Belgium?

mike65

Western Europes least stable state looks to be heading towards its "end game" phase as another attempt to form a viable government fails. Its now 175 days since the state had a government.

Story

If it does splinter, the irony shall not be lost on the inhabitants of 24 other states that take some of thier orders from a "failed state".

Mike.

murphaph

If (and I still believe its' a big if) Belgium splits then it may well have a knock on effect for other states, such as the United Kingdom and possibly Italy.

It seems (from what I've seen on TV) that at least some of the Flanders politicians resent the economic support they give to Wallonia. This situation is not uncommon-it happens everwhere to a degree. There is obviously more of a cultural divide in Belgium as the two regions speak different languages.

If it splits expect an increase in activism from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liga_Nord.

silverharp

it would be interesting to see the effect on the Euro. bond rates have started to move in different countries which indicate that at the margin the market is pricing in that individual countries might be forced to leave it.

DublinWriter

My friends over there tell me that everywhere people are flying the Belgian flag from their windows to show that they support a united Belgium.

This act in itself is incredible when you consider that your average Belgian is very averse to such displays of patriotism.

175 days without a government? Maybe we should take a leaf from their book.

murphaph

DublinWriter wrote: »

175 days without a government? Maybe we should take a leaf from their book.

I'm sure the few days the dail sits a year we aren't too far from them already!

brianthebard

murphaph wrote: »

If (and I still believe its' a big if) Belgium splits then it may well have a knock on effect for other states, such as the United Kingdom and possibly Italy.

I don't think its that big an if tbh. One group wants to merge with France and polls have shown that the French don't mind. I don't know which is which, but one group (wallons I think) have been propping up the Flemish population (or vice versa) basically since the state was assembled by the bigger nations that surround it. Many people in Belgium still feel no real affinity with the state after all these years, and there is no real cultural identity holding them together. They speak two different languages, after 190 years!

mike65

The "Dutch" Flemish have been subventing the Walloons for the last 40 years or so. The Flems don't want to merge with the Netherlands as they are hard working free market types who reckon they could make thier own way, the Walloons are much more French-socialist so would be happy to be propped up by Paris.

Mike.

BarryCreed

i spent 4 months there in 98/99 on Erasmus in Liege (Walonie/French speaking), there was a Flemish guy in one of my classes, who lived an hour away on the train in Flanders, and he was more or less on Erasmus too, in his own country!!
It's a strange situation. Driving from Liege to Brussels was mad, the signs kept changing lang so often, and being in Flanders, was like being in different country (compared to Liege.) It's kind of a crossroads of europe really innit..?
Did notice a similar north/south divide in Italy, more than I realised was possible. (goes someway in explaining the soccer rivalry over there).

A funny one: what about the "us" and "them" between the Dubs, and those beyond the pale....

DublinWriter

brianthebard wrote: »

I don't think its that big an if tbh. One group wants to merge with France and polls have shown that the French don't mind.

Are you sure about this?!? The Wallons and the French might speak the same language but I don't think that they really like each other.

I know that that's very much the truth for the Flemish and Dutch. I used to go up to Holland many times with my Flemish friends and the people in the cafes/pubs would pretend not to be able to understand the Flems when the spoke Flemish (basically, heavily accented Dutch).

Although they speak different languages, The Flemish and Wallons are very similar in national character. Although most speak English perfectly, they prefer to stick to their own kind.

There's also a German speaking community of about 40,000 in the east of Belgium.

It would be sad to see Belgium go. If a country with four ethnic groups such as Switzerland can hold together, then I can't see why Belgium cannot.

Belgians are very practical and pragmatic people.

murphaph

....and Belgium has the world's only fully street lit motorway network.

djpbarry

DublinWriter wrote: »

My friends over there tell me that everywhere people are flying the Belgian flag from their windows to show that they support a united Belgium.

I was in Brussels a few weeks ago and I noticed this myself - flags absolutely everywhere. Didn't notice much in the way of disquiet though; I can’t really imagine Belgians getting too worked up about anything.

Lockstep

mike65 wrote: »

the Walloons are much more French-socialist so would be happy to be propped up by Paris.

I disagree. I lived in Belgium for seven years and the Walloons seem to have an inbuilt distrust of France. Maybe it's because they are so fed up of being mistaken for being French, I'm unsure as to the exact reason but the Walloons hope to be part of a united Belgium wheras many Flemish people would prefer to be part of Flanders.


A few months ago, some TV station did a fake news report that Belgium had split. There was uproar amongst the people I knew, they were horrified.


The biggest reason that there is such animosity amongsts Flemish and Walloons, other than historic reasons, is of money. Flanders has an unemployment of 8% and Walloon has an unemployment of 20%. The Flemish feel they shouldn't have to fork out for Walloon laziness.