Yawn.... yet another speeding/summons fine question

Tipperarymike

Hi all,

As the very original title suggests, this is another boring speeding/summouns question. I searched most of the posts relating to same but couldnt really find one that relates to my particular problem. So here goes, if anyone has any advice it would be greatly appreciated, in Sept 06 I got clocked doing 80/kmh in a 60 zone, near Newlands Cross, no problem, fair cop. Pay the fine, end of. I was driving my fathers car at the time so wasnt going to let him take the hit. The letter arrived in the post soon after and I sent away the cheque or at least so I thought I did, next thing I heard at the time was that it was gone beyond the due date and a summons would be issued. Consulted a garda I vaguely know at the time and he said that there was nothing that could be done about it. Summons duly arrived yesterday, dated 10 Aug 2007, in my fathers name to appear in court in Dublin next Friday. Now I guess he would have to appear himself but as he had a stroke since the time of the fine, he really isnt fit to get to Dublin. Now maybe I could appear instead, I dont know, but I am travelling to Boston on Tuesday so I wont be around either. So such is my quandry, what to do next. One person last night told me to write a letter to the garda in question and explain the situation. How this would help I am not sure, as without knowing him I am sure they most likely are sick of people trying to get out of things.

So, if anyone is still reading this and not exasperated by these post, has any clues as to what I should do next that would be great

Mike

XDA

You'll have to find someone to appear on your fathers behalf. Given the complex situation, with you not being around to answer the charge I would suggest you need to get a solicitor to appear for you.

You are likely to end up with a stiff fine and 4 points.

If you don't send someone to act on your fathers behalf he will end up with a much higher fine and possibly a driving ban for non-appearance in court.

XDA

Tipperarymike

Cheers XDA,

Makes sense what you are saying, however I wonder is there any point in me trying to get it deferred until I make the appearance myself at maybe the next court sitting?

Mike

bcmf

Was the cheque cashed??? If so then argue to the judge that the Garda or whoever cashed the cheque and urs their problem.If the cheque hasnt been cashed get a solicitor.Dont try and argue this yourself.You will get stung badly.

bbability

Have you got the Stub of the written cheque? Has it been cashed? If so, all that you need to do is get a brief to attend court and have the hearing put back. If not bring cheque book and if you sent the letter via registerd post to the fines office bring that also. This has happened in the past. If you wrote a cheque to pay the fine within the time allocated to pay the speeding ticket you might have a chance of just getting away with paying the original fine and the 2 points. Some of the judges out there are human you know;)

Tipperarymike

No, just did a cheque search and it wasnt cashed, which means that it must have been sent back but I didnt receive it if it had been. Of course I didnt send it by registered post either, so thats a fk up on my behalf, goes along with the others in this story! Looks like I will just have to get a solicitor up in Dublin and take the hit,chalk it down to experience and stay below the speed limits, easier said than done too.

dub_mk_iii

Not correct or ethical, but if the stroke means your Dad won't be driving again then maybe let him take the hit.

But obviously if there's any chance he's fit to drive again, then you take the points (hopefully only 2)

bcmf

No it will be 4 points and a steep fine.The judge will look at it as simply not paying the fine and points.Get a good solicitor.But expect to be out of pocket up to E1000 plus 4 points.Approx E300 for your fine plus the balance for the solicitor.

Mr.Boots

I had something simalar happen to me before for a parking ticket, i paid the fine but still got a summons, i couldnt appear on the court date so i wrote a letter to the judge explaing my situation in detail and handed it into the court clerk....that was the last i heard of it. 8ish years ago.
They arnt going to look to heavily at this, its not a major thing, your not a criminal, you dont need evidence...its just a clerical error.
If you explain this in your letter i would be sure your in the clear.
99% of judges are good undersatnding people.

bcmf

Mr.Boots wrote: »

I had something simalar happen to me before for a parking ticket, i paid the fine but still got a summons, i couldnt appear on the court date so i wrote a letter to the judge explaing my situation in detail and handed it into the court clerk....that was the last i heard of it. 8ish years ago.
They arnt going to look to heavily at this, its not a major thing, your not a criminal, you dont need evidence...its just a clerical error.
If you explain this in your letter i would be sure your in the clear.
99% of judges are good undersatnding people.

It's the other 1% that willl screw you.Not so long ago I saw a fella in court who the Garda claimed he didnt stop at a stop sign.The fella had a solicitor and an INDEPENDENT witness to say that he did stop.The Garda didnt seem to convincing but he still got fined €300 plus the solicitors fee plus (probably) witness expenses and the judge was considered to be a lenient 1.......

Tipperarymike

when you put it like that. Those solicitors do like to charge alright. Been trying to contact the garda on the summons anyway to explain what happened and how my father will be unable to attend, and how the fault was mine in the first place. After three days still no reply or call back, so yesterday evening I sent a registered letter to him, so surely he will have to contact before the hearing. Either way I guess its fait accompli and this stage and can only get better not worse!!!

Cheers all for the posts so far

Mike

bbability

Tipperarymike wrote: »

when you put it like that. Those solicitors do like to charge alright. Been trying to contact the garda on the summons anyway to explain what happened and how my father will be unable to attend, and how the fault was mine in the first place. After three days still no reply or call back, so yesterday evening I sent a registered letter to him, so surely he will have to contact before the hearing. Either way I guess its fait accompli and this stage and can only get better not worse!!!

Cheers all for the posts so far

Mike

Don't lose sleep over it... it will be sorted and as I said before most Judges and in fairness gardai are human. Its the minority that give them a bad rep..

Wishbone Ash

Tipperarymike - did you accidently send a cheque with a greater amount than the actual fine?

maidhc

bcmf wrote: »

No it will be 4 points and a steep fine.The judge will look at it as simply not paying the fine and points.Get a good solicitor.But expect to be out of pocket up to E1000 plus 4 points.Approx E300 for your fine plus the balance for the solicitor.

700 for a solicitor for a morning in the district court? I wish money could be made that easily.

Pity you can't go yourself, if you could, if you came across as a genine person you would get off light enough. 4 points are a certainty though, they are applied by some penpusher somewhere and the judge has nothing to do with them.

Jeapy

Something similar happened to my Mum. My brother was fined for parking on a double yellow line and when the fine came, it wasnt opened on time (due to a family death). When it was realised, time was up. She sent a cheque anyway but they posted it back. She spoke to the garda who refused to drop the charge and it went to court. She hired a solicitor to appear, as she couldnt attend. The solicitor showed a copy of the death cert, the original letter date, the cheque that was sent too late etc.
The judge ate the garda for persuing a matter that Mum was clearly trying to resolve. She was just left with the fine. End of.
Good luck with yours!

pa990

maidhc wrote: »

4 points are a certainty though, they are applied by some penpusher somewhere and the judge has nothing to do with them.

i believe the wording is something along the lines of

Up to a maximum of 4 points.. which means the judge can decide how many to impose.. whether it be 1, 2, 3 or 4 or even maybe none at all

maidhc

pa990 wrote: »

i believe the wording is something along the lines of

Up to a maximum of 4 points.. which means the judge can decide how many to impose.. whether it be 1, 2, 3 or 4 or even maybe none at all

No, the judge has nothing to do with points.

Mr.Boots

The judge has the last word on all court cases.....hence the word the "judge"

pa990

maidhc: go to traffic court on anglesea st. usually 2pm on a thursday in court room 1

and sit there for a few hours.. then come back and tell us if the judge has nothing to do with points

Armin_Tamzarian

Simple, ignore it.
A Garda will prob call to the house after the non-appearance at which point your father's situation re the stroke can be explained, aswell as the fact that from your point of view the fine was paid.
In my experience judges nearly always strike out in relation to speeding / minor traffic violations when the defendant doesn't show up in court.

MrPudding

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

Simple, ignore it.
A Garda will prob call to the house after the non-appearance at which point your father's situation re the stroke can be explained, aswell as the fact that from your point of view the fine was paid.
In my experience judges nearly always strike out in relation to speeding / minor traffic violations when the defendant doesn't show up in court.

That makes court a bit pointless then, doesn't it. Would you mind if I ask what your experience is?

MrP

Armin_Tamzarian

MrPudding wrote: »

That makes court a bit pointless then, doesn't it. Would you mind if I ask what your experience is?

MrP

I don't see how it makes court pointless.
It's not as if we're talking about a murder charge being struck out.
The fact of the matter is that for lots of trivial matters, such as speeding,
judges will strike out the charge if the Gardaí have difficulty in getting the
defendent to court.
Maybe it's to keep court costs down or perhaps it's because judges are relucatant to issue bench warrants for such offences.
This occurs nearly every day in relation to cases involving defendents from outside the juristiction (Northern drivers being the majority of these).
In the case of the original poster where the father has suffered a stroke and there's also dispute in relation to culpability, it is highly likely
that the case would end up being struck out if nobody made an appearance at the court.

This is not to say that this is an easy way to avoid speeding penalties, it's not.
If for example you decided to ignore your speeding ticket and then ignore the inevitabel court summons that followed you could expect a visit from the Gardaí.
If you were to more or less laugh in the Garda's face and tell him to get lost then this would be recounted to the judge at the relevant court date.
At this point I'm sure the judge would look none too kindly at your two-fingers to the system and would't hesitate to issue a bench warrant and have you prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Basically, when the matter before the court is trivial.
If there's some genuine reason why a defendant can't make it to court or the Gardaí cannot locate said person then the matter is quite likely to be struck out.
This will not apply to the majority of people who are simply trying it on.

maidhc

pa990 wrote: »

maidhc: go to traffic court on anglesea st. usually 2pm on a thursday in court room 1

and sit there for a few hours.. then come back and tell us if the judge has nothing to do with points

I do be there a lot. Con O'Leary has no discretion as to how he applies penalty points, He can find you guilty or not guilty, if he finds you guilty of the offence, the penalty points as laid out in the 2002 RTA must follow as sure as night follows day.

(Btw ignoring a summons is BAD idea. You can well be convicted in your absence)

pa990

radhairc: Yes con O'Leary does give the max points... but it is at his discretion..

there is absolutely nothing stopping him for giving lesser points.
i'll have a look about for the wording of the legislation and post it here, if you like