Your Career in I.T.

DublinWriter

I'd like to ask anyone here working in I.T., especially those in their 30's, how they feel about their career in I.T.

Specifically, do you still enjoy working in that sector?, where do you see yourself in 5/10/20 years time? and are you happy within the technical/business track that you are currently in?

Jumpy

I started young so have already been through the horrible learning stages, so I can say I am pretty happy in what I do.
I wouldnt wish the first five years of support on anybody though, it is absolute soul crushing hell.
It gets better, but busier and more stressful.
Im not quite 30 yet, but I have been in IT for 12 years. Yeah Id say I enjoy it.
I would see myself in Consulting in 5 years (I should be in it now if it wasnt for the current job).

JæKæ

I'm 27, started in IT in '02 (dark times). Did my time in ****ty call centres. Then got a decent desktop role. Now branching into Sys Admin.
I'm still enjoying the challenges. There's always more areas to learn. I see myself staying in technical roles-no interest in management. Maybe a bit of linux or something

BostonB

Its gets stale if you don't move around and do different roles. Depends on the people and the project you are on. With the wrong people and the wrong project its woeful. With the right people and the right project its grand. IT is a big area so you'd need to more specific about what you are asking here. As working on the hardware is different to working with software etc.

I have thought about leaving IT when on a bad project but wouldn't want to start at the bottom doing something else. However I do find myself more interested in the business side of IT than the development side these days. Wouldn't mind a career break for a couple of years doing something else. Though I'm happy where I am at the moment.

I get the sense its more of a mid life crisis kind of a question. Which happens a lot around 30~40. Seems like theres a lot of Burn out in IT as people get past 30. These days people having a few different careers during their life is becoming more common.

monkey24

I have been in I.T since 2001, had good offers lined up after i graduated but decided to go traveling in the states. When i got back some 4 months later all those offers had dried up. I dont think my career has ever really got started and sometimes I feel so pigeon holed in the Techie Software Engineer roles its deeply frustrating seeing i know my strengths are in a more business/customer orientated role.
What can you do though, I am doing everything i can do make the transition, thats all i can do. I cannot do the whole total career change as I cannot afford to start at the bottom, too many bills.

I have had younger brothers going to Uni and I have advised them to not do I.T if possible. If I had the opportunity I would of done a general business related degree and then specialized in a certain area via an Msc.

dazberry

DublinWriter wrote: »

I'd like to ask anyone here working in I.T., especially those in their 30's, how they feel about their career in I.T.

I'm in my mid-30s, have written software for the last 14 years commerically - of all the things I do on a daily basis - software dev is my favourite. I really feel at the top of my game at the mo. but don't feel that I've had a career since 2002 - I feel that its just a series of jobs.

Specifically, do you still enjoy working in that sector?

Things were exceptionally carp for me after the IT crash - so 4 years ago I made the mistake of moving into finance. I find it ironic how highly regarded writing software in finance companies is held - when I've found it a pretty terrible, stressful and soul destroying experience.

where do you see yourself in 5/10/20 years time?

I'm actually pretty worried.

I love the dev tools that I use, but the problem is those tools are just not in demand, i.e. not dotNet or Java. Those few companies that are left are either IMO sh1t and/or just pay terrible money. What then happens is that the recruitment droids wet themselves when they see my CV, but very quickly loose interest.

I have done a lot of training and put a lot of time into moving into C#/dotNet - and although no expert could easily move into a role tomorrow. Apparently however the last 14 years don't actually count for anything so unless I resort to telling porkies on my CV - it doesn't look like I'm going anywhere soon. Ironically I'm now sw dev mgr where I work, and if I could make a business case I could bring in C#/dotNet tomorrow - problem is (and with good reason) I currently can't.

and are you happy within the technical/business track that you are currently in?

Not terribly no! I love the tools, not keen on the business - hate the job.

D.

mikeym

4 years experience in the software development field, java programming to be specific. starting to despise my job, too much pressure with too little reward and salary. planning on moving into the systems analyst role.

rick_fantastic

im only out of my primary degree a year and a half. nearly finished mbs in information systems.

did the whole helpdesk et al. during my four year comp sci degree in various places like dit, hp, insurance brokers.

for the last 15months been working 1-3rd level support / networking cisco, juniper, voip installation / citrix / exchange / server 2k + 03 / linux admin / it training and lots more. small IT dept supporting 150users throughout ireland and uk.

up til last week i was second in command but due to my boss leaving. at the moment we are implementing SAP FI/CO and in the next 12months we are migrating our systems to a centralised location in europe as well as moving all the rest of our systems to SAP.

so basically im doing my bosses job now as well as all the other tasks that need to be done. working long hours and lots from home but the stuff im doing is directly linked to my thesis on change management so i dont mind + the experience is really going to stand to me.

when all the IT function changes after the migration the hope is to move into a process anaylsis / management consultancy role within the company.

aim to be hitting australia in december 2009.

im 24.

seamus

Started at the end of '03. Did small-scale support till the end of '05 and then moved onto sys admin for year. Got a bit bored of that (though it was probably more to do with the environment than the work) before returning to my former employer as a business analyst. Well, that's my official title. My work is probably about 50% business analysis, 25% programming and 25% SAP "stuff".

If I had any recommendation to new entrants it would be to start as internal support for a medium-to-large company. Ideally one that's well-known. Avoid public support at all costs and if you get stuck in a small company, spend inordinate amounts of time in a sandbox messing with stuff to give yourself more exposure.

AARRRGH

Been working part-time from 1995 - 1999 and full-time since then.

Have jumped around a bit - hardcore development to web development to QA to finance.

Gotta say I enjoyed the finance bit - it really makes you see "the bigger picture".

IT is OK. I don't mind it. As a hobby I love it, as a job, it's OK.

There are certainly lots of better paid, easier jobs, e.g. marketing, sales, etc.

CraggyIslander

36 and been doing IT for 10 years now

1st job (1 year) was one from hell, deskside support for NT, novell, VMS and mishmash of clients for a large bank.... talk about jumping in the deep-end :eek:

Very soon after rolled into a smaller office (of larger american company) where looked after everything IT and was soon responsible for all european offices. Got bored and jumped to operations side and worked in massive datacentre's for a bit. Got bored again and did software development for few years.

Am now freelance IT Manager / Consultant for 3-4 companies and loving it My next project is a VoIP one

BostonB hits nail on head: Variety is the key to keep it interesting, different projects for different companies (some good, some bad but worth taking the chance)

knightmare

Been in IT about 10 years now, it pays the bills but I would also be worried about where I will be in another 10 years. The reality is If I had done a trade 10 years ago (Mechanic, Electrician, Welder Etc) it would have been much more beneficial financially.
I wouldn't recommend it as a career for anyone depsite what some academics from UCD might argue, the money is average & the rewards low IMO.

Eoin

seamus wrote: »

If I had any recommendation to new entrants it would be to start as internal support for a medium-to-large company. Ideally one that's well-known. Avoid public support at all costs and if you get stuck in a small company, spend inordinate amounts of time in a sandbox messing with stuff to give yourself more exposure.

You'll more likely get exposure to more technologies working for a small company - the larger ones tend to have quite distinct support groups. I started off in tech support for an SME and I got good exposure to a lot more technologies than if I had been stuck in the PC support group of a large company.

Anyhow, I've since moved on and have been doing software development for the last 8 or so years. Overall it's been pretty interesting as my dept in work get to trial lots of new mobile devices, and we generally get to use the latest tools - unlike many other dev depts here.

I'm moving on a few weeks though to take more of a mixed role in IT, as I can't see myself as being a coder for the rest of my career.

seamus

You're right. When I meant "small" I guess I meant, "You and maybe your boss" small

Small companies tend to restrict you more in what you can use - they want you to squeeze every bit of life out of hardware and software to save money. This can be good as you're driven by necessity to find out tweaks and tips for your assets and you get to know some real low-level stuff. But it can be bad because you may be a few years behind the industry on your hardware - your employer may not want to buy new hardware or software until the existing stuff is affecting the business (or you can make a good case).
In a bigger company, they're more likely to replace the stuff quicker, which gives more exposure to technology, but you may only get a passing glance at the stuff instead of the low-level details because as eoin_s points out, those technologies may not be for you to deal with.

Swindon

how about a career in computer forensics? i could see this area becoming very big over the next few years in ireland,i was thinking of maybe doing my masters in this area? anyone currently in this area?

The masters would consist of a 3 mth work placement and from what i heard everyone on the course got placed in a company...this could also cut out doing the tech support job as a graduate when finished
Not saying you would not be doing crappy work if u landed a job in forensics but the chances of pay rise & promotion would be increased i would think(depending on the company),a bit off topic i know but we all need to try make the right decisions...

DublinWriter

BostonB wrote: »

I get the sense its more of a mid life crisis kind of a question. Which happens a lot around 30~40. Seems like theres a lot of Burn out in IT as people get past 30.

There was a number of reasons why I originally started this thread.

For starters, I am of the firm opinion that the tech side of I.T. as a career has been seriously debased over the past 20 years. I doubt that many of the 20-something people currently working in I.T. at the moment will retain their current stamina levels when it comes to having to update/retake their vendor-specific certificate-level qualifications into their mid-30's.

Secondly, I believe that within the I.T. sector as a whole, there's a huge lack of talent in terms of management, especially in the large corporates. Most middle I.T. management I've come across in this sector have been complete COBOL burn-out cases with zero ability in team leadership/people management and are the living embodiment of The Peter Principle.

And lastly, I believe the current over-emphasis on Governance and Standardisation within corporate I.T. has completely stifled a risk-taking approach to I.T./I.S. management.

sgthighway

I'm 32 and have been in IT about 12 years. Currently a Sys Admin in a big multinational. Sys Admin stuff is boring ; backups/restores/permissions, but I get a lot of time to experiment/practice on new stuff coming out. Currently studying to get a few MCSE exams and teaching myself VMWARE.
Started in Desktop Support which was great but not very challanging after a few years. I have no interest in Management but would consider Consultancy down the road.

It is a non-stressful job but can get boring but once it pays the bills.....

Like a previous poster said; A few years ago there were loads of jobs but not anymore.

TheThreeDegrees

At thirty six and @ IT for 10 years.

Even at the very beginning during the call center roles,to please a customer was very satisfying.

Yeah you get your ****y days but then thats life isnt it,up and down?

Ive always contracted and I suppose that suits my personality as I am a bit of a wanderer!
I was never one for the "big rates" in fact I never discussed them when searching for jobs.
What is important for me is that every day I learn a little more and improve my skills and knowledge.
The rest is a bonus.

The future has yet to be determined and whats fantastic about our chosen careers is that tomoorw there is always something new happening!

leeroybrown

DublinWriter wrote: »

I'd like to ask anyone here working in I.T., especially those in their 30's, how they feel about their career in I.T.

Specifically, do you still enjoy working in that sector?, where do you see yourself in 5/10/20 years time? and are you happy within the technical/business track that you are currently in?

I'm under 30 and am not sure if I'd describe I.T. as a career. In fact, I avoid using the term I.T. unless I need a zero effort way to avoid describing what I do as it's a completely devalued term.

I work in a niche are of systems administration that is outside of normal I.T. areas with has an interesting and varied workload. I like my job but I reckon I'll soon hit a point where I'm applying exactly the same skills with pretty similar technologies and get bored. From what I've seen of I.T. as a sector there seems to be a '10 year burnout' where a lot people get to a position where they get sick of it and want to leave. This lines up well with this question's focus on people in their 30's. I guess the flat landscape of I.T. as a sector results in lots of people who just get paid slightly more year on year to do exactly the same thing and that's something I'm not interested in.

As regards the next 5/10/20 years, I'm not quite sure. There's a good chance I'll still be doing something that will fall under the broad umbrella of I.T. but I haven't made a decision about what exactly it will be or how I plan on getting there. I've already worked in three different areas of I.T. to get to where I am so who knows...

Eoin

DublinWriter wrote: »

There was a number of reasons why I originally started this thread.

For starters, I am of the firm opinion that the tech side of I.T. as a career has been seriously debased over the past 20 years. I doubt that many of the 20-something people currently working in I.T. at the moment will retain their current stamina levels when it comes to having to update/retake their vendor-specific certificate-level qualifications into their mid-30's.

Secondly, I believe that within the I.T. sector as a whole, there's a huge lack of talent in terms of management, especially in the large corporates. Most middle I.T. management I've come across in this sector have been complete COBOL burn-out cases with zero ability in team leadership/people management and are the living embodiment of The Peter Principle.

And lastly, I believe the current over-emphasis on Governance and Standardisation within corporate I.T. has completely stifled a risk-taking approach to I.T./I.S. management.

Some interesting points there. On your last point (Governance and Standardisation) - what exactly do you mean - compliance to standards? I've certainly noticed the difference in the last few years. My company had to be SarBox compliant, and the amount of new procedures was incredible.

However, that will always happen with the adoption of new procedures, and generally the processes are streamlined to better suit the business and day to day needs - it's a pendulum effect. Overall I think it's a good thing - the haphazard approach to IT support and development was very scary in my last company (height of the dot com era) - there were just no procedures around deploying, maintaining production systems.

I'm just about in my twenties, so can't comment on the stamina part of early 30's for another few months, but I can well imagine it. It's a tough one to call though - you need a lot of constant upskilling in IT, and in many cases, you have to start nearly from scratch when a new framework comes along. In finance and law for example, you do have to keep up-to-date, but I'd imagine that your knowledge isn't as obsolete as it would be in IT if you stopped learning (I don't think I've explained myself too well).

I think that the relationship between subordinates and managers in IT is quite different to the likes of accountancy. For example, if you're an accountant in a large firm - e.g. KPMG, you will pretty much automatically have people reporting into you within a few years, once you pass your exams. You know how to do everything that the subordinate has to do.

However, in IT, you can be a senior developer without ever having anyone reporting to you, and it's probable that a project manager - even a very good one - simply would not have the expertise to do what you do. You don't get the gradual experience of managing people, so when someone does go into IT management, their man-management / soft skills could be quite lacking.

DublinWriter

eoin_s wrote: »

Some interesting points there. On your last point (Governance and Standardisation) - what exactly do you mean - compliance to standards? I've certainly noticed the difference in the last few years. My company had to be SarBox compliant, and the amount of new procedures was incredible.

I mean where basically I.T. Management hasn't the remotest notion what to do in a particular scenario and substitute standards for leadership and basically common-sense.

Here's a classic example.

A client of mine decides it needs helpdesk software to handle internal IT issues. They approach one of the big six or five consultancy companies and spend about 50K with said company to commission a report.

The report is replete with phrases like 'best practice' and 'best of breed' etc, etc, it's basically a full-house if you're playing Dilbert Buzzword Bingo.

So basically, instead of asking the basic questions like 'is this software any good?' and 'is it actually usable?' they are asking 'is this software ITIL compliant?' and 'is this software ISO-9600 compliant?'.

Fast forward two years and said company has blown about 1 million on a dog of a system from a major international I.T. vendor. I won't mention the product or its company, but it's well known internationally to be a complete useless pig of a system.

End result? Client was blown about 1 million on a system that doesn't even integrate with HR and is practically unusable within their IT Helpdesk operation. Calls can't even be forwarded to 2nd level support.

Me? I could have taken on two I.T. graduates for a year and produced something that would have knocked the above system out of the field for about 100K.

But basically, when the third major I.T. consultancy that the client retains to 'audit' their I.T. function annually turns up to earn it's yearly 150K fee, they can tick all the boxes relating to the ITIL and ISO compliance of the Helpdesk operation.

In the meantime end-users aren't having their problems sorted in a timely manner but it doesn't really matter as end-users aren't the ones being questioned when the proficiency and compliance of the I.T. department gets audited.

Eoin

Right, I can see where you're coming from - our company has an awful implementation of a helpdesk package, but it manages to tick the boxes so they're not going to change it anytime soon. It's a little better than the one you're describing, but not by far.

Of course standards shouldn't replace common sense, but that doesn't mean they don't have an important place. "Best practise" is a pretty valid expression to use, I wouldn't consider amongst the worst of the buzzwords used.

BostonB

I have seen that situation a few times. But there are companies where that doesn't happen.

DublinWriter

eoin_s wrote: »

Of course standards shouldn't replace common sense, but that doesn't mean they don't have an important place. "Best practise" is a pretty valid expression to use, I wouldn't consider amongst the worst of the buzzwords used.

'Best practice' is one of the worst expressions, it's right down there with 'going forward'.

'Best practice' to me basically means "we haven't a clue what to do, so let's do what everyone else in the sector is doing".

You're right - standards are no substitute for common sense - but increasingly I see them being used as such.

run_Forrest_run

DublinWriter wrote: »

Specifically, do you still enjoy working in that sector?, where do you see yourself in 5/10/20 years time? and are you happy within the technical/business track that you are currently in?

I'm 30 and been working in IT (I hate that term!) for almost 10 years now. I went straight into development, I have never worked in IT
Support (thankfully ).

Sometimes I enjoy it but to be honest those times are getting shorter and shorter! I mainly like designing and writing code (Java & Eclipse RCP plugin development).
I hate the usual things like pointless meetings just so some nerd or middle manager can listen to the sound of their own voice for a while.

I also hate the bullsh*t from upper management about raising the bar and being the best...seriously they do not have a clue about the products we develop.

Anyway, where do I see myself in 5/10/20 years time?? - This has me baffled, seriously for sake of my career I feel I probably have to get out of development soon and either go the route of architecture, product management or project management....and I'm not getting a warm fuzzy feeling for any of those right now!

I have often considered a career change but always ended up scrapping it due to all the efforts I have put in to my current career and it is true, the first few years are the toughest so I wouldn't like to just throw all that away.

If I had to go back and do it all again would I do computers in college and career? - No.

BostonB

DublinWriter wrote: »

'Best practice' is one of the worst expressions, it's right down there with 'going forward'.

'Best practice' to me basically means "we haven't a clue what to do, so let's do what everyone else in the sector is doing".

You're right - standards are no substitute for common sense - but increasingly I see them being used as such.

I don't entirely agree with you there. When you have everyone pulling in different directions, it can be the common middle ground. Often best practice is the most common sense way to do things taking the long term view. Too often people take shortcuts because its only meant to be a quick and dirty project or application. 2 yrs later the project has grown beyond its original scope they are tied in knots because they ignored best practice. Then there those that do things differently for the sake of being different. TBH you know this within 5 mins of talking about a project, or their work.

Theres a balance to be stuck. Of course it depends who saying "best practise". Dilbert or the pointy-headed boss.