Degree result

oglaigh

This might be a bit strange but is it common practice for businesses to make you prove what you claimed you got in you degree is true(ie show them exam results)?I ask because I know a large number of people who are claiming(falsely) they got firsts or 2.1s on their CVs and are getting jobs on that basis without needing to prove it.
And this is across all types of jobs from finance to engineering to science.

Saint_Mel

oglaigh wrote: »

This might be a bit strange but is it common practice for businesses to make you prove what you claimed you got in you degree is true(ie show them exam results)?I ask because I know a large number of people who are claiming(falsely) they got firsts or 2.1s on their CVs and are getting jobs on that basis without needing to prove it.
And this is across all types of jobs from finance to engineering to science.

Most IT job I've had have requested copies of my qualifications.
Standard practice I would have thought!

AARRRGH

Saint_Mel wrote: »

Standard practice I would have thought!

I don't think it's standard practice actually. I know a few people who have invented qualifications and work experience on their CVs.

I'm still undecided if it's that employers are trusting or lazy...

daveirl

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The_Hustler

The firm in which I'll be working offered me the job and after I'd accepted they requested the college results. I think it is standard practice.

AARRRGH

The_Hustler wrote: »

The firm in which I'll be working offered me the job and after I'd accepted they requested the college results. I think it is standard practice.

I know one company who did this, but they didn't ask to see the actual degree. A fake letter of results faxed to the company was enough.

seamus

I've never had to produce evidence of my qualifications.

I guess it depends on the industry. For some industries, it would be required before they could even start work (say a solicitor's firm). For others, it's only when the person actually sucks at what they're doing that alarm bells might ring - I.T. is a good example. Most areas of I.T. don't necessarily "need" a qualification for someone to be good at it purely because the information is out there, the stakes are relatively low and experience is easy to get. You can't say the same for medicine or law.

oglaigh

daveirl wrote: »

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Its kinda annoying me at this point too. I finished in UCD last year, got a 2.2(not exactly amazing) and am jobhunting now after travelling. I`d say about half the people I know lied about their results and not one were asked for proof so I`m half thinking of doing it myself, not really by choice but if everyone else is etc etc

justfortherecor

Any company worth their salt should be asking for an academic transcript to be attached to the application form at the very least.

dame

oglaigh wrote: »

Its kinda annoying me at this point too. I finished in UCD last year, got a 2.2(not exactly amazing) and am jobhunting now after travelling. I`d say about half the people I know lied about their results and not one were asked for proof so I`m half thinking of doing it myself, not really by choice but if everyone else is etc etc

A 2.2 is an honours degree. Anyway, think of the shame if people found out you were lying about your result.

MonkeyWrench

The only time I have every been asked about my college degree result was my first job out of college. I have never been required to provide a copy of my degree in any place after that as I think experience is more crucial after a few years out of college.

As stated before it might be looked into if the person is relatively crap at their job and their qualifications don't actually match what they have on their cv or said in the interview. It could be used as ammunition if they want to kick someone out ASAP..

oglaigh

Dont really want to start a new thread so I`ll just ask here:)
I applied for one of those "calling all graduates" ads on a jobs.ie and have to go in to the recruitment agency tomorrow. This may sound like a silly question(I`m new to all this ) but should I go in normal clothes or a suit?

daveirl

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oglaigh

daveirl wrote: »

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Cool thanks. Just wanted to make sure

Tiriel

Lying is a horrible trait and it's a small world. If you are caught out by one - words spreads and it would be known in the field of work. I would strongly recommend you be honest - little white lies are one thing - but I wouldn't lie about results.

Tiriel

oglaigh wrote: »

Dont really want to start a new thread so I`ll just ask here:)
I applied for one of those "calling all graduates" ads on a jobs.ie and have to go in to the recruitment agency tomorrow. This may sound like a silly question(I`m new to all this ) but should I go in normal clothes or a suit?

Just 'smart casual'!! Be comfy but not too laid back casual. I suppose neat and tidy is the right way forward! You just want to create a good impression overall - they don't want to recommend someone for a job that made an impression on day 1 that they didn't care..

professore

dame wrote: »

A 2.2 is an honours degree. Anyway, think of the shame if people found out you were lying about your result.

Let's see ....
Choice nr 1: Tell the truth and lose out on a dream job that you are more than capable of doing due to narrow minded employer focussing on the fact that you "only" got a 2.2 and picking someone else who probably lied anyway

OR ...

Choice nr 2: Lie and get the job ... let's face it in most jobs you will have to lie at some point .... anyone in tech will have been economical with the truth when asked about project completion dates or whatever.

Back in the early 90's companies would only interview people with 2.1's, 1's were considered "too academic" and 2.2's were not good enough. So what choice did you have?

Having said that some of the best techies I know either got a pass degree or didn't even finish college. Go figure.

As for the shame ... you'll get over it. Once you get experience your qualifications are largely irrelevant.

Borzoi

oglaigh wrote: »

And this is across all types of jobs from finance to engineering to science.

When hiring I rarely check - because it makes damn all difference to me, it's all about attitude and ability to learn - something that your degree level doesn't tell. Just speaking for myself in an engineering field

AARRRGH

You can easily cover up a 2:2 degree by doing a masters and getting a first...

justfortherecor

What sort of masters allows people in with a 2:2 though?

AARRRGH

justfortherecor wrote: »

What sort of masters allows people in with a 2:2 though?

Well I know IT ones do, perhaps only for the fact hardly anyone in IT wants to do a masters anymore...

nesf

justfortherecor wrote: »

What sort of masters allows people in with a 2:2 though?

I knew of physics masters where there was a 2.2 entry cut off. That was the minimum though, depending on demand it would vary iirc.

Swindon

dublindude wrote: »

Well I know IT ones do, perhaps only for the fact hardly anyone in IT wants to do a masters anymore...

How come?

daveirl

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AARRRGH

Swindon wrote: »

How come?

How come the amount of IT masters students has dropped?

Well most people don't like working in the IT industry, and it would be fair to say the "excitement" of technology and computing died a few years ago.

I'm actually doing an MSc in computer science myself. Only 4 Irish people on my course...

Rabidlamb

From an engineering point of view I've always found the qualification means very little. As the job could be site/workshop based you need someone who's not afraid to get their hands dirty & can get on with rough necked staff.

I had an engineering graduate once, with 1st class honours, who looked stunned when I showed him his work boots & high vis jacket. These guys dont tend to last too long. Some of the best engineers I've worked with only came with certs & diplomas looking for experience. Five years later they dont go back to finish their degrees cause their already on top money.

Now when I get sent CV's for 1st class honours graduates I tend to ignore them unless they've worked in the industry. Masters candidates just make me laugh.

dame

professore wrote: »

Let's see ....
Choice nr 1: Tell the truth and lose out on a dream job that you are more than capable of doing due to narrow minded employer focussing on the fact that you "only" got a 2.2 and picking someone else who probably lied anyway

OR ...

Choice nr 2: Lie and get the job ... let's face it in most jobs you will have to lie at some point .... anyone in tech will have been economical with the truth when asked about project completion dates or whatever.

Back in the early 90's companies would only interview people with 2.1's, 1's were considered "too academic" and 2.2's were not good enough. So what choice did you have?

Having said that some of the best techies I know either got a pass degree or didn't even finish college. Go figure.

As for the shame ... you'll get over it. Once you get experience your qualifications are largely irrelevant.

As has been said before, they might be more than happy to get rid of you if they found out you lied about your result. I'd fire someone who did that (but it wouldn't happen cos I'd check their results first). I mean you wouldn't want a dishonest employee.

It would be even harder to get over the shame if it had caused you to lose your job. Now imagine you had lied to get your first job after college and then been fired from that job because of that lie about your results.
Getting your next job could be even harder.
Do you tell them about your experience working in a similar job?
What do you say when they ask why you left?
What do you say when they ask will that company give you a reference?
Will you make the mistake of lying about your results again?

AARRRGH

I actually don't think they'd get rid of you for lying if you were any good at your job...

I still think people shouldn't be lying though.

professore

dame wrote: »

As has been said before, they might be more than happy to get rid of you if they found out you lied about your result. I'd fire someone who did that (but it wouldn't happen cos I'd check their results first). I mean you wouldn't want a dishonest employee.

It would be even harder to get over the shame if it had caused you to lose your job. Now imagine you had lied to get your first job after college and then been fired from that job because of that lie about your results.
Getting your next job could be even harder.
Do you tell them about your experience working in a similar job?
What do you say when they ask why you left?
What do you say when they ask will that company give you a reference?
Will you make the mistake of lying about your results again?

Any boss who would fire an otherwise good employee for lying about a result because otherwise they would not get an interview would be an idiot. I certainly wouldn't.

If I was fired for that ... I would tell my new prospective employers exactly why I was fired and let them check it with my former bosses.

Also shame and consequences are not the same thing. Shame is your own morals telling you you have done something wrong regardless of the consequences.

professore

daveirl wrote: »

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Certainly was not the case when I went to college ... they failed people without a second thought then. Another problem with grades is a 1 from one course might only be equivalent to a 2.2 from another course.

daveirl

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nesf

professore wrote: »

If I was fired for that ... I would tell my new prospective employers exactly why I was fired and let them check it with my former bosses.

In some industries that wouldn't get you very far.

dame

professore wrote: »

Any boss who would fire an otherwise good employee for lying about a result because otherwise they would not get an interview would be an idiot. I certainly wouldn't.

If I was fired for that ... I would tell my new prospective employers exactly why I was fired and let them check it with my former bosses.

Also shame and consequences are not the same thing. Shame is your own morals telling you you have done something wrong regardless of the consequences.

I would rather have honest employees.

Also some of us actually have morals that wouldn't allow us to lie, for any reason. If the employer only wants to interview and hire people with a certain degree result (their choice), then so be it. Maybe you should have worked harder then.

Somebody in my class failed (not me). Plenty of people only got pass degrees (again, not me). I don't think Irish universities are afraid of failing people. Saying that is just more of "back in my day..."

boomshackala

Be honest
Market yourself as the person you are
Push your own unique points
Get the job that will make you happy!

lukin

I'm convinced the college you got your degree from matters a lot too.

leeroybrown

professore wrote: »

Any boss who would fire an otherwise good employee for lying about a result because otherwise they would not get an interview would be an idiot.

I would say that some employers would take being lied to badly.

daveirl wrote: »

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I definitely agree. The quality of the knowledge that a lot of people have coming out of undergraduate and particularly taught postgraduate courses here can be extremely poor in a lot of cases. If someone gets a 1.1 and knows their degree area well then this will come across in a well run interview.

daveirl wrote: »

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Agreed. I'm aware of situations where results were deliberately marked upwards to conceal a high failure rate. I've seen first year failure rates statistics for core science subjects that would scare a lot of departments into dropping the bar to keep numbers.

chump

nesf wrote: »

I knew of physics masters where there was a 2.2 entry cut off. That was the minimum though, depending on demand it would vary iirc.

A 2.2 in physics is the 2.1 of those business courses.
Most people get the 2.2

nesf

chump wrote: »

A 2.2 in physics is the 2.1 of those business courses.
Most people get the 2.2

Indeed.

justfortherecor

Most major employers leave the checking of degree results until after they have made you an offer.

They outsource 'background checks' to companies such as Kroll who go into serious detail sometimes when checking out the background of a new employee. If they find something that doesn't match with the info you gave them during the application process, especially something as fundamental as your degree result, they can cancel your contract with immediate effect.

One funny example I can recall is a friend who got a job with a major bank in London. He got the job and was chatting with his new boss over a few drinks after finalising his contract. His boss welcomed him on board but asked him to take it easy on the drinks that night and avoid lawnmowers on the way home.
Turned out they had discovered his social networking site during their background check and found some photos of him drunkenly ridin a sit-on lawnmower during rag week!

jdf

I have never been asked what I got in my degree. I do have a prepared answer though "do you ask your doctor what he got in his degree?"

DublinWriter

dublindude wrote: »

You can easily cover up a 2:2 degree by doing a masters and getting a first...

Masters Degrees are not graded. You either pass or you don't.

daveirl

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jdf

Or even firsts...

Methinks it depends on the college.

jdf wrote: »

I have never been asked what I got in my degree. I do have a prepared answer though "do you ask your doctor what he got in his degree?"

What do you call the ex-medicine student who passed with the lowest marks? Doctor!

DublinWriter

daveirl wrote: »

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100%. Same as a PhD. You either get it or you don't.

If I saw someone coming in with a MSc/MA (hons) on their CV, I'd be doing some serious checks.

AARRRGH

DublinWriter wrote: »

Masters Degrees are not graded. You either pass or you don't.

WTF?! Is this true? I've been working my ass off to get a First in my MSc!

Can anyone else confirm this?

nesf

DublinWriter wrote: »

100%. Same as a PhD. You either get it or you don't.

If I saw someone coming in with a MSc/MA (hons) on their CV, I'd be doing some serious checks.

Would there be grades in taught Masters maybe?

*shrugs*

Slydice

I have a friend who got a 2.1 in a taught masters degree.

I think that it depends on the institution as to whether the research masters degree is graded or not.

rain on

It's completely normal for taught masterses to be graded. I have an MA and am working on an MBS and they're both graded, in fact everyone I know who's done a taught masters (MA, MSc, MBS) has come out with a graded result.