espresso machine query

Derek Zoolander

quick question from a newbie coffee head
...

i got an espresso machine and bought illy ground beans which will work fine...but i also bought some java republic ground stuff..but didn't know to buy the filter or the plunger grind...I ended up going for the plunger one as I figured it would be finer and i thought thats what i would need...

can anyone confirm if i bought the right one...don't have a grinder so couldn't get the espresso beans

Mr Magnolia

I'm afraid neither of those are the grind type you were looking for.

It sounds like this to me, the filter grind you purchased is used in the 'drip' type machine. The plunger grind is also a coarser grind than you require and is used in french press type applications.

Normally a ground coffee suitable for espresso will have it written on it

rockbeer

You need to buy coffee marked suitable for espresso machines. Better still, get a decent grinder and grind your own.

Gran Hermano

As both Rockbeer and Mr Magnolia have already stated the only grind
suitable for an espresso machine is 'espresso grind'. In my experience
the best pre-ground available in supermarkets is Illy, I found Lavazza
slightly coarser (meaning the espresso was flowing too fast).

You should be able to pick up Illy in Superquinn, Tesco or Avoca Cafes.

Stick a decent grinder on your Christmas wish list if you can, you will
not regret it!

74merc

I did a 1/2 day barista course with Gaggia recently. According to the instructor none of the pre-ground coffee is suitable for an expresso machine. I bought a grinder and vacuum canister from them - beans will keep for a month or so before deteriorating.

rockbeer

74merc wrote: »

I did a 1/2 day barista course with Gaggia recently. According to the instructor none of the pre-ground coffee is suitable for an expresso machine. I bought a grinder and vacuum canister from them - beans will keep for a month or so before deteriorating.

You did a barista course and they didn't mention it was called eSpresso?

Obviously they had an interest in selling you some kit, as what they told you isn't quite true... you can - and people do - make espresso with pre-ground coffee. What is true is that the result is infinitely superior using fresh-ground coffee from a grinder adjusted for the particular machine.

I'd be very interested to compare the same beans kept in your vacuum canister for a month as against genuine fresh-roasted.

74merc

To be honest there was no hard sell to buy any of their products, though I did get a few quid off. I'd take fresh roasted beans everytime versus old beans, but beans stored in a vacuum canister is the next best thing. What we were taught in the course is that a perfect eSpresso extraction takes 18-22 secs. Given that the pressure of the tamp should always be the same, the only variable to hit this window is the grind of the beans. So if the extraction is taking less time, you must make the grind finer and vice versa. If you buy pre-ground beans, you have taken this option away.

Gran Hermano

I'd go so far as to say there are more variables to a good espresso than just
the fineness of the grind.

For example, the level of tamp is open to fluctuation. Even if you take grind as
constant, I'd also adjust for age of beans, level of roast and humidity.

I let my beans sit/degas for 24-36 hours after I roast them and grind fresh
for each shot. I only roast enough beans at a time to last me 4-5 days.

rockbeer

74merc wrote: »

What we were taught in the course is that a perfect eSpresso extraction takes 18-22 secs.

That's actually quite fast... opinions vary on this, but up to 30 seconds is commonly reckoned to be fine, sometimes even longer, while 18 in my opinion is probably a bit of a 'gusher' and too fast to extract the maximum flavour from the beans.

Also it depends on whether you count from the moment you press the button or from when the first drips appear at the spouts.

74merc wrote: »

Given that the pressure of the tamp should always be the same, the only variable to hit this window is the grind of the beans. So if the extraction is taking less time, you must make the grind finer and vice versa. If you buy pre-ground beans, you have taken this option away.

Absolutely agree; in an ideal world the tamp, water temperature etc. should remain consistent and only the grind should be varied in order to adjust the length of the shot. Of course in a real-life scenario this is often not possible. Did you ever see a professional barista adjust the grinder before pouring a ristretto or lungo? It's far more common in a commercial situation to adjust the tamp to reduce/extend the shot (or just cut the shot short for a ristretto). In the same way, adjustment to the tamp pressure can be used to compensate for the imperfect grind to extract an acceptable espresso from pre-ground. Of course the pre-ground must be basically fine enough for espresso - it'll never work with filter grind for instance. Also, since beans go stale so quickly after being ground, the crema is almost guaranteed to be disappointing, if there's one at all.

I'm not advocating making espresso from pre-ground, just saying it can be done in a pinch. Wouldn't want to do it myself though