confession,faith loss and thoughts on god.

DrumSteve

over the last few years i thought i was losing my faith but its
actually more a case of that i believe in god but i dont accept the church. I was at mass last week and it felt so impersional...like i was a drone just sitting there saying a preconditioned response that means nothing to me.

I do believe in a higher spiritual power (call him god or whatever you want) and i dont believe the bible literally rather i think it to be mostly a set of stories to give guidance in your life. I also think that humans have the capacity to be both God and The Devil. We can create life AND take it away.

I believe in evolution because i am a scientist at heart. Creationism just doesn't cut it for me.

I went to a chrisitian brothers school so i've had it always in my life but it is no part of me now.

Think of me what you will. Im not disparaging anyone's beliefs just saying my own.

BrianCalgary

Hey steve
I know exactly how you feel. I was raised in the Anglican church, felt something missing. I started to go to other churches ended up at the RC church for a number of years. The same emptiness hit.

My wife and I then embarked on a journey together to discern God's leading to a church. We found one where we have been able to grow and to use our Spirit given gifts to glorify God and disciple others.

Seek God's counsel on which church He would have you go to. Be it a different RC congregation with a different priest or an altogether different denomination.

There are those here who would help you in finding that.

Blessings

Run_to_da_hills

I would suggest the Alpha course, Its an interactive course recognised by all denominations
and is an opportunity for anyone to explore the Christian faith over a ten week period. The class starts off with a Video presentation and then a round table discussion about the video. An evening a meal is provided. http://www.alphacourse.ie/

Splendour

DrumSteve wrote: »

I believe in evolution because i am a scientist at heart. Creationism just doesn't cut it for me.

You can be both a 'scientist at heart' and still believe in God! I attended a conference recently in Maynooth college entitled 'God and Science' which was organised by Christians in Science Ireland. One of the talks was entitled "Evolution, Intelligent and Designed'.

I think, as suggested by RRTH the Alpha Course is a great way to explore Christianity. Could well be an eye opener for you Steve as it was for me. (Though in our church we only get biscuits )

Run_to_da_hills

Splendour wrote: »

I think, as suggested by RRTH the Alpha Course is a great way to explore Christianity. Could well be an eye opener for you Steve as it was for me. (Though in our church we only get biscuits )

The DEC gave out a buffet style meal before the video and desert with coffee during the discussion!, on the last night they had pizzas delivered!

gillyfromlyre

What a lot of people don't get is that god isn't in another dimension or up in the clouds looking down, its you and he/she, everyone else, one love, its the ground beneath your feet, stars at night etc, people take the bible too literally ,creationism rubbish, so is big bang, an accidental universe is really far fetched to me, nobody knows, we're too self obsessed to know i reckon

kelly1

DrumSteve wrote: »

over the last few years i thought i was losing my faith but its actually more a case of that i believe in god but i dont accept the church.

Hello DS

Do you mind telling us what it is about that Church that you don't accept?

DrumSteve wrote: »

I was at mass last week and it felt so impersional...like i was a drone just sitting there saying a preconditioned response that means nothing to me.

I really don't mean to sound condescending but do you understand the true meaning of the Mass? Do you realize that the Mass is the re-presentation (not representation) of Christ's sacrifice on the cross to God the Father in atonement for our sins? In every Mass, the sacrifice of Calvary is offered by Jesus in an unbloody manner to plead for our salvation. Mass is really more about giving than receiving. The Mass is *the* most powerful prayer on earth. And you and I can offer the Holy Sacrifice to the Father just like the priest can. This offering is far more effective than normal prayers because we are offering Jesus to the Father and not our finite selves.

Why do you go to Mass? What does God mean to you? Do you want to have a personal relationship with Jesus? What is your ultimate goal in life?

God bless,
Noel.

DrumSteve

thanks for all your kind suggestions...

but i just cant see myself doing a course or whatnot to reaffirm my faith.

What do i not like about the church? I guess the abuses of power over the last 1000 years has summit to do with it. I just can't understand how a group of men can elect god's representative on earth. Surely if he's god's representative shouldn't god elect him himself? Because if he doesnt then isnt that just false representation?

I know you say its a re-enactment of christs last mass... but did christ constantly tell his people to chant in unison and whatnot. Maybe he even passed around a collection plate (lol just kiddin!).

All i'm saying is that isn't it okay for me to have a God that is personal to me? That I dont need to go through a middle man just for it to be okay to talk to him...

Much love.

Steven.

kelly1

DrumSteve wrote: »

What do i not like about the church? I guess the abuses of power over the last 1000 years has summit to do with it.

Believe me it pains me when I'm reminded of the abuses over the years. Despite all this I still believe the Church is divinely appointed to carry on Christ's saving work. The clergy are subject to sin and temptation like the rest of us and individuals do commit terrible sins and will suffer for it come judgement day. The Church is only holy by virtue of the graces that flow from the Head of the Church who is Christ.

DrumSteve wrote: »

I just can't understand how a group of men can elect god's representative on earth. Surely if he's god's representative shouldn't god elect him himself?

How would that work in practice? God uses people as His instruments.

DrumSteve wrote: »

I know you say its a re-enactment of christs last mass... but did christ constantly tell his people to chant in unison and whatnot. Maybe he even passed around a collection plate (lol just kiddin!).

What's wrong with having a choir singing God's praises?

DrumSteve wrote: »

All i'm saying is that isn't it okay for me to have a God that is personal to me? That I dont need to go through a middle man just for it to be okay to talk to him...

When you say "middle-man", do you mean Jesus or the Church?

Peace,
Noel.

JimiTime

DrumSteve wrote: »

thanks for all your kind suggestions...

but i just cant see myself doing a course or whatnot to reaffirm my faith.

You really don't need to anyway.

What do i not like about the church? I guess the abuses of power over the last 1000 years has summit to do with it. I just can't understand how a group of men can elect god's representative on earth. Surely if he's god's representative shouldn't god elect him himself? Because if he doesnt then isnt that just false representation?

I am a Christian who has no denomination. Similar feelings as the one above started me on a road to what I would consider enlightenment. For obvious reasons, a Catholic will not see it as such because they are completely accepting of their Church as 'the one true church'. However, trying to reconsile such a thing with the past incidents and attrociteies, and much of its present setup with Christ-like behaviour is indeed impossible. Personally I would say you are in a position of true potential. You have come to a realisation that something doesn't quite fit. Where you go from here is the key. The 2 main roads that I can see, is a) Cut God out of your life on the basis of how he has been represented to you by the catholic Church. Or b) Get to know God without having the CC as your middle man. Strip away everything you think you know and start again. If you are honestly seeking the truth, ask God to help you find truth.

I know you say its a re-enactment of christs last mass... but did christ constantly tell his people to chant in unison and whatnot.

I empathise with this. It turns into meaningless mumbles. Ritualistic rather than thought provoking. I had the same problem with mass and stil do at the various weddings and funerals i would attend.

All i'm saying is that isn't it okay for me to have a God that is personal to me? That I dont need to go through a middle man just for it to be okay to talk to him...

God 'is' personal. Our mediator with God is Jesus Christ. There are many earthly organisations which claim to have the only line to him, but thats what religion does generally. It sells you a product, i.e. Salvation. However, faith is not religion. Faith is something that exudes from your heart. Its a way of life. Christ gave us an invaluable lesson when he said 'A tree will be known by its fruits'. This shows us that if someone is talking about God and Christ etc, yet is by their actions, showing opposition to Christ, then they are false. We have been given the tools to see falsehoods. We have scripture, and we have prayer. Put your faith in Christ and not in man made organisations, and allow Christ build you up.

Many here would doubt my Christianity, and I am as weak and prone to error as the next person. However, the thing I have is Love, Faith and honesty. With these three things, you are well equipped to search for truth. I am still searching, and it has been a great journey for me so far. You have scripture. With the advent of the internet you have forums like this, you have info at the touch of a button. Chew through what you can, but always remain honest and in prayer and suplication ask God for guidance.

I truly hope you embark on such a journey.
Jimi.

DrumSteve

kelly1 wrote: »

What's wrong with having a choir singing God's praises?

believe me there is nothing wrong with that when im not listening to rock or metal there is nothing i like more than to listen to than faure or verdi or rossini. the music is beauty.

and thank you jimitime what you said helped a lot. I feel im on a similar path to yourself.

beans

JimiTime wrote:

you are well equipped to search for truth. I am still searching, and it has been a great journey for me so far

I'm sure you've received responses along the lines of 'There is only one truth, you MUST accept it, there's nothing to search for beyond this truth' before?

I find this attitude to spirituality to be claustrophobic and unproductive. I agree with your post almost in it's entirity

JimiTime

DrumSteve wrote: »

and thank you jimitime what you said helped a lot. I feel im on a similar path to yourself.

Your welcome. Glad it related to you. I've been accused of alot in my questioning and current conclusions. Be prepared for being accused of heracy, of not being a 'real' christian etc. There is alot of fear in people out there when you question some 'truths' they believe. There is alot of stuff that you can be taken in by also, i know this from experience. Just have your wits about you, and be honest. If you are going to be reading the bible, be aware that there are various translations etc. So if something doesn't sit right, cross check it with other translations. Have to say, its very enjoyable as an academic scenario as well as a spiritual journey.
I wont ramble anymore, and i hope i didn't sound condescending.

Take care.
J.

Beans wrote:

I'm sure you've received responses along the lines of 'There is only one truth, you MUST accept it, there's nothing to search for beyond this truth' before?

Yes, thats fairly common. Jehovahs Witnesses and Catholics are fairly adament of their 'truths', they'd be the common candidates for this type of response. Even some of the more open folks though, have certain bounderies you must not cross.

I find this attitude to spirituality to be claustrophobic and unproductive.

Certainly when one is looking for truth it is. To leave your spiritual health in another mans hands is both lazy and dangerous IMO.

I agree with your post almost in it's entirity

As a matter of curiosity, what didn't you agree with?

beans

I think that was more of a casual caveat that I stuck in without thinking about it, but after re-reading if I had to pick out what caused that feeling in me while posting first time around, it would be the 'Jesus being the mediator with God' thing. I don't believe there's need for a mediator, living or dead.

RAMADAN

I can identify with the sense of emptiness mentioned above. For me, in part, the problem is that I usually go home from church on Sunday still hungry. In most RC church's (and I suspect in most others as well) the standard of preaching is abysmal, the understanding of liturgy deeply deficient, the sense of reverence entirely absent, and the awareness of the Spirit zilch. Most priests cannot even follow the set rubrics. A great deal of what passes for homiletics is an unrelenting, thoughtless, unprepared moralising. Much of the focus could pass for Unitarianism rather than Christianity.

It is not that I expect too much: a little food for the soul, encouragement for the Spirit, a challenge to the intellect.

The RC liturgy recognises Christ in the people, the Word, the Eurcharist and the communal prayer. Sadly, the entire focus seems to be on the Eucharistic presence in the sense of the bread alone. Some places stgill have alar servers holding pattens at communion: for God's sake, there are bigger crumbs at stake!

Oh, the hungry sheep look up and are not fed.