Chemical fuel experts input required Liquid fueled retor motor project info

derry

As this project is classed as a surface reactor motor project it is not a rocket project per say as there is not a desire or intension to fly
but the princibles for the motors are exactly the same so for surface use its called reactor motor and for NASA its called rocket motor just to be splitting hairs

PLEASE NO inputs on puny reactors like ESTRES solid fuel reactors or similar toys with a few grams of push

Please no inputs like I THINK if you mix chemical X with chemical Y you will get a runaway explosion( IF you dont know for sure then its no use ) better to say reference www.balhblah shows that the result from this experment done at this location using chemical of certian ratios mole whatever resulted in this particular affect

I need facts not guesses

Properly calculated chemical equasions with high probabilty results are acceptable facts

I preety well know most all the other types of reactor motors out there and only wish to make this liquid fueled type for my own needs in this time and details which will be outlined below

I wish to develop a simplex liquid fueled reactor motor to put onto RC model twin tunnel hull fast boat just for fun and it can start and stop and relight motror at will

The problems are to do with my prefered choice of liquid fuels which will decide the what I will eventualy endevor to make

The design of the reactor motro will be dependent on the fuel type chosen

The design specs are are for the motor to operate for 15 to 20 seconds in mayby 4 of 5 second bursts or two ten second bursts or one twenty second run depending on the size of the lakes I am at that day

for manovering into position for each run a electric engine will be used that will push boat around at 5mph


The Reactor motor will produce idealy 3 to 6kg of push power preferably 6kg but no more than that as boat will be some 4kg weight all up and will risk to become airborne if to powerfull


The preference for fuel will be localy easly available fuels that dont cost toooooo much

The preference would be to find and use fuels and oxidizer that are liquid and preferably dont require refridgeration or complexity like Liquid OOXXEGEN ( the stars wherever they appear are because the word OOXXEGEN is banned so you get this ****** ) (and the wrong spelling for OXXEEGEN is to show this banning of this word something to with a music concert trademarking the word OOXXEGEN ) so i will often use LOX for short


I would also prefer if possible a mono propellant solution

preference would also be for fuels not to toxic and not toooo shock sensitive
(eg one bump will explode )


Original reasearch with fuels like hydrogen Peroxide H2O2 and silver catalistist shows this H2O2 to be vitualy unavailable in EIRE and at the prefered 60% to 98% purity it would be fairly caustic
5% H2O2 what you get in pharmacy for washing out your mouth is useless

if somebody knows different chime in as its also a potensialy useful oxidizer if you wear sapce suits resisant to H2O2

(More details below with links for the interested to read attached later in a few hours)

Other fuels Like nitro methane a highly oxidized fuel additive for model planes which if your a whizz kid expert at this very complicated fuel could be made to be a mono propelant but at typicaly 100 euro a gallon from model fuel shops is too expensive a solution and more for a NASA budjet
you need 9 times as much nitro in liquid to do a reactor motor compared to other fuels like methoanol but then you need more oxidizer for methonal and it would cost 20 times more to do a nitro methane fuel version in fuel costs compared to a methanol solution and 100 times more than a petrol fueled solution so its extremly expensive at 99% to use
(1% methoanol is manditiry to keep it from becoming shock sensitive )
Nitromethane is pure is very very toxic best avioded but its not so very flameable compared to other fuels but if it ignites is very very powerful compared to other fuels

futher info on wiki

(More details below with links for the interested to read attached later in a few hours when I get home to internet connection)


alchools like methonal and Ethonals are the prefered fuels as they already have a high amount of OOXXEGEN ****** in the fuel especialy methonal which fairly cheap at 10 euros a gallon approx from RC hobby model hobby shops
When I rang them the cheapest was Green Hobby Model 35 claireville road 014928776 www.greenhobbymodel.com
He will sell model fuels of all types and methoinal pure 99% if you wish
the other shops only seemed to sell ready mix wuth oil and nitro mixxed in with the methanol
lennox also sells it but from other threads on this chemistry forum prices seemed steeper than hobby shops and you need to open an account and be a bona fida company but link is here

http://www.lennox.ie/pp/Chemicals_A_to_Z/Chemicals_M_is_for/METHANOL_GR_PLASTIC_2.5L.html

Methanol is toxic and very flamable especialy vapours and will go through exposed skin and will kill or seriuosly maim if accidently drunk so it requires special attension for storage and handling

further info on wiki

Ethanol denatured (deliberatly poisened to be undrinable qualyity )probably mixxed with 5% methanol would also be interesting but dont know a source and dont know costs and is probably only available to medical centres(which means big bucks )
In the USA or Sweden E85 which is car fuel will give you 85% ethonal 15% petrol but thats to far to send away for a gallon of that stuff and you cant send fuel through the normal postal service so until E85 is available in ieire its not looking good for ethanol

E85 and ethonal further info on wiki

Petrol and or Parrifins or Deisiel or Bio Deisel are also interesting but less so as they have no OOXXEGEN ****** on the molicules so I would have to increase the amount of Oxidizer to burn these fuelss but is still a strong contender as these fuels are more like 6 euro's a gallon

further info on wiki

So the plan looks like preference methanol mixxed with suitable oxidizer and like KNO3 salt peterand ignite them as a possible candiditate if it can be found to work????

Either mixxx into fuel direct and inject the methanol fuel mix and salt peterKNO3 and methonal direct into the reactor motor and ignite with mayby a glow plug or similar

problems are will saltpeter KNO3 dissolve in methonal

will the fuel become hyper shock sentitive eg on a small bump explode

or will the fuel explode immeadiatly when you put the KNO3 salt peter into the fuel or for that mater any oxidizer

this info not known
further info on KNO3 salt peter on wiki

Also KNO3 salt peter is a contoled ( loosly or tightly not known ???) substance usualy used for making gun powder and therefore might be a big problem to buy from a local source and I realy dont want to to be sending of to USA on the net for some 1kg of some whacky chemical so prefer a suitable local easy to obtain oxidizer agent if KNO3 is going to be a problem


The other option is to use LOX but then its complicated to buy and or rent a bottle of LOX

The LOX seems not to difficult to use make a suitable recieving container with insulation and fill it and some OOXXEGEN will evaporate as you ready up the boat but not very much
But its my last choice to do as its not cheap judging by prices for a medical bottle for emergency resusation use
But mayby welding LOX is cheaper not sure of prices but also it a big heavy bottle for a small motor

Also connectors and adaptors for connecting to LOX bottle seem to cost the same as the bottle and then the complication of keeping the plumbing from freezing makes LOX les interesing

Other solution like using red humus Nitric acid and Kerosene parrifin like NASA use to do reactor motors are not my cup of tea as the nitric acid bit sounds a bit to toxic and the mixxing of the fuel a bit tricky and especialy the buying of the acid in Eire

I can also look at seeing if at mixxing two agent like methanol and oxiizer inside the reator chamber instead to pre mix the fuels but the premix would be more easy as I would only have one fuel to pump into the reactor chamber and less complications than trying to make plumbing for two liquids to be sprayed into the reactor chamber in correct proportions

I will also look into getting nitros gas as oxidizer but it looks expensive like LOX and another large bottle and I dont know a source in Eire and you need 9kg of nitros to burn !kg of fuel roughly so its a fairly heavy weight solution with a big bottle strapped onto the model boat

further info on nitros oxide on wiki

also connectors and adaptors for connecting to nitros bottle seem to cost the same as the bottle and then the complication of keeping the plumbing from freezing

Its not so interesting that the reactor motor would be less than say half the power of conventional reactors but its better if it exceeds steam reactors as I prefer the smoke and noise affect for the fun side side of it with a chemical fire affect reactor

So any bright spark chemical gurus that know a suitable easy available oxidizer like mayby saop powder brand xyz or similar stuff or easy obtained fairly cheap oxidisers like mayby lithuim percerlartes or salts whatever whatever chime in

please no inputs for solid fuel or hybrid motor stuff or pulse jets as that is not what i want to do at this time
as pulse jets are very large as they get OOXXEGEN ****** from the air and solid fuel motors are not controlable switch on off and hybrids look to be expensive for getting nitros gas

Also the budjet for this project is low more like 200 euro so no expensive solutions as I will already be risking the 300 euro boat for this project


and no I am not gonna tell you which lakes I use but if it works will post up some vidios

I dont expextboat speeds it to exceed 50mph approx if it works which about the same speed as the 7cc glow motor drive did


more links for reactor motors in a few hours local libary enabled wi fi closing now at 1700hours

Derry

http://science.howstuffworks.com/rocket5.htm
explanation of liquid fueled propulsion reactor motors

http://exploration.grc.nasa.gov/education/rocket/bgmr.html
basic education site for reactor motors
folow the links leads to simulators for flight drag motors etc example solid fuel simulator
http://exploration.grc.nasa.gov/education/rocket/rktengperf.html


http://www.nasa.gov/audience/foreducators/topnav/materials/listbytype/Practical_Rocketry.html
Some basics about reactor motors for the novice

http://armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home
excellent site for LOX projects on very large scale originaly use peroxide later kero and LOX
excellent vidios
http://media.armadilloaerospace.com/misc/sas07_high.mpg ...excelent vidio big download

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=jMBOTLJn3FA master blaster rocket
excelent vidio of full sized car with large rocket attached flying 1/2 a mile before crashing and looking like aircraft crash matchwood

http://www.inverseengineering.com/ info on cheapo home brew solid fuel booter from wavin pipes and sugar and salt peter

http://www.inverseengineering.com/Pages/2007/304/304%20Flight.html more info

derry

Man this foum is so slow to open up so I can update this thread

Found from research that pre mixxing hydrazine with methanol into a container or fuel tanklis a real bad no no
seems it gets super shock sensitive so thats no use for me

so i will have to look keeping those two candidites seperate in seperate fuel tanks atnd mixxing it in the reactor chamber
If it possible to find and buy this hydrazinne stuff whatever it is and if its affordadable and not super toxic or dangerous

Reasearching that so will keep you posted

Propylene glycol according to Wiki is shock senitive pity makes a good mono propelant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol_dinitrate

Hydrazine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine

seems can be used as mono propelant somthing like 70% Hydrazine 30 water using catalist makes a reaction probaly steam like peroxide with catalist makes
problem from memory is that its impossible to get outside of nasa or Russia or similar

EDIT LATER ON

OOOOPSSS hydrazine extremly toxic
scratch that




derry

Professor_Fink

Surely a pulse jet engine would do what you need. They are fairly simple to construct, and are liquid fueled. Why bother with the other stuff? A lot of what you want seems to be controled substances. You should avoid these.

Also, 6kg of thrust applied above the waterline will almost certainly make the boat do sumersauts, due to the differential in drag above and below the waterline.

For future reference, it's probably not a good idea to use most of your post to tell people what types of replies you don't want. It puts people off responding.

derry

RE:Professor_Fink

Professor_Fink wrote:

Surely a pulse jet engine would do what you need.....6kg of thrust applied above the waterline will almost certainly make the boat do sumersauts,

You identified one good reason why the pulse option has too many issues
not forgeting that it is very difficult to make a pulse motor start and stop as you wish
and even if you do get hold of a Pulse jet motor with slow tick over possibilties they will still eat fuel at a rate of knots so costing a fortune while lining up craft for its next run
and if they injest water they flame out making them more usable for other RC model aplications like cars or planes where there is no water injesting issues

A reactor motor of 6KG would be probably 1/10 to1/50 the size of a Pulse jet motor typicaly weight for pulsar is one kg for 6kgs push and smaller weight of reator could give 70 times push factor for its weight eg 100 gram reator motor could supply 7000g or 7kg push and the fuel tank can be in the twin hulls keeping CG low and thrust can be nearaly underwater close to water line meaning somersault should be less likey and smaller reator motor could be up front on boat pulling it along and firng hot gasses underneath boats twin hulls to supply extra lift to reduce water drag

I expect fuel consumtion to be collosal for example 1000cc of nitro methane would last ten seconds @ ~10 per litre equals some one euro per second mayby even double so finding replacements which cost less would be a more interesting


nitro methane 99% solutions would use 10 times the same amount of fuel as methanol solutiols and would cost 50 times the cost per second approx than methanol solutions not taking into accont the cost to supply the metahanol, with its own oxide so finding a oxide for methanol that costs similar cost to methanol could make methanol oxide solution only be1/25 the cost of Nitromethane solutions

Also Nitromethane pure is nearly impossible to use or get it to ignite and sustain flame without extrodary high pressures and temperaures and very extremly difficult to obtain outside of Dublin and must be 99% and 1% methanol or it will be shock sensitive so 60% nitro with 40 %methanol and 20% oil lubrication for RC glow motor formula one tunnel hulls is all that is generaly possible to get from most all suitable RC model supply shops which means in reactor motor use without a oxidizer the methanol and oil component will be wasted(not so much so in pulse jet getting oxide from air ) and the costs would be very high high due to high nitro content

If a methanol with KNO3 solution did work for a reactor motor it would probably not work for glow motor as the salt (crystal type of salt peter ) would make ribbons of the piston liner in RC glow motor etc and so has not been pursued by the RC fratenerty generaly

The pluse jet users can get their oxide from air so kerosene and petrol solutions where the fuel has no oxide component gives them good results and methanols and alcohols solutions with typicaly 50% oxide on the fuel chain often just give them massivly extra cost with small increase in power so it less interesting to pursue oxiginated fuels

Anyway having been involved over many years with people who own and use pulse motors of many types and sizes and use all sorts of fuels I am not doing this project to make what already works like pulse motors but also which with incredible 100DB noise would get me banned of the lakes PRONTO if I ran them continous for five minutes so a short 20 second runs or less 10 seconds or five seconds and hopefully less noisy mayby 85 to 90db noise with mayby Rocket motor being nearly imersed into the water plume at the rear as speed buids up (or shadowed by the front pontoons up front) this might help cover up the noisy reactor motor and could keep me amused and give me fun closer to home instead to have to go out to sea on boats from getting chased off lakes from excessive noise complainers
And the duck shooters are often at those lakes where i go might with thier gun shots could keep me from being heard tooo much and coupled with the local gun clubs practice clay pigion sites when out of season its noisy but best to least noisy possible

Often short burst of noise are ignored but contious noisy activity like Jet skis motor cross bikes or excessivly noisy RC glow motor boat activities over long periods give the noise complainers a chance to locate source of noise and ban it
I have seen too many pulse reator motor sites or glow motor tunnel hull boat lake sight lost to this noise affect and nearly impossible nowadays to use pulse jet motor on boats in lots of lakes and every day glow boats are giving way to quiter electric boats so as to keep the lake or river location from being lost for model boat users

And so except you go out to sea and that rusts everythting fast compared to fresh water and requires back up boats and suitable calm sea conditions then forget PULSE JET SOLUTIONS in ireland

As the budget is quite low the cost of importing materials is too expensive so the preference is reasearch first the possible solutions then do the experment which has the best chance to succeed
I know LOX will work for sure but its looks complex and expensive and gettting a suitable LOX bottle and connectors looks to complex


I know high nitro solution could probably be made to work but its expensive fuel not so much power for weight of fuel compared to methanol or petrols and as a fuel in high percentages starting to become toxic and in high percentages difficult to get it to light up and suits internal combustion motors better

I can live with less power bigger heavier reactor motor weight and more fuel consumtion if it is more simple design that uses easy to obtain materials for fuel and and oxideizer from local rc glow fuel hobby shops and simple sources like hardware shops and then preferable pre mixxed into one tank to only require one pump to pump it into reactor chamber and preferably it will ignite with simple glow plugs and not require complex heavy spark coil ignition

Short motor runs of less than 20 secinds should mean that simple sheet metal can take the heat without to have to use exotic metals and prefably not require complexity of liquid cooling systems such as water to keep motor coolkeeping reactor motor costs lowwer mayby even simple pipe tube shape

solid fuel reactors do not give me multible precision start stop abilities period so are non starter

hybrids can give me multible start stop abilities but often lack good start up precision and will do half the run time of a few seconds at very reduced power until they get going so Hybrids seriously lack precision starts and stops which if your on large bodies of water like a large lake or the sea with back up boats might not matter But as much of the places I prefer to use are local to me and are shallow fisherman boot waders wadable easy to recover model boats from rivers or semi closed bays with reeds generaly narrow long stretches like inlets and marshy places so wadder boots do the job without complex back up recovery boats and weeds cusion accidental overruns

If I can find a suitable fuel solution that might require a very small extra boost of extra Oxide from another source like nitros gas or nitro methane or LOX solution that might also work

So for example a nitrate mayby some fertilzer type or some simple washing up powder whatever premixxed into a fuel like Methanol that was still lacking 10% oxide and so required a tri propelant solution making a nitrate metahnol nitros oxide solution that might be acceptable


But if you look the list you will see I have been through the myrads of other soultions and prefer to opt for Liquid fuel soultion to suit my needs

And all this fuel control nonsense in Ireland just to keep the americans happy is a real pain in the butt for us modelers who just want to have fun and often to get these so called controlled fuel they can got easy peasy over the net from the USA that nmakes us control them so a solution if you got lots of money for which me along with many modelers on a shoe string cannot afford these importing solutions but the bad guys have no troble getting this stuff they got money and we modelers havent

If a fuel component can be clobbered together and it works for models then it would start to become available in the local hobby shops and save me the grief to find the materials and I could go of and amuse myself with making my own reactor motors and zipping around like I do with my glow and electric motors

And any way reactor motors are cool

and I need new useful facts and that is the responses I need not conversations about the RC boat clubs sunday outing in the shannon

I am time contrained already wading through umpteen threads on many forums in chemistry that suggest using estres solid fuels etc..... and I arrive at the conclusion world wide there are no real chemists out there only make believe chemists

never a single useful response in moles or matamathamital chemical probailties or even any chemical simulation programs run just lots of ~I would be too scared to try mixxing x and y

so looks like I will have to waste lots of time learning how to find and run suitable chemical program projections because there are no chemists in the planet

but it probably helps prove what I always suspected the internet is a complete waste of time for education or anything that isnt watching movies or getting stoned or similar



derry

derry

example of a VALVED pulse jet in stactic test to start and build and use

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJqkHJ2zWPY

ther exists valveless but they less power but no moving parts

vidio of boat with valveless rector note very slow as valveless only effective at mack 2 speeeds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S67wtlSFE4


and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPiEam_cfWo&feature=related

a motor bike with what think is valvless

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy4KH88tLSY&feature=related


a twin pulse model jet plane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e-Ar7gb4tQ


this one is 120mph power boat using eletric motor

as you can see the run is for a few seconds

figure with a suitable light weight reator would beat them in time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNHm3_STy1M&feature=related




example of solid fuel reator on a model car speeds 80mph each time the smoke starts and stops is each stage of 2 seconds kicking in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ShWzOcac28&feature=related




examples of 4000 euro jet turbine motor and other glow and electric fast boats

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgUU4R6JOuM&feature=related



example of reator motor on X1 model plane taking piggy back with 20 foot wing span 4 engined(100cc) B29 model plane and X1 is realeased does a low fly past ignites the fuel and reaches 200mph in two seconds probably uses solid fuel rubber compond


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtIL_VjBUGo



derry

sdanseo

Just a pertinent point, completely off-topic really. No need for the OOXXXXYGGEN...the word is spelt Oxygen. The variation with an e instead of a y is banned for reasons we aren't allowed speak of.

derry

sdonn_1
thanks I could not belive it when there was loads of stars where the dirty word we should not dare to say should be ********;)
man that sucks big time

Derry

derry

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/P5884.htm

says mixxed with nitromethane will form crysals that are shock sensitive
so not good to include nitromethane model boat or car fuels

Says contact with water makes lots of heat

might be possible to get suffient reaction force from generating steam instead
or make steam first then inject methanol and ignite( if the steam prossess is not using up the oxygen first ) and there is a oxygen rich supply there to use

I havent yet found a good free code chemical simulator
tends to confirm my suspisions that there are no real chemists left
except a few misguided adventourous kids on UTUBE exploding all sorts of chemicals and filming it
unfortunatly I wish strongly to avoid these explosion events so interesting getting the info so I learn what is not a good idea

some examples of rockets
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=I9V6VpoED4A&feature=related bike and rocket 100mph plus
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=-vyOwvEKms8&feature=related 250kph ~150mph bycycle with rocket attached

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=KfzwwpiHC00&feature=related static test of 500 lls 300kgs push LOX rocket motor

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=gyNpWRpsi5s small hobby solid fuel rocket speed mach one

some examples of explosions and stuff

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=-P17As8hOMA CO2 using dry ice explosions

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=-DHUXZzUvKY&feature=related not explosion but anti gravity

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=ihOlO5TLVsM mentos and soda

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=b4cVyaPm8DA&feature=related wine and soda mix

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=YqEK5ECcsDo&feature=related vinagar and soda mix rocket

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=dtY9MRJKldE&feature=related acid and paper make bang


http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=gUw8fb9SnDk&feature=related
potassium chlorate with starch drop of concentrated sulfuric acid neat


http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=c9nDV4ZFn9E&feature=related alcohol and clorine bang

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=FQB6DmnYpPQ&feature=related rocket bottle it works

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=kXeTc-e-dEY&feature=related rubbing alcohol 2 litre bottle simplex rocket it works

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=ETdYu6H0p58&feature=related clorine and brake fluid makes big force fire

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=ggmMu5nyO5g&NR=1 clorine and brake fluid makes big force fire

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=20XSV7YuZD8&feature=related clorine and brake fluid makes big force BANG

http://www.science-tube.com/index.php?c=chemie&section=haupt lots of german experments
but Germany makes chemicals

http://forum.netchemie.de/v2/ Probably ont this german forum when I get the google
translator onto this problem get answers there as
it looks like there are no chemists in english speaking
chemical forums



Derry

Derry

derry

A interesting site for begginers simple easy to do projects

http://www.powerlabs.org/rockets.html

Then this site more complex info

http://www.braeunig.us/space/propuls.htm#mono

It seems that N2O nitros oxide can be a mono propelant less problems with igniting the fuel
I just have to try to find out what metal makes the catilistist bed (hopefully the metal from catalist convertor inside a second hand scrap car exhast system would do the trick)

Then there is this link to succeful project in larger motors gives useful info
too later try a bi propelant solution if mono prop wasnt a runner

http://www.xcor.com/products/engines/2P1_N2O_ethane_rocket_engine.html

I can source N2O but its not cheap eeekkk and the site which was selling it suddly seems to have gone into private mode so you have to ring to get info which is a drag

then its a choice of several fuels
(WARNING absolutly no oil in the fuel or plumbing as OIL and Nitros Oxide mixxed often causes explosion )

I figure a high 60% nitromethane fuel with 40% methanol 0% oil

( WARNING absolutly no oil in the fuel or plumbing as OIL and Nitros Oxide mixxed often causes explosion )

would be a good fuel mix to try

Possibly liquid propane frrom camping stove gas or similar also
not sure at this stage due to oil in lots of stuff issues

Also to be considered is that Nitros Oxide N2O is 300 times larger green house gas than CO2 and that wont make you popular with the tree huggers

There is a good online book on how to make a liquid fuel rocket

http://www.risacher.org/rocket/

Still havent found out the story on mixing Methanol with salt peter


Derry

derry

found this link with youtube on how to take tree stump remover crysals which have saltpeter potassium nitrate and make it pure with cooking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yI-u6gRmd8

hopefully I can send away online to get this product UK or USA if I cant locate saltpeter easily in Ireland

this link shows how to make a small pvc pipe rocket in a few minutes using saltpeter and sugar


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8kG2g8BMJs&feature=related

f your still unsure how to make pure saltpeter another link in three parts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwvwJAGZfMU&feature=related

Still researching the subject but all that interest me is will dissolving saltpeter into methanol or Ethanol or ready available E85( 85% ethanol 15% petrol ) fuel at Maxol garages would safely work and not become unstable shock sensitive fuel so building little saltpeter rockets doesn't interest me

Ethanol is similar to Methanol and E85 is only ~6 Euros a gallon compared to methanol 12 Euros per gallon and as this tight budjet project E85 looks better

Derry

derry

Found a usefull link and motor design i can copy

http://www.firearrows.com/

He does a liquid fuel 80newton motr ~8kg thrust using N2O nitoues oxide and petrol

I can source nitroues oxide in the north of Ireland £6 a kilo

SOB gas supplies in ROI wont even stock the stuff for any use like nitro cars hop up kits

Only the medical stuff which costs a fortune and you need medical reasons to stock the stuff

Typical nanny state government want to protect us and bore us to death

God be with the good old days when The irish actualy knew something about mechanics and chemicals

nowadays the solutions are not in Ireland as the chemistry aviod anything more risky than have classes to teach kids how to boil water for experments

Derry

Professor_Fink

Derry: You're skating on very thin ice regarding the sourcing of dangerous chemicals. Please read the forum charter.