Fingers On Triggers!

iceage

Now before everyone starts b1tching and moaning and getting their knickers in a twist, this is just an observation....

Is it just me, or is practically every pic and jpeg uploaded by members, and non-members who have posed with their AEG's and GBB's from every event ranging from t4bb, HRTA and to the contractors own website ( my Mcafee doesn't like that site anymore? must ask the lads about that one?) that military display(can't remember the name, shame on me!) and now, the latest IrishAirsoftSuppliers.ie Everyone has fingers on triggers! Now as I said earlier, this is just an observation, so please don't bite my head off..(spoilsport, anally retentive funkilling twong, boring ole moaning git!)

I know that the obvious thing to do when your all "suited, an booted" in all your Airsofter finery, and there just happens to be a camera about, is to strike a pose! and thats cool, but wheres all the safety proceedures guys?

The majority of these pics have AEG's with mag on, so the impression given is that its a live piece, but all these points aside, is it not just good practise to have a fingers off rule? this allows other airsofters to know the condition of your piece i.e ready and safe! Usually with fingers on triggers all sorts of embarrassing things can happen! and also to give the right impression, i.e. we are competant and safety conscious at all times on, and especially off the Airsoft field.

As far as pointing aeg's and GBB's at the camera!! thats another days work guys!!! So ..i thought this a valid point to raise...(iceage taking cover)...let the flak begin!!

And yes, i do own the copyright to the word "twong" it's mine...:D:D

Genghiz Cohen

Are the safety catches on?

ED E

Not that big a deal, but fingers should be off the trigger.

Bout mags, dont look right without them.

LB

Masada

and there was no ammo used a T4BB so no danger., i usually have my finger off the trigger out of habit though.,

kdouglas

as vtec said, there was no ammo loaded or even brought on site at t4bb, however i personally made a point of keeping my finger off the trigger for any photo's that i was in

zero19

I personally haven't had my pic taken with gear but i'd certainly not aim at people or have my finger on the trigger, never aim at anything you don't intend to shoot...

Arcto

I personally think its more comfortable with your finger off running down the side of the reciever, like it were RS.
Anyone else feel that way?

Guess yer all trigger mad!

Masada

Arcto wrote: »

I personally think its more comfortable with your finger off running down the side of the reciever, like it were RS.
Anyone else feel that way?

Guess yer all trigger mad!

yeah i find it uncomfortable to hold my finger on the trigger because you can really rest it there or there or you might pull the trigger so you end up kinda holding it out a bit.,

padmundo

I had my finger off the trigger in all bar the firing squad ones where we were actually shooting at the camera man because we're sound like that! I understand your concern but there were serious safety considerations taken as we were doing a display amongst the public and safety drill was always carried out and bb's were not allowed on site.

bullets

I know they are toys/sporting equipment an all but I tend to always frown or grimace when
I see pics of people when they are directly aiming an AEG or Pistol directly
at the camera. It may sound uptight on my part but its just not something I like seeing.
(regardless if they are empty/full etc)

When I clean my real steel and its dis assembled with the bolt out and magazine out
and there is Zero possibility for it to fire it still drives me nuts if the girlfriend passes
by me and she walks past the barrel.

~B

Alvin T. Grey

TBB pictures were almost all taken after some display or other which consisted of a minute or so of dry firing. Those mags were empty. And yes, the safeties were on. That was an instruction given at the end of the exercise. There were no BBs allowed on site, never mind in magazines. And in between each demo we were not permitted to carry the equipment around. As such it was secured and not played with.

These rules were strictly enforced by us (for safety reasons) and by the venue (Guess they didn't want to foot the bill for respraying a helicopter.):D

Masada

bullets wrote: »

I know they are toys/sporting equipment an all but I tend to always frown or grimace when
I see pics of people when they are directly aiming an AEG or Pistol directly
at the camera. It may sound uptight on my part but its just not something I like seeing.
(regardless if they are empty/full etc)

~B

I had suggested something similar about the t4bb photos but that was purely from a photography point of view (as you cant see the guns if their pointed at the camera) but those involved obviously took a lot of care in making sure everything was safe., i wouldnt be one to kick up a fuss about pointing at the camera though as i doubt it was without the consent of the camerman and was set up so no problems.,
remember the fuss caused when the minister for defense, Willy O'Dea pointed a gun at photographers for a newspaper shot, he got a grilling for that and it was the photographers that asked him to do it.,.,

Arcto

vtec wrote: »

I had suggested something similar about the t4bb photos but that was purely from a photography point of view (as you cant see the guns if their pointed at the camera) but those involved obviously took a lot of care in making sure everything was safe., i wouldnt be one to kick up a fuss about pointing at the camera though as i doubt it was without the consent of the camerman and was set up so no problems.,
remember the fuss caused when the minister for defense, Willy O'Dea pointed a gun at photographers for a newspaper shot, he got a grilling for that and it was the photographers that asked him to do it.,.,

Holy sh1t that was funny. Did ya see the "Willie Gonna Get Ya" t shirts?

Back on topic: This will probably never be an issue at HRTA becuase everyone keeps there masks on inside the play area and allmost 100% take the mag and clear before entering the safe zone. The odd one or two that dont just plain forget so it can be forgiven. Everyone should look too the person on their right and left to make sure they emptied there chamber aswell. Would make good practice.

I.A.S. Ltd.

The photos on our website were taken in a controlled enviroment (ie. no gas, batteries or bb's present and safeties engaged) and for the sake of realism we put our fingers on the triggers. There was no danger whatsoever, it'd like trying to run someone over in a car with no wheels or petrol.

If we had "live" devices then we definately would have shown alot more caution but with an inert device its was simply harmless posing.

But on this point Id like to just say in alot of pictures Iv seen of troops in Iraq, they seem to keep their fingers on the triggers alot too for photos even when not in combat. This I would consider VASTLY more worrying than someone posing with a safe Airsoft gun.

JonAnderton

Agree with Icegae and Bullets point 110%.

Aside from the obvious safety aspect, there’s been a lot of discussion on here about what image is portrayed, particularly when naming the equipment, to the public and whilst we all want to have photos, videos and pictures of our teams and our kit, maybe we should consider what image we are portraying when we post them to an open source such as the internet and that we can still get some cracking shots whilst being responsible at the same time. Bullets point about the ‘aim at the camera shot’ is completely valid and I agree with him totally.

As Vtec said, if you usually have your finger outside the triggerguard, it becomes second nature, muscle memory if you like, so every time you pick up your kit, your finger immediately runs along the side and sits there until needed. Makes me wonder if those who have their fingers in the trigger guard in the aforementioned shots regularly have fingers on triggers. Unless your taking an ‘in action’ shot, it shouldn’t be happening. Whether loaded or not, there’s no need to be touching the trigger unless you intend to shoot. Treat them all as if they were loaded.

Just because other disregard the safety rules, doesn't mean we should.

gandalf

Well as someone who takes alot of photos at skirmishes I have no problem with shots of people pointing their AEG's at me, they make for interesting photos. I would prefer if people didn't have their fingers on the trigger but I know with a majority of the shots I have taken (bar the live game ones) that the safety was on.

TBH with regard to the photos I take it is a case of reality & safety balanced for the best shots possible.

zero19

Two words lads...Willie O'Dea... lol

http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/nov2006/odeagunb.gif

gandalf

Jaysus I hope that wasn't loaded !

Alvin T. Grey

JonAnderton wrote: »

Agree with Icegae and Bullets point 110%.

Aside from the obvious safety aspect, there’s been a lot of discussion on here about what image is portrayed, particularly when naming the equipment, to the public and whilst we all want to have photos, videos and pictures of our teams and our kit, maybe we should consider what image we are portraying when we post them to an open source such as the internet and that we can still get some cracking shots whilst being responsible at the same time. Bullets point about the ‘aim at the camera shot’ is completely valid and I agree with him totally.

As Vtec said, if you usually have your finger outside the triggerguard, it becomes second nature, muscle memory if you like, so every time you pick up your kit, your finger immediately runs along the side and sits there until needed. Makes me wonder if those who have their fingers in the trigger guard in the aforementioned shots regularly have fingers on triggers. Unless your taking an ‘in action’ shot, it shouldn’t be happening. Whether loaded or not, there’s no need to be touching the trigger unless you intend to shoot. Treat them all as if they were loaded.

Just because other disregard the safety rules, doesn't mean we should.

Randy Shugart wrote:

This is my safety _|_

/random machoness off.

Masada

gandalf wrote: »

Jaysus I hope that wasn't loaded !

and to think it was the irish army that handed that to him., seems silly to blame him though, surely they should have known better.,

zero19

I was at the FAS exhibition in cork earlier this year and the Army guys were handing out Styers to kids who would immeadiately point them at friends or randoms passing the stall, i was at another stall a bit away and had it pointed at me at least twice, not good...

iceage

There we go, a mixed bag, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Maybe this is an issue that might be raised at the I.A.A. AGM under the safety guidelines for Airsofting Events/meets?

Unfortunately I am unable to attend and would appreciate if some one could maybe raise this issue. I believe there was someone one who was putting himself forward for the Southern Representative? Maybe he could bring it up om my behalf?

With a serious interest in the sport of Airsoft, and with an ex-military background I hope you can see my interest in this particular subject and from a practical point, you don't put your finger near the trigger unless you intend to fire. And if you are not about to fire, well then it dammed shouldn't be on the trigger! As for ammo and mags...thats all beside the point guys, and you know it, loaded/unloaded magged or undressed its just good handling practice.

As I said earlier, Its important that we give the right impression to all our onlookers this includes other Airsofters, the general public, the media at large and especially those who are just looking for a chance to knock us as so'n'so's waving you know whats around the place!

Utreg

Even if you think/know no bb's/batteries/whatever in the gun, its common sense to always treat it as loaded.

Assumption is the mother of all ****ups...

padmundo

Utreg wrote: »

Even if you think/know no bb's/batteries/whatever in the gun, its common sense to always treat it as loaded.

Assumption is the mother of all ****ups...

No one is arguing against that point. However the pics were staged at a display where we were dry firing and there were no bbs in them.

iceage

thing is, to assume anything is to make an ass out of u and me!! Sorry guys couldn't resist it..:)

Alvin T. Grey

iceage wrote: »

thing is, to assume anything is to make an ass out of u and me!! Sorry guys couldn't resist it..:)

No assumptions were made.

iceage

Alvin T. Grey wrote: »

No assumptions were made.

As I said, couldn't resist the pun, hey...we're all friends here..

Mweelrea

iceage wrote: »

As I said, couldn't resist the pun, hey...we're all friends here..

One big happy family!:D

Alvin T. Grey

Mweelrea wrote: »

One big happy family!:D

If you've ever seen a domestic dispute you'll know just how accurate that can be.;)

Rew

vtec wrote: »

and to think it was the irish army that handed that to him., seems silly to blame him though, surely they should have known better.,

Thats was taken at an ARW display put on for him and the press. The photographer posed the shot not Willie but he should have known better. Whats amazing is that no one got a photo of him hold a huge knife about 2 mins before the gun pic was taken!!

Most airsofters I've seen walk aropund fingers on trigger as they have had no formal training. As for safety's being on, don't know about airsoft guns but I've seen faulty real steel that will still fire with the safety on. The idea of safty on, mag off and finger off the trigger is that it eliminates all chance of an ND.

I saw one lad blow a hole in his AEG box after he pulled the trigger, he's obviously put it away still loaded...

iceage

for those of ya out there who aren't sure, an N.D. is a negligent discharge. i.e. finger on trigger of live/hot piece, squeeze, bang ( i could have sworn I cleared this!!) :eek: Nightmare..

Evolute

iceage wrote: »

for those of ya out there who aren't sure, an N.D. is a negligent discharge. i.e. finger on trigger of live/hot piece, squeeze, bang ( i could have sworn I cleared this!!) :eek: Nightmare..

So maybe all pics with people who have their fingers on the triggers should be edited with a bit at the bottom saying.

This is a display picture made to be as realistic as possible.
There is no danger as the magazine and chamber have been discharged of rounds and the battery has been removed. Or some type of way to let people know its staged.:D

JonAnderton

I don't think there's a problem with fingers on triggers for 'In-action' shots where the photo is obviously taken during a skirmish or on a 'range' and your portraying firing or the kit 'in-action'. If you're showing firing the kit, it would make sense to have your finger on the trigger and selector to fire... as long as its obviously safe to do so.

The annoying thing comes when people are posing for shots, standing with their kit and their fingers are quite comfortably resting inside the trigger guard and the selectors are set to fire... no need for it.

Show professionalism, show proficiency.

I.A.S. Ltd.

You can see all the selectors are set to safe in our pictures except the one where the slide on the M9 is retracted because you shouldnt cock a GBB when its set to safe.