ntlbell wrote: »

his father hasn't supported the family financially or emotionally for years.

Why shouldn't the OP look for some sort of support now?

"forget your father left you never contacted you and didn't support you or your mother financially and get a job"

what sort of attitude is that, i hope you never have to chase the father of your child to help support you financially.

When I posted in this thread previously, the OP's post was not on this. It has since been merged. I was replying in light of the fact that the first post on this thread was advising people that they could bring their parents to court to get money out of them. The scenario is entirely different once the OP's post had been merged in.

I still stand by what I said though. If an adult is struggling financially, no matter what their history, there are other avenues I would pursue than bringing parents to court.

The Corinthian

Kildrought wrote: »

But you wouldn't be ashamed of a parent who failed to provide any support whatsoever for 19 years?

As you pointed out yourself "you have no idea" as to the full details of the situation. It is quite possible that her parents had come to an alternative private agreement (e.g. the wife gets 100% of the family home in lieu of maintnance) or that he was ill or otherwise unable to pay. As such you're making the same type of assumptions as you're accusing others of making.

both parents have a legal obligation to support their children until the age of 23 if in full-time education (or where they would be in full time education if maintenance was being paid).

Then, on that basis a 19-year old student in a normal two parent family could potentially sue either parent for maintnance. While maintnance is normally paid to the primary custodian, given their age they would be their own custodian and be entitled to seek it directly.

TBH, whatever about inheritance, child maintnance is really a matter that should have been dealt with by the mother. I would advise that she discuss it with her before taking any action.

Kildrought

19-year old student in a normal two parent family could potentially sue either parent for maintnance

Yes that is the case - the student in question would have to establish that they were not in receipt of any support (and as I've already mentioned even bed and board at weekends is a form of support).

It is also the case that a spouse can seek a court order for maintenance (child or spousal) from the other spouse, even when living under the same roof.

"the wife gets 100% of the family home in lieu of maintnance" as I'm sure you know a court order cannot be made to this effect as it is not legal. The OP has already stated that their parents have not sought a legal separation; in any event the OP is still entitled to seek maintenance from the absent parent.

Bear in mind that other sources of income available to the OP (such as grants, part-time work, support already provided by the mother etc.,) and the current expenditure will all be taken into account; the actually amount of maintenance finally granted (if any) may not be large.

But the fact remains that the OP is entitled to apply for maintenance, can do so through the District court and does not need a Solicitor.

The Corinthian

Kildrought wrote: »

Yes that is the case - the student in question would have to establish that they were not in receipt of any support (and as I've already mentioned even bed and board at weekends is a form of support).

Isn't that a tad parasitic for a grown adult? We're not actually talking about a child any more, after all.

"the wife gets 100% of the family home in lieu of maintnance" as I'm sure you know a court order cannot be made to this effect as it is not legal.

I know, however it raises questions over what is just as opposed to legal. I can go on the Dole, if I so chose to, and happily live off the State for the rest of my life as long as I was clever enough about appearing to be looking for work.

Is it legal? Absolutely. Is it just? No.

embee

The Corinthian wrote: »

Isn't that a tad parasitic for a grown adult? We're not actually talking about a child any more, after all.

*applause*

To me, that is the fundamental issue. Are parents supposed to pay for their grown childrens weddings, houses, cars? In this day and age, if that does happen, it tends to be the exception rather than the rule.

Kildrought

the fundamental issue

The question was asked and correctly answered; that is the fundamental issue.

..are parents supposed to pay for their grown childrens weddings,...

No one has suggested that, the question is surrounding a full-time student under the age of 23.

The law provides a remedy where parents fail to fulfil their legal obligations in supporting their children; if you wish to start a debate on the rights and wrongs of that law starting another thread might be a good idea - though I'm willing to bet that has been done to death already!

The Corinthian

Kildrought wrote: »

The law provides a remedy where parents fail to fulfil their legal obligations in supporting their children; if you wish to start a debate on the rights and wrongs of that law starting another thread might be a good idea

Given you've accepted that there is a difference between what is moral and what is legal you might want to get off your pedestal next time you respond to embee and suggest she 'should know better'.

Kildrought

respond to embee and suggest she 'should know better'

The response you reference was in regards to a moderator who neither answered the question asked nor pointed to other sources of information, but offered their judgement only. My exact words were:

I would suggest that information and advice is far more useful than judgemental attitudes; and I have to say I would expect a moderator to know better.

I would consider that to be entirely fair comment.

"you've accepted that there is a difference between what is moral and what is legal" I did not make that statement anywhere - what I said was that if you wanted to debate the law itself another thread might be a good idea.

The question here has been asked and answered; in which case I would suggest to the mods that this is a good time to close this thread.

The Corinthian

Kildrought wrote: »

The response you reference was in regards to a moderator who neither answered the question asked nor pointed to other sources of information, but offered their judgement only.

That might dig you out of this one had you not offered your own moral justification for such an action:

But you wouldn't be ashamed of a parent who failed to provide any support whatsoever for 19 years?

So with respects you were certainly confusing the moral with the legal and then accusing others of doing same.

"Do as I say, don't do as I do."

Nevyn

Kildrought this is not in the legal discussion forum so you will get people coming at this from other angles, if you wanted that type of discussion you should requested that the orginal be moved to that forum rather then starting a thread after I locked the orginal query and suggested the op look for legal advise.

There is apoint where the state see that an adult in full time education is still the responsility of thier parents until they are 23. Otherwise an adult applying for grants for college would be presumed to live with thier parents or be supported by thier parents and the parents means would not be assesed.

Also the state will continue certain payments to a family such as single parent and fis if they qualify and they can with an adult child is in full time education until they reach the age of 23.

That being said, while the op has the legal recourse to go after his father I can understand why people wonder why he is bothering and would he not rather be his own man and has he taken his mother's feeling into consideration.

Kildrought

you wanted that type of discussion

I didn't propose any discussion! I would however suggest that if a discussion on the law itself is sought then another thread might be a better way of doing so.

But you wouldn't be ashamed of a parent who failed to provide any support whatsoever for 19 years?

This was in response to a parent stating they would be ashamed of their child if they applied to them for maintenance - so my (hypothetical) question is the reverse of the coin if you will. It is not a statement of my views.

....you were certainly confusing the moral with the legal and then accusing others of doing same.

On the contrary there is no such confusion in my mind! As I've already stated the OPs question was asked and has been fully and correctly answered.

The Corinthian

Kildrought wrote: »

This was in response to a parent stating they would be ashamed of their child if they applied to them for maintenance - so my (hypothetical) question is the reverse of the coin if you will. It is not a statement of my views.

So you refuted her need to introduce a non-legal dimension to the discussion by engaging her with a non-legal argument? Not terribly believable.

On the contrary there is no such confusion in my mind! As I've already stated the OPs question was asked and has been fully and correctly answered.

Your posts contradict this denial.

Kildrought

Now you are just arguing for the sake of it; I've nothing more to add to the OPs original question.

Susannahmia

I was going to just let this thread die out by itself at its own devices as I didn’t feel I had to explain my self to a bunch of strangers, however it has proved very controversial so I had better clear some things up.

I wasn’t trying to get money for myself; of course it would be handed over to my mother! I have had a job thus far in my college education and have tried not to be a parasite. It’s my final year this year and my mother has insisted that I do not work and she pay as she wants me to do well. I don’t like doing this and hate it that my father has basically got away scot free.. Her wage is just over the grant so I don’t get that.

The incident that prompted this question was that my father has recently cost my mother a lot of money. He refused to sign a simple form to say that a house my mother had bought after the separation was not a family home. He had no financial investment in this house by the way and no we don’t have two houses we had just never lived in it as we had always lived with my grand parents.

He tried to blackmail her into signing away all her rights to his inheritance; she did not want to do this as it might have affected my standing. He eventually agreed to sign the form when threatened with the court but because of the delay mam lost over seven thousand as the buyer wasn’t happy plus solicitor costs etc.

She needed all the money she could get as she wants to buy the family home (i.e. buy out her brothers and sisters) and its worth a lot more than our little house.

I know I shouldn’t be getting in the middle but this was the last straw for me really. His behaviour towards me and my mam has been unforgivable so I don’t see the sin of Making this man face some of his responsabilitys. So far he has shirked all of them. Money seems to be the only thing that speaks to him at all.

Anyway I have decided not to bother, There’s not much point Mam wouldn’t be refunded that much and she is afraid of the confrontation it would cause. It wouldn’t have caused one if I could have done it on her behalf, he is too ashamed to even look at me. I’m too old and It would be more hastle than its worth.

Thanks to the posters which gave me some helpful information, especially Kildrought.

The Corinthian

Kildrought wrote: »

Now you are just arguing for the sake of it; I've nothing more to add to the OPs original question.

No I'm just pointing out that you were talking rubbish and have been caught doing so.

imred wrote: »

I was going to just let this thread die out by itself at its own devices as I didn’t feel I had to explain my self to a bunch of strangers, however it has proved very controversial so I had better clear some things up.

I'm sorry for your situation, but if you post something on the Internet you will always find that some will pick you up wrong, some will assume the worst and some will just go off topic. At the end of the day, if you want to get exactly what you want in terms of advice, you should always employ a professional - otherwise you get what you pay for.

Susannahmia

The Corinthian wrote: »

.

I'm sorry for your situation, but if you post something on the Internet you will always find that some will pick you up wrong, some will assume the worst and some will just go off topic. At the end of the day, if you want to get exactly what you want in terms of advice, you should always employ a professional - otherwise you get what you pay for.

True true:rolleyes: Sorry my post did come off a tad defensive.(But I was a bit shocked when I saw some of the comments!).