Why do Irish towns look like the 3rd world?

murphaph

Ok. Bit of an exageration but here goes. Why are we so slow to put electricity and telecoms infrastructure underground? Some lovely (and not so lovely) towns are ruined (or could be drastically improved) by getting shot of all those poles and wires. The rest of northern Europe is ahead of us on this and it makes a huge difference to the built environment IMO.

HT pylons, rural electricity supply and tram wires are to some extent unavoidable but local electricity and telecoms lines should all be underground in urban areas and there should be a plan to gradually make this a reality.

Agree or disagree? Do we deserve a better built environment?

SuperSean11

murphaph wrote: »

Ok. Bit of an exageration but here goes. Why are we so slow to put electricity and telecoms infrastructure underground? Some lovely (and not so lovely) towns are ruined (or could be drastically improved) by getting shot of all those poles and wires. The rest of northern Europe is ahead of us on this and it makes a huge difference to the built environment IMO.

HT pylons, rural electricity supply and tram wires are to some extent unavoidable but local electricity and telecoms lines should all be underground in urban areas and there should be a plan to gradually make this a reality.

Agree or disagree? Do we deserve a better built environment?

Disagree Its more hassle than good

murphaph

SuperSean11 wrote: »

Disagree Its more hassle than good

Care to elaborate? Would the reduced instances of downed power lines due to stormy weather be of any benefit in convincing you there's added value in submerging our infrastructure?

Do you believe overhead power/telecoms lines are visually intrusive or not?

SligoBrewer

How could it look like the 3rd world?

The 3rd world is the 3rd world 'cause it doesn't have any electricity, telecommunications, running water,etc. Hence no overhead wires..

It may be unsightly but it ain't 3rd world

SuperSean11

murphaph wrote: »

Care to elaborate?

They have to dig up all the road thatll cause even more traffic. If theres a problem on one cicuit of the underground lines theyll all have to be dug up to find the problem.

murphaph wrote: »

Would the reduced instances of downed power lines due to stormy weather be of any benefit in convincing you there's added value in submerging our infrastructure?

Due to what ive said above no

murphaph wrote: »

Do you believe overhead power/telecoms lines are visually intrusive or not?

No i dont think theyre intrusive Why would they be?

mike65

Across the water, and most of northern europe you don't see the spagetti infestation to anything like the same level.

Money is the reason of course. It clearly makes sense to put cables underground or in culverts but as the state had no money for anything beyond basic infrastructure it hadly a suprise the place looks as it does. Or that no-one has shouted "STOP" now that we can afford better.

Mike.

murphaph

SuperSean11 wrote: »

They have to dig up all the road thatll cause even more traffic.

Yes, roadworks would be required but the bulk of the lines would be run under footpaths, not the street.

SuperSean11 wrote: »

If theres a problem on one cicuit of the underground lines theyll all have to be dug up to find the problem.

Not true. You install it properly in proper conduit and it is far less likely to go wrong than when it's exposed to storm weather. It would lead to a more reliable power supply, not a less reliable one! The rest of civilised Europe already does this.

SuperSean11 wrote: »

No i dont think theyre intrusive Why would they be?

Because they look very messy. Poles and wires everywhere are not pleasant to look at. It's poor urban design.

Very few if any housing estates are built with overhead supply nowadays. Why not aim for this standard in our main streets?



any more?

simu

Most people in this country have no appreciation for aesthetic matters tbh (apart from swaddling themselves in tacky "designer" leisurewear in an attempt to look monied). Just look at the fugly semi-ds and bungalows plaguing the countryside!

BendiBus

simu wrote: »

Most people in this country have no appreciation for aesthetic matters tbh (apart from swaddling themselves in tacky "designer" leisurewear in an attempt to look monied). Just look at the fugly semi-ds and bungalows plaguing the countryside!

Yup! We're a bit crass, aren't we

Hopefully we'll grow out of it as we get used to being wealthy (if we manage to stay wealthy, that is!)

murphaph

Searching for images I found a lot of US city and town councils have "utility undergrounding" projects in play. They have some horrible streetscapes over there but even they seem to care more than us!

Example with before & after

SuperSean11

murphaph wrote: »

Yes, roadworks would be required but the bulk of the lines would be run under footpaths, not the street.


Not true. You install it properly in proper conduit and it is far less likely to go wrong than when it's exposed to storm weather. It would lead to a more reliable power supply, not a less reliable one! The rest of civilised Europe already does this.


Because they look very messy. Poles and wires everywhere are not pleasant to look at. It's poor urban design.

Very few if any housing estates are built with overhead supply nowadays. Why not aim for this standard in our main streets?



any more?

I see your point but it would be a lot of hassle and it would be expensive Maybe if we use underground systems on new developments and replace the old ones when we need to or over time.

murphaph

SuperSean11 wrote: »

I see your point but it would be a lot of hassle and it would be expensive Maybe if we use underground systems on new developments and replace the old ones when we need to or over time.

Yeah I don't expect them to dig up streets en masse and do it all tomorrow but I don't think there's too many local authorities which even aspire to replace end of life equipment with an underground alternative. I'd like to think that each authority had a plan but I doubt they do.

Carawaystick

Given the fairly poor infrastructure deficit here which is being rectified slowly, aesthetics of existing infrastructure would be down the priority list.

Also in the main we're talking about two companies here ESB and Eircom.
It could be feasible to put pressure on the ESB to hide their utilities, but seing as the govt can't force eircom to provide universal phone service in a decent timeframe let alone broadband, I couldn' see eircom spending money to underground their wires.

So it would boil down to govt ( local or central) paying the utility co.s to do this. Govt funding ultimately comes from the citizens.

mike65

Another point is the quality of road repairs, we all know when a utility company has been digging as the surface is always ruined afterwards.

Miek.

purple'n'gold

I have often travelled through Connemara, in my opinion the most beautiful part of Ireland. It is disgusting to see the landscape in the more rugged areas destroyed with cable strewn poles. Often the poles are leaning over and it all looks terrible. It would actually be easier in places like this to have the ESB cables underground.

Victor

mike65 wrote: »

Another point is the quality of road repairs, we all know when a utility company has been digging as the surface is always ruined afterwards.

This is because it is done piecemeal. If it is done in a coordinated fashion, everything on a particular street can be undergrounded in a programme of work that also involves rebuilding the surface of the street. This means no patches or filled trenches with temporary surfaces. Additional ducts can be provided for future services and new service providers. If they want to put in their own duct and dig up the rebuilt street, they have to pay to resurface the entire width of the street.

O'Connell Street and Harcourt Street would be good examples in Dublin.

murphaph

Indeed. It's worth noting that in many EU states the utilities run underground but not under the road way (except at junctions), instead running under the footpath.

As victor says. If the undergrounding programmes were coordinated with extra ducts being installed for future use, there would be no need for repeated digging of the streets.

It just takes a will to do it and a plan.

I personally would like my taxes to be used for such things and I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes to live in a nicer country. People in Ireland are generally not civic minded and are more interested in their own small piece of land.

darkman2

murphaph wrote: »

Ok. Bit of an exageration but here goes. Why are we so slow to put electricity and telecoms infrastructure underground? Some lovely (and not so lovely) towns are ruined (or could be drastically improved) by getting shot of all those poles and wires. The rest of northern Europe is ahead of us on this and it makes a huge difference to the built environment IMO.

HT pylons, rural electricity supply and tram wires are to some extent unavoidable but local electricity and telecoms lines should all be underground in urban areas and there should be a plan to gradually make this a reality.

Agree or disagree? Do we deserve a better built environment?

If you visited the 3rd World you would realise the error of this assertion once you got off the plane - No where in Ireland is anywhere close to the 3rd world.

r3nu4l

Ah lads, have any of you been to towns or cities in the UK other than London? Telephone poles and lines are very prevalent in England. I've lived in East Anglia (particularly Cambridge and surrounding area) for 3 years and can tell you that in that part of England telephone lines are above ground for the most part, even in Cambridge city.

It was one of the first things I noticed because coming from Dublin, all of the telephone lines in my area had been underground for years and I remember thinking how backward England was. I obviously hadn't realised it's still that way in smaller Irish towns

You may also be surprised to know that in many small towns and villages in England, the locals actually OBJECT to having cables placed underground.

In one village in Suffolk I was told by a local man protesting against the idea, that putting lines underground was "what Europe wants us to do" and he was objecting on the basis of "saying NO to Europe!" Needless to say, he was a Tory. :rolleyes:

mike65

Killnascuddy syndrome is everywhere!

r3nu4l if you travel round the small villages in much of England you won't see many wires. Indeed such modern intrusions are discouraged by conservation laws.

Mike.

murphaph

darkman2 wrote: »

If you visited the 3rd World you would realise the error of this assertion once you got off the plane - No where in Ireland is anywhere close to the 3rd world.

Did you read my post? I said "a bit of an exaggeration" wrt my 3rd world comment!

Of course the actual 3rd world is worse than here. :rolleyes:

Red Alert

In Ireland the government's first aim seems always to help its vested interest buddies. Such as traders in O'Connell Street, Dawson Street, Grafton Street with respect to the LUAS. I could go on. The trouble is that all over Ireland this type of thing is happening piecemeal so everywhere is a hodgepodge of nod-nod wink-wink exceptions where infrastructure's concerned.

r3nu4l

r3nu4l wrote: »

Ah lads, have any of you been to towns or cities in the UK other than London? Telephone poles and lines are very prevalent in England. I've lived in East Anglia (particularly Cambridge and surrounding area) for 3 years and can tell you that in that part of England telephone lines are above ground for the most part, even in Cambridge city.

It was one of the first things I noticed because coming from Dublin, all of the telephone lines in my area had been underground for years and I remember thinking how backward England was. I obviously hadn't realised it's still that way in smaller Irish towns

I used to live in that part of the world, yes there are lots of overhead cables in most small villages, often there is a project to remove them from the high street (the pretty one) but leave the side streets alone.

All developments after about 1950 have underground services.

r3nu4l wrote: »

You may also be surprised to know that in many small towns and villages in England, the locals actually OBJECT to having cables placed underground.

In one village in Suffolk I was told by a local man protesting against the idea, that putting lines underground was "what Europe wants us to do" and he was objecting on the basis of "saying NO to Europe!" Needless to say, he was a Tory. :rolleyes:

Some people just don't get it...:mad:

If they had their way we'd still have lsd (old money not the drug) & imperial measurements..:rolleyes:

ardmacha

Whatever about the third world, the ugly wirescape is one of the ways in which Ireland looks like a country much poorer than it is. In Eastern Europe, in countries less prosperous than this one, most wires are underground and you can see work putting cables underground. In Ireland the ESB is the culprit. If you travel from South to North you do not see a vast difference in the telephone plant, but you do in the presence of ugly electricity poles on main streets. That said some local authorities in the 26 counties are better than others at removing these wires. While everything cannot be done immediately, it is great waste when streets are widened and everything is dug up for months, yet electricity cables are not placed underground during these works. The marginal cost of doing this when other works are taking place would be small.